Pushing Mythic+ is pointless....?

[Deja Thoris]

It might be fun if you're X spec that is fun to play in mythic+. For anyone that can't pull 30k+ aoe dps its awful for 90% of the run.

You spoke about fun and challenging then fixated on the rewards.

It's a garbage thread.

[Autoriot]

I liked M+ during Legion and I didn't have a premade group to run with and wasn't playing one of the strong classes for any role. Towards the end of Legion however, I stopped caring about the loot and stopped caring about pushing for a higher score, not sure what changed, maybe it was knowing the gear reset was coming next.

My level of motivation seems to have carried over to BfA where I really don't care to do any M+ other than my weekly 10. I don't care to farm m+ or organize a group to push it, and I especially don't care to pug it again.

I wish they brought back Challenge Mode dungeons from MoP and WoD. They were fixed ilvl and difficulty, sure some classes were better than others but you could get them all done with just about any setup and usually it was with a group of friends. They rewarded mounts, titles, and unique transmog.... you know fixed and obtainable, well-earned rewards, instead of more pulls on the RNG slot machines for loot that will get replaced next raid by normal difficulty gear and catch up mechanics. The only bad thing about challenge modes is that people could buy carries for them, but what can't you buy a carry through these days?

Edit: Forgot to mention that there was way less repetition in challenge modes too. Sure you might run the dungeon a bit and get silver, then fine tune for gold, but once you got that you were done and moved on to the next dungeon. Also if you wiped or did something stupid early on, you could just reset it and start over (without being punished). No RNG keystones, no lame affix combo weeks. It was just pick a dungeon, practice, and perfect it.

[Mardux]

Mythic plus is only for dk's, dh's and rogues. Other classes are useless!

Maybe if you're trying for world firsts or pushing close to +20s. There isnt a class or spec that can't pull their weight in a 15 if they have the gear and skill to run 15s.

Sure, some specs have it a little easier, but pretended that a class is useless if it isn't meta just shows that you are part of the problem.

[NeVeRLiFt]

I don't like Mythic+ for me it is like a rip off of Diablo 3 with the Rift system (timer, suffix/prefix named/rares/bosses have) and even the Azerite system seems to mirror the Paragon system used in Diablo 3 now.

[amaze123]

Still more fun than everything else in the game.

[Saverem]

I think it's a fun challenge to do...except for weeks like this one when it's not fun at all and you only do 1 +10 for the chest and that's it.

[Lazel]

For ever level above +10 there should be an added chance for extra loot in the weekly chest. 20% per level might be good.
So a +15 = 2 guaranteed loots in weekly chest.
And a +20 = 3 guaranteed loots in weekly chest.

and so on.

Yeah no. M+ is like rbgs for pvp, require no skill compared to raiding and both brackets are filled with people thinking they are good at the game. You should be glad it gives the current rewards to begin with.

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Maybe if you're trying for world firsts or pushing close to +20s. There isnt a class or spec that can't pull their weight in a 15 if they have the gear and skill to run 15s.

Sure, some specs have it a little easier, but pretended that a class is useless if it isn't meta just shows that you are part of the problem.

Some specs , sometimes classes as whole are useless in certain parts of the game, if you are denying that fact you're delusional. Thinking anyone is going to take a ret over a dh/dk/monk/rogue/warrior just because the guy is skilled is another joke.

[Aphrel]

Yeah no. M+ is like rbgs for pvp, require no skill compared to raiding and both brackets are filled with people thinking they are good at the game. You should be glad it gives the current rewards to begin with.

Tbh, im struggling alot more in m+ than in mythic raids. Mythic+ needs more rewards, its stupid to have a feature with infinetly scaling difficulty yet cap the rewards as low as heroic raiding. Difficulty wise, a +15 is comparable to early/mid mythic raid bosses. a+20 is definetly comparable to mythic ghuun in difficulty.
Given that ppl on average aquire 2-3 items per week from a fullclear of mythic uldir i dont think its unreasonable that highend mythic+ runners should be able to get similarly rewarded for the same effort (if not more effort).

