Russia blocks Ukraine from Sea of Azov, steals ships

[Warning]

Crimea belongs to Russia. Deal with it.

Crimea is under an illegal occupation and the international community should never accept it. Supporting Putin is supporting a murderer and a thug and a pathetic piece of shit who needs constant propaganda and fake votes to remain in power of a Russia withering under his corruption. He's a cancer upon the Russian people and I pray they'll find the strength to rid themselves of him.

[Bakis]

You might be confusing Putin's rating in NATO countries with his rating in Russia. Those are two different things. While every politician in NATO demonises Putin and Russia every chance they get (including this incident, where 100% of fault lies with Ukraine) because its more popular to lie (and/or live in fairy land where Crimea belongs to Ukraine) than to follow logic, his rating is doing relatively fine. I doubt this incident could even affect his rating.

He has no competition (for various reasons... but lets not go there) and its his last term, so rating is irrelevant.

You should stop listening to hardcore anti-Russian politicians. They are doing their usual anti-Russia lip service, ignoring facts. Anyone blaming this incident on Russia is either brainwashed or has agenda that makes person ignore facts and outright lie or Trump level stupid.

No I dont, I speak of Putins rating within Russia.
Who spoke about this "incident" impacting his rating prior.
The whole point is this "incindet" was made TO enhance his falling ratings.

Remove ur blind folds plz.

[rowaasr13]

As I've said, Babchenko v2.0 will fail exactly because Babchenko "genius triumph over FSB" v1.0 (yeah, that's how ukro-news universally call it) happened.

https://www.sns.sk/andrej-danko-ukra...-opat-nehrali/
Slovakian Speaker of National Council says: "Ukraine already lied to us about dead journalist, so we're wary that they're playing us again".

[stevenho]

Ukraine is an artificial state. They gave birth to Russia, then half of it was a part of Poland for centuries. They don't have a unified identity.
I wonder if most of them even want to be independent. Millions of their young workforce is in Poland already, just make it official at this point.

[Bakis]

Ukraine is an artificial state. They gave birth to Russia, then half of it was a part of Poland for centuries. They don't have a unified identity.
I wonder if most of them even want to be independent. Millions of their young workforce is in Poland already, just make it official at this point.

Swedish vikings gave Russia its name so I guess it belong to us.

[Kellhound]

The funniest thing about it is that after their Swedish floating dry dock sank Russia have nowhere to dock their remaining cruiser, which mean it would have had to go to Ukraine's Black Sea Port where it was built) for repairs except they're not exactly speaking so they've shot themselves in the foot there haha.

Just a note though, the ships (or ship as there's only one left in service and it was the only one of it's class ever completed lol) aren't called heavy aviation cruisers due to where they were built, it's due to their design/configuration, they are actually a different type of ship to an aircraft carrier (an older type as well). We (the west) stopped using them after WW1, the only country to build any post WW2 was the USSR (who have never had an aircraft carrier, they were actually building one in Ukraine in the late 80's but it was scrapped after the USSR fell). It's just common for our media to refer to them as aircraft carriers even though they're not because virtually nobody apart from military/naval enthusiasts know the difference anyway.

The Pacific Fleet has a dry dock big enough, but it isnt very usable to a Northern Fleet ship....

While the Kievs were truly heavy aviation cruisers with the bulk of their firepower coming from missiles, the Kuznetsov (and the Varyag had he been commissioned) placed aviation assets as his primary firepower. He is more akin to the USS Lexington than he is to the Kievs.

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That's still provocation, however - just like US ships near Chinese artificial islands.

Both can be true simultaneously.

The provocation in the South China Sea is China's illegitimate attempt to annex areas they have no legal claim to. The US Navy is just maintaining freedom of the seas.

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Their legal right is disputable as previous agreement was explicitly linked to "Treaty of Friendship with Russia" that they terminated this September.

All ships also have legal duty to obey commands of relevant authorities, which they ignored.

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Reported by Ukrainian blogger Sharii (who posted recording made by one of the ships around the area) - but i don't think listening to Ukrainian and Russian conversations is going to be particularly helpful on this board.

Obviously that isn't full recording as entire incident went on for 15 hours, but it does make quite solid impression...

Russia and Ukraine have equal legal authority to transit, and neither had the authority to interfere.

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They weren't in international waters because area around Kerch bridge is very obviously Russian territory - or, if you want to ignore reality, you could consider it Ukrainian.

So they were intercepted by border guard and offered to join queue - offer which they refused.

