Let's compile links of max DPS spreadsheets

[garicasha]

There's so many caveats to get apples-to-apples comparisons, but I want to at least get within an order of magnitude of the power of different specs. I'll also take links to actual vanilla WoW screenshots on Patchwerk and throw them in the spreadsheet as well. Starting baseline:

--6-minute Patchwerk fight
--No Naxx gear, legendaries, or AQ gong items
--Document every buff and consumable it requires to get that DPS (Manual Crowd Pummelers for feral druids, mana runes for balance druids, etc.)
--Most favorable race
--Most favorable raid comp (e.g. Horde gets Windfury in their group)
--We'll ignore threat (for now)
--I'll make a google spreadsheet for damage using 0 debuff slots, 1 debuff slots, and 2 debuff slots

Debuffs on Boss, I need these fact-checked:
Sunder Armor
Thunderfury
Deep Wounds
Thunderclap ?
Gift of Arthas?
Curse of Elements
Curse of Recklessness / Demo Shout (did the AP reduction stack)?
Curse of Shadow
Improved Shadowbolt?
Shadowburn?
Ignite
Fireball?
Scorch?
Winter's Chill?
Faerie Fire
Insect Swarm?
Nightfall
Hunter's Mark
Shadow Weaving
Mind Flay?
Shadow Word: Pain?
Hemorrhage?

Buffs:
Power Word: Fortitude
Mark of the Wild
Arcane Intelligence
Battle Shout
True Shot Aura
Leader of the Pack
Blessing of Kings
Blessing of Might
Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer / Warchief's Blessing (?)
Spirit of Zandalar

Fengus' Ferocity
Mol'dar's Moxie
Slip'kik's Savvy

Elixir of the Mongoose
(Other elixirs TBA)

Grilled Squid
(Other food to be added)

(Flasks to be added)

I also don't know off the top of my head what the optimal specs were (like warlock was 30/21 something wasn't it?) so I'll just list all the specs

Warrior:
Prot (Threat-per-second):
Fury:
Arms:

Paladin:
Prot (threat-per-second):
Ret:

Shaman:
Elemental:
Enhancement:

Hunter:
Beast Mastery:
Marksman:
Survival:

Rogue: 1074, see post 3.
Combat:
Assassination:
Subtlety:

Druid:
Feral (bear): According to Taladril's spreadsheet (bottom), a Tauren Druid could do 1213 threat / second in T2.5 gear
Feral (cat):
Balance:

Warlock:
Affliction:
Destruction:
Demon Mastery:

Mage:
Fire:
Frost:
Arcane:

Priest:
Shadow:


I'll start with this spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...E6Hub/pubhtml#

Results:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Screenshots:
Patchwerk:
https://youtu.be/pS1zaSjdqsA
Lilos does 1200 DPS as fury

Noth:
https://imgur.com/a/7PvhXDW
Rogue Rogue Rogue Warrior Rogue Warrior Mage Warrior Mage Mage Warrior Mage Mage Warlock Shadow Priest Hunter

Grobbulus with a warlock on top:
https://imgur.com/a/aRZYBWU

[Zulatomten]

What's the point in this?
All this whould be diffrent on whichever private server you test it on.
It's very likely none of this be representative of WoW:Classic once it goes live.

[garicasha]

Ok, according to this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

A rogue with
Ancient Qiraji Ripper (Crusader, Instant Poison 6)
Ravencrest's Legacy (+15 agility, IP6) (Absurdly optimistic as this is the reward from banging the AQ gong.)
Striker's Mark
Deathdealer's Helm
Prestor's Talisman of Connivery
Deathdealer's Spaulders
Deathdealer's Vest (+4 stats)
Belt of Never-Ending Agony
Deathdealer's Leggings
Deathdealer's Boots
Qiraji Execution Bracers (+9 strength)
Gloves of Enforcement (+15 agi)
Cloak of Firemaw (+3 Agi)
Signet Ring of the Bronze Dragon
Band of Accuria
Hand of Justice
Drake Fang Talisman

Human, with Fortitude, Mark of the Wild, Battle Shout, True Shot Aura, Leader of the Pack, Elixir of the Mongoose, Grilled Squid, Blessing of Kings, Blessing of Might, Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer, Fengus' Ferocity, Mol'dar's Moxie, and Spirit of Zandalar can do

1074.83 DPS with a 19/26/5 build. (Which adds up to 50, but didn't toons get 51 talent points?)

The spreadsheet is interesting because it has both the name of a popular private server in it as well as changelogs from 2006, so it was at least based on actual vanilla.

I want to change out the off-hand for the second-best item (that's not from the Timeless Cache) but I need someone that knows the details of rogues way better than I do.

[chrisnumbers]

The spreadsheet is interesting because it has both the name of a popular private server

Be careful with that.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ate-servers***

there should be no reason to discuss, call by name, link to, or anything else that has to do with private servers.

[Deleted]

Assume any data taken from private servers is wrong. It is similar to actual data, but not accurate.

[Floopa]

What's the point in this?
All this whould be diffrent on whichever private server you test it on.
It's very likely none of this be representative of WoW:Classic once it goes live.

why? it's just numbers.

[Echocho]

How would we possibly get this information? Classic isn't out yet and there's no documentation regarding all this stuff for vanilla.

[garicasha]

I've continued searching a little every day. It's been tough to find balance druid info but using google's custom search date filter at least when I find something I know it's actually from vanilla. (1/1/2004 to 12/1/2006 if you want to avoid patch 2.0)

One website listed this for Balance Druid AQ40 BiS: Note that they have to be tailors for bloodvine and since balance druids got no spell hit from talents their DPS in raids before more spell hit items were available is especially low.