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Some specs , sometimes classes as whole are useless in certain parts of the game, if you are denying that fact you're delusional. Thinking anyone is going to take a ret over a dh/dk/monk/rogue/warrior just because the guy is skilled is another joke.

And if ppl can pick between a 385 rogue with 1500io score and a 380 rogue with 1200 io score they will most likely pick the 385 rogue aswell. This doesnt make a 380 rogue unviable for the content, it just means there was a better option to choose from.
Whos going to take what isnt whats being discussed, its wether a class is viable to clear somthing. Wich tbh it is if we are talking about a +15 still.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Feats of strength

[Starscream101]

Hey..

I've been trying to find interesting and challenging stuff to do outside weekly raiding now that we have Uldir on farm...and I'm struggling.

Mythic+ caps at heroic uldir level gear without upgrading, and there is really no reason to go above mythic 10 once per week (you just get more loot that you probably can't use).

As it is right now, I run one mythic 10 a week for a dissapointing weekly cache reward every Tuesday, and then I never have any reason to go into Mythic+ again. Why aren't the rewards for pushing higher mythic+ good?

To me what you want to do is the old challenge mode they should of left that in and stopped with all this mythic + gearing and titan forge and all the random drops and hope to get a random titan or wf and then have the random right stats oh and hope to have the random socket. I like the old way did a heroic or raid it dropped you knew you had best in slot time to move on to another piece of gear. I all so think Mythic + gear ruined how you gear in PvP too.

[Rammus]

Tbh, im struggling alot more in m+ than in mythic raids. Mythic+ needs more rewards, its stupid to have a feature with infinetly scaling difficulty yet cap the rewards as low as heroic raiding. Difficulty wise, a +15 is comparable to early/mid mythic raid bosses. a+20 is definetly comparable to mythic ghuun in difficulty.
Given that ppl on average aquire 2-3 items per week from a fullclear of mythic uldir i dont think its unreasonable that highend mythic+ runners should be able to get similarly rewarded for the same effort (if not more effort).

I concur with your general idea and it is reasonable, but without any focus on 5man class balance this can never pass.

[klaps_05]

The extra change of loot is what justifies it, but to be honest, I wish they kept the amount of items dropping the same, but increase the chance for TF. Right now, in Uldir there is ONE cloth bracer - ONE! With versa and doggo mastery...At 385 base, yes, its better than the 370 base from m+, but its not better than the 395 crit haste i got from AD.

M+ currency would be a welcome change, allowing us to buy stuff by just farming high keys, but I would really like for raids to get back to dropping all kinds of itemization options, not just one...

[HuxNeva]

They have always been stingy with M+ loot for fear of harming raiding.
I think it is fine.
You can run it for fun, but you're not punished if you don't.
You might get an upgrade once in a blue moon, but nothing that will make a significant impact.

[Deleted]

If M+ is pointless, then what is raiding?

At least there's variety and weekly changes to M+.

[HuxNeva]

I concur with your general idea and it is reasonable, but without any focus on 5man class balance this can never pass.

It is open ended, so unless you homogenize all the classes/specs, the higher you go there will always be some that become more advantageous and later turn mandatory.
For now they try to make it so any comp can complete the reward cap difficulty (currently +10), some more easily than others obviously. Beyond that, all bets are off.

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To me what you want to do is the old challenge mode they should of left that in and stopped with all this mythic + gearing

Challenge mode was an abysmal failure compared to M+, catering only to a tiny audience.
M+ is the first real alternative PvE endgame since the beginning of WoW.

[nlc]

Tbh, im struggling alot more in m+ than in mythic raids. Mythic+ needs more rewards, its stupid to have a feature with infinetly scaling difficulty yet cap the rewards as low as heroic raiding. Difficulty wise, a +15 is comparable to early/mid mythic raid bosses. a+20 is definetly comparable to mythic ghuun in difficulty.
Given that ppl on average aquire 2-3 items per week from a fullclear of mythic uldir i dont think its unreasonable that highend mythic+ runners should be able to get similarly rewarded for the same effort (if not more effort).

