The "Stay faithful to the design" philosophy won't last, precedent is already there

[Noxina]

There is a game for you, and people who share your opinion - retail.

For me, and people like me, classic is a welcome change in pase. I don't mind having to swing at mobs in low lvl zones to level up my weapons if I decide that I want to try something else later on.
As someone who mained a rogue in Vanilla, and will do so in Classic aswell. I will stick to daggers most of the game. IF I then get the choice to pick up a really good 1h sword, I have to weigh it "Do I want to spend a couple of hours to skill this up, for a dps gain and a playstyle change? Or could I just stick to daggers, and do just fine?" (this is if they reimplement frontstabbing, as on the demo, people couldnt frontstab..).

It is all these small things that make the classic experience the way it is/was. So many choices you have to make.
Let's take talents as an example: as a rogue there are several ways to go about the talents, in the end you will most likely end with the exact same setup, but the way there could change your playstyle a bit in the choices you made.
So you ran around and thought about the talents while leveling, making choices.

[Xilurm]

Weapon skills are part of the RPG feel.

[The Stormbringer]

They already took out wall-jumping, though.

[Noxina]

They already took out wall-jumping, though.

Yeah, seems they fixed some bugs which actually changes stuff.. Like fronstabbing wont be a thing in Classic it seems, which makes daggers 100% useless while leveling.

(frontstabbing: bug where if you strafed fast enough back and forth, the mob would "lagg behind" and you'd be able to Backstab while being in front, due to it moving slower than you, making combat daggers on of the highest dmg output lvling specs)

[Deficineiron]

Yeah, seems they fixed some bugs which actually changes stuff.. Like fronstabbing wont be a thing in Classic it seems, which makes daggers 100% useless while leveling.

(frontstabbing: bug where if you strafed fast enough back and forth, the mob would "lagg behind" and you'd be able to Backstab while being in front, due to it moving slower than you, making combat daggers on of the highest dmg output lvling specs)

if you run leveling instances primarily or only, you can make a very effective backstab build, however (at lower level, haven't tried higher). 8 pts in combat and you have 30% backstab crit, + opportunity with 20% damage, then go into assass. for 5% more crit and 30% crit bonus dmg

tanks will definitely appreciate the practice with taunting targets back.

[Holtzmann]

Yeah, seems they fixed some bugs which actually changes stuff.. Like fronstabbing wont be a thing in Classic it seems, which makes daggers 100% useless while leveling.

(frontstabbing: bug where if you strafed fast enough back and forth, the mob would "lagg behind" and you'd be able to Backstab while being in front, due to it moving slower than you, making combat daggers on of the highest dmg output lvling specs)

Was that in Vanilla? I was under the impression that was something that only happened in private servers.

[Noxina]

if you run leveling instances primarily or only, you can make a very effective backstab build, however (at lower level, haven't tried higher). 8 pts in combat and you have 30% backstab bonus, + opportunity with 5 more, then go into assass. for 15 more, etc.

tanks will definitely appreciate the practice with taunting targets back.

Instances is a horrible way to level though, isn't it?

[Deficineiron]

Instances is a horrible way to level though, isn't it?

if the only possible goal is get to max level as fast as possible, it is horrible.

It is, however, possible to level in vanilla by any number of ways if one enjoys what one is doing. perhaps a player enjoys instances and doesn't care about 60, or has a 60 or whatever. vanilla wasn't raid or die. what classic is remains to be seen, the health/mana regen substantially speeds up outdoor leveling, fore xample.

I know it is different now but in vanilla and even tbc pre-2.3, leveling was the primary game for most players and was a sub-game in and of itself. it was designed to give players a great deal of freedom in how they chose to level - at that point blizzard wasn't so overtly rewarding the 'right way' and penalizing the 'wrong ways.'

[Noxina]

Was that in Vanilla? I was under the impression that was something that only happened in private servers.

Hmm, not 100% sure to be honest. My memories might be a bit wrong after all these years. I was a total noob back in Vanilla and had no clue what I was doing, but I know I've done frontstabbing, but it might have been on a private server a couple of years later when re-living the experience :thinking:

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if the only possible goal is get to max level as fast as possible, it is horrible.

It is, however, possible to level in vanilla by any number of ways if one enjoys what one is doing.

Sure is.

I remember I spent about 6 months to get to 60 the first time. Because I spent way too much time PVPing, which gave zero experience.

[Deficineiron]

Hmm, not 100% sure to be honest. My memories might be a bit wrong after all these years. I was a total noob back in Vanilla and had no clue what I was doing, but I know I've done frontstabbing, but it might have been on a private server a couple of years later when re-living the experience :thinking:

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Sure is.