Lok'amir il Romathis
Royal Scepter of Vek'lor

Mish'undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer
Amulet of Vek'nilash
Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal
Bloodvine Vest
Cloak of the Devoured
Rockfury Bracers
Dark Storm Gauntlets
Eyestalk Waist Cord
Bloodvine Leggings
Bloodvine Boots
Ring of the Fallen God
Ritssyn's Ring of Chaos
Neltharion's Tear
Briarwood Reed

Here's a hunter PoV on Patchwerk that is surprisingly high resolution. Sadly there's no DPS meter, but the guy's chat log is spamming his window with all the hits from Patchwerk on the tanks so you can see those really clearly. Also they have Patchwerk at 3% when he enrages at 7 minutes so the fight definitely goes the distance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InrowKVl0Mk

[Storfan]

How would we possibly get this information? Classic isn't out yet and there's no documentation regarding all this stuff for vanilla.

Assuming classic will use the same numbers in regards to attack tables, damage values etc then what's the problem with using old sheets from vanilla, or even private servers for that matter? As far as I know, the only currently contested points regarding this would currently be:

- Proc rates for various items. Some items simply wasnt tested enough in vanilla to know them for sure.
- 8.6% vs 9% base miss for melee attacks.
- Linear vs exponential curve of weapon skill in the ranges of 300-315
- (some) debate regarding 310 being the cap vs 315 (although most seem to agree 315 to be the actual one).

[Schattenlied]

why? it's just numbers.

Because they can have inconsistencies, for example on that one big Pserver that got this classic ball rolling, Paladin's consecrate scaled with attack power very aggressively, it ain't supposed to scale with AP at all.

[Echocho]

Assuming classic will use the same numbers in regards to attack tables, damage values etc then what's the problem with using old sheets from vanilla, or even private servers for that matter? As far as I know, the only currently contested points regarding this would currently be:

- Proc rates for various items. Some items simply wasnt tested enough in vanilla to know them for sure.
- 8.6% vs 9% base miss for melee attacks.
- Linear vs exponential curve of weapon skill in the ranges of 300-315
- (some) debate regarding 310 being the cap vs 315 (although most seem to agree 315 to be the actual one).

How about resistance and armor values on bosses? That has a huge impact on DPS.

[Storfan]

Because they can have inconsistencies, for example on that one big Pserver that got this classic ball rolling, Paladin's consecrate scaled with attack power very aggressively, it ain't supposed to scale with AP at all.

The important tidbit here being past-tense. I believe it doesnt anymore on any (serious) private, blizzlike-vanilla servers. Due to the amounts of research having been done the past 10-or-so years the current day 2018-private servers are alot more accurate than the original private server Mangos-core derived from TBC 2.0.

How about resistance and armor values on bosses? That has a huge impact on DPS.

I was under the impression that these where already known as a matter of fact due to extensive testing done back in the day. I could ofcourse be wrong.

[Hottage]

Judgement of Wisdom can increase DPS output duration for mana consuming classes.

[Deleted]

There is a video from vanilla wow where fury warrior did 1550 dps on patchwerk,warriors were THE best dps with bis gear

[Storfan]

There is a video from vanilla wow where fury warrior did 1550 dps on patchwerk,warriors were THE best dps with bis gear

Lilos actually did 1235 DPS on Patchwerk. The 1550dps is a mis-quote. 1550 is where he peaked with Deathwish/Recklessness. Even still, impressive numbers for its time.



EDIT: I'd like to add that the record has been beaten on private vanilla servers now.

[garicasha]

Geez wasnt 1200 DPS Sunwell levels?

[Storfan]

Geez wasnt 1200 DPS Sunwell levels?

Nah, more like T5-content levels. As a warrior in TBC I would be doing about 2k dps on Brutallus in Sunwell. Our Glaive rogues would be around 2.4k dps iirc. You have to remember that Vanilla had absolutely REDICULOUS worldbuff and consumable stacking far more than TBC ever did.

[Mahogany]

These spreadsheets list idols for druids and librams for Paladins?? That was TBC not vanilla - great research guys!

[Bigbazz]

The spreadsheet model of doing things is a really primitive way of estimating dps compared to tools like simcraft, Vanilla theorycrafting was super primitive too. TBC theorycrafting was also primitive, people were still figuring how the game worked out when the WOTLK 3.0 prepatch was on the PTR, of course people had a good general idea but it was nothing like how fast people cling on to the inner workings of the game today.

Geez wasnt 1200 DPS Sunwell levels?

If you had a full BIS level raid with optimised consumables/cooldown usage in Sunwell you're looking at closer to 3000 dps+, on progression 1700-2400 dps.



This is a good example video, though it's not nearly a full BIS raid and of course some classes aren't represented. A Warglaive Fury Warrior given the benefit of the right buffs/group would put out incredible dps but Warglaive Fury Warriors were relatively rare and the best comps preferred just a single Arms Warrior (Not amazing personal dps but 4% physical damage debuff) while group boosting the hunters, being boosted by raid comp in TBC was crucial for personal dps.

[Mahogany]

MAIN DEBUFFS

1.Sunder Armor
2. Thunderfury
3. Thunderfury (Yes it used two slots)
4. Curse of Elements
5. Curse of Recklessness
6. Curse of Shadow
7. Improved Shadowbolt
9. Nightfall

Up next are more raid dependant debuffs

10. Scorch / Winter's Chill (We had all mages playing the same spec to reduce debuff count)
11. Ignite (if you had fire mages)
12. Shadow Weaving

So that leaves 4-5 debuff slots leftover for other things

Hard hitting bosses required Thunder Clap
But after that we kinda gave everyone a chance, so on some fights warlocks could get corruption up, on others we let warriors have deep wounds etc...