I think the problem is the gear rewards for M+ are weighted too much towards the bottom end as well as not differentiating between the easy and hard dungeons. If good players are not spending hours wiping to try clear a dungeon at a certain level for the first time then it should not award mythic raid quality loot. There's also the problem that M+ has no lockout on end of dungeon loot.

I think it could be solved like this: Remove end of dungeon loot completely. Rescale the weekly chest rewards so that very high keys, completed in time have a chance to give 385 baseline loot. Each unique dungeon completed contributes a 30% chance to award loot at the appropriate item level from that dungeon. E.G. completing 5 +15 ADs only contributes a 30% chance to get loot from that dungeon but a +15 from three unique dungeons gives three 30% rolls. This will result on average 2 to 3 pieces of loot in the weekly chest at an appropriate item level if you clear all ten dungeons. This would equalise raid loot and M+ loot acquisition rates as well as allowing M+ players to target loot by only doing the dungeons they want loot from. You would need to add a key reforger so you can get the keys for the dungeons but I think that's fine.

[dragnipur]

As tank, I disagree that trash is boring. The trash pulls - which to skip, which to combine, and how to pull them - is where most of the strategy of M+ lies.

As a fellow tank i agree with you.It is really interesting to play with the trash.Pull some skip another,CC that pack and so on.Unlike raiding where the emphasis is on Bosses M+ is famous for its trash.I won't mind bosses to be buffed a bit.But in total the trash is great.

[ReD-EyeD]

So a title and a mount would be enough to make all of it have a point? We have so many mounts and titles that nobody cares about them anymore.

It's not a mount or title people care about, it's a representation of your achievement. It can be a donkey or bone dragon, it doesn't even matter.

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What do you feel would be proper rewards then? Given that they also have to balance M+ with M raiding, tier-by-tier?

Exponential rewards for clearing m+ dungeons in a current season. There is already an achievement for clearing in time all 10+ dungeons. Why can't be there 15+ or 20+ with special rewards like weapon/armor transmogs (similar to MoP/WoD ones) or mounts, or whatever else? All you get right now is literally just 10 achievement points and nothing else.

[Zephire]

Hey..

I've been trying to find interesting and challenging stuff to do outside weekly raiding now that we have Uldir on farm...and I'm struggling.

Mythic+ caps at heroic uldir level gear without upgrading, and there is really no reason to go above mythic 10 once per week (you just get more loot that you probably can't use).

As it is right now, I run one mythic 10 a week for a dissapointing weekly cache reward every Tuesday, and then I never have any reason to go into Mythic+ again. Why aren't the rewards for pushing higher mythic+ good?

You lost me. Are you looking for loot or a challenge? I would consider pushing m+ as high as you can and then some, to be a challenge. Isn't that the first reason you're looking for? What does loot have to do with that opening statement?

[Jujudrood]

The only thing I could get behind is if they added 'M+15: Season 1' and 'M+20: Season 1' then gave maybe a unique cosmetic reward, weapon or armor, whatever, something for reaching those benchmarks.
But then again, I'm sure if they did that, the forums would explode with every 'non-essential' M+ class being mad they can't get those achievements and unique items and such, so the complaint would go from "why bother?" to even more of "I can't get in a pug because my class/spec is weak!"

But as it stands now, if you don't find them fun, then yeah, do your 10 and move on.
If it's not fun to you, then it's not for you, and that's okay.
I wouldn't want them sliding the reward benchmarks to, say, +15 for max loot (equivalent to today's +10 loot) because that sets the bar too high, but I also don't want them dropping Mythic raid quality gear from M+ right away either because then M+ becomes the gear source for raid.
Maybe once the Hall of Fame is done (like recently, when xrealm Mythic opened), they do a 'Season X.5' loot structure and allow a +15 to scale up to 385, to allow those who only do M+ to get better items while giving yet another loot access point to those who are close to finishing mythic uldir but not quite there. /shrug