I remember I spent about 6 months to get to 60 the first time. Because I spent way too much time PVPing, which gave zero experience.

by modern/retail design/thinking, you leveled the wrong way, yet I assume you enjoyed it.

I have leveled a number of ps chars. none have even reached max, but I have done an awful lot of instances. no low-level bracket pop, unfortunately....for me, personally, max level means an entirely more structured gear ladder which I have very little interest in pursuing, vs other possible goals, with my available time.

[Deleted]

If anyone wants to play game stripped of all its depth, look no further than BfA. MMORPG is not your genre.

Weapon skills are part of the RPG feel.

This. It also adds to depth of game. Small things like that might seem meaningless, but they added to game play.

[Noxina]

by modern/retail design/thinking, you leveled the wrong way, yet I assume you enjoyed it.

I have leveled a number of ps chars. none have even reached max, but I have done an awful lot of instances. no low-level bracket pop, unfortunately....for me, personally, max level means an entirely more structured gear ladder which I have very little interest in pursuing, vs other possible goals, with my available time.

Yeah absolutely. And I will do the same thing now in Classic. Level at a slow pase and just enjoy it all over again.

[Trend]

Activision-Blizzard lost $10 Billion in a little over a more than a week. It was not a dip, it was a crash. They were in dept already for acquiring King.

Double the loss if you go back to early October 2018. From $85 down to $55.

That's a huge hit, and yes it affects Blizzard's cash flow. They need money like yesterday, essentially. When investors cashed out, they removed money from Activision-Blizzard. The difference becomes dept, which could be paid off easily -- except Activision-Blizzard is already in debt.

Yikes!

There are a lot of good online resources if you want to understand how corporate finances work and how a stock price correlates (or doesn't) with operational accounting.

Just do some Google searches and you'll easily double everything you know about the markets in under 30 seconds!

[Heathy]

its not going to be the same for one simple fact, computers today are 10x faster than the crap that we were playing the game on back then.

4:3 aspect ratios
15 fps in combat
real bad inet, think i had 256kb dsl then, it wasn't exactly uncommon for random ppl to DC all raid.

playing the game at 60fps at 1080p on 90mb fibre. yeah it won't even be close.

[anon5123]

You really believe Blizzard is going to keep repeating "vanilla is vanilla! 1.12!" as they have been doing, and then make it NOT vanilla and NOT 1.12? They specifically stated that they're doing this as a sort of preservation project, so I don't see why they would significantly change it, because then the "preservation" would be broken.

Shoo, doomsayers. I'm not sure why you're so angered and scared at other people enjoying a game that you don't.

[Demise_]

OP, you raise good points, but I have to disagree. Weapon skill mechanic is fine, doing stuff like training a weapon invests you into a character, and need to thing the herd of warriors some how.

Yes classic is not a perfect game. No one likes leveling weapon skills, no one likes spending 30min-hour making a group. No one likes organizing a 40man raid... and now we are back at retail with raid finders

[Lochton]

I think the point here is, these changes happened over time as the old school community experienced the original, and then iterated on it.

Let people experience Classic as it was, then in time we can discuss changes.

This is basically where I'm seated with it. For now, there was asked for classic. Let us write one chapter at a time.

[Deficineiron]

You really believe Blizzard is going to keep repeating "vanilla is vanilla! 1.12!" as they have been doing, and then make it NOT vanilla and NOT 1.12? They specifically stated that they're doing this as a sort of preservation project, so I don't see why they would significantly change it, because then the "preservation" would be broken.

Shoo, doomsayers. I'm not sure why you're so angered and scared at other people enjoying a game that you don't.

I think this is likely, yes. I think this is a money project, not a sort-of preservation project.

I think the classic gaming experience is going to be similar to the authentic diablo experience they promised DI will deliver. I assume you believe the authentic diablo experience promise they made?

Do you have anything from them about the health/mana regen rates in the demo?

The the only 'vanilla is vanilla' explanation/excuse I have seen is 'it is a demo.'

[Deficineiron]

They specifically went into detail on how they planned to tweak the rogue energy regeneration rates so that they will mirror Vanilla's system. I doubt they would do that without tweaking health/mana as well.

Obviously to each their own, take it with a grain of salt, some third cliche here, and all that. But, based on the Blizzcon panel alone, it appears as though they're going for authenticity as far as mechanics go.

thanks for your reply. did they acknowledge that health/regen was wrong and wasn't supposed to be the way it was in the demo? it seems like a simple thing to have simply gotten right in the first place.....

[Mosotti]

So why are you comparing WoW classic with a shitty game from another company? Have you even listen to the Blizzcon panel about their efforts to restore the game? Why all this paranoia?