It's quite clearly Russian waters with multi-billion important construction there which Ukrainians openly threatened to blow up before.

Kerch strait is just several kilometres wide and anything entering it literally cannot be in international waters. They were offered to leave into international waters and refused to do that until the moment Russian border guard finally got orders to arrest them - many many hours later.

The entire straight is LEGALLY joint inland water of both states. As such, neither has authority over the other's warships.

Theat bridge was intentionally built to limit the maritime trade of Ukraine.

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Crimea is not part of Ukraine. Eastern regions aren't technically occupied. Are you acting surprised that when coup happens not everyone in country supports it, especially in parts that oppose Ukrainian nationalists who illegally (then legitimised themselves) took power?

However that still doesn't answer my question. What attacks? There haven't been any. Or do all Americans live in Trump reality where things aren't what they actually are?

Crimea is de jure part of Ukraine.

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Crimea belongs to Russia. Deal with it.


Except that its other way around. Poroshenko is the one in trouble with rating close to 0 before election stirring stuff up.

Crimea may be occupied by Russia, but that does not mean it belongs to them.

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Ukraine is an artificial state. They gave birth to Russia, then half of it was a part of Poland for centuries. They don't have a unified identity.
I wonder if most of them even want to be independent. Millions of their young workforce is in Poland already, just make it official at this point.

Russia is an "artificial" state as well. Then again that pretty much is true for every state.

[caervek]

The Pacific Fleet has a dry dock big enough, but it isnt very usable to a Northern Fleet ship....

No probs, they can use the captured Ukrainian tugboat xD

While the Kievs were truly heavy aviation cruisers with the bulk of their firepower coming from missiles, the Kuznetsov (and the Varyag had he been commissioned) placed aviation assets as his primary firepower. He is more akin to the USS Lexington than he is to the Kievs.

Actually the Kuznetsov class focused even more on their missiles for offense than the Kievs did, adding more anti ship missiles and replacing the VTOL strike fighters with STOVL air supremacy fighters in lieu of additional SAMs. This is why Russia moving the Kuznetsov to Syria was a purely propaganda act as neither ISIS not the jihadis had aircraft for it to defend the fleet/ports against, it was just there for attention.

It was the Ulyanovsk class (set to be the USSRs first carrier) which would have focused on aviation assets instead of AA weaponry.

[Crispin]

Russia occupies Crimea. Deal with it.

fixed that mistake for you, you're welcome

[Puupi]

Ukraine is an artificial state. They gave birth to Russia, then half of it was a part of Poland for centuries. They don't have a unified identity.
I wonder if most of them even want to be independent. Millions of their young workforce is in Poland already, just make it official at this point.

So is Russia even after centuries of forced Russification and ethnic cleansing. That abomination should be shattered to pieces.

[Odintdk]

In fairness, we (the international community) consider the Golan Heights to be part of Syria, yet if a bunch of Syrian vehicles tried to drive through it they would be stopped/arrested by the Israeli forces that have occupied it for 50 years.

Among the 70 other international laws put down by the "international community", that Israel broke since their country's existence. But that's okay because US ally and the only "democracy in the middle east".

Edit: And yes Crimea belongs to Russia now. But maybe wouldn't have happened if Ukraine hadn't planned to bring the NATO to Russia's doorstep. Don't wanna get burnt? Don't play with fire.

[Puupi]

Edit: And yes Crimea belongs to Russia now. But maybe wouldn't have happened if Ukraine hadn't planned to bring the NATO to Russia's doorstep. Don't wanna get burnt? Don't play with fire.

What a sad excuse.

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Norway... you know, actual NATO countries neighbouring Russia?

[caervek]

What a sad excuse

The funny thing is his excuse is totally wrong anyway. Crimea seceding from Ukraine had nothing to do with Ukraine's ambitions in regard to NATO or the EU, it was simply something that had been waiting to happen for 23 years finally coming to fruition due to the disarray in Ukraine following the revolution. The comedy is that Ukraine losing it's control of Crimea due to political disarray is directly comparable to the Russia losing it's control of Ukraine due to political disarray xD

[Deleted]

What a sad excuse.

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Norway... you know, actual NATO countries neighbouring Russia?

Irrelevant fear mongering comparison.

Massive difference is those countries are not populated with Russians. Crimea was part of Ukraine only because during USSR times it was gifted to Ukraine. Ukrainians don't live there, Russians do. Crimea didn't have a choice when they were forced to join Ukraine. They did try to leave democratically in 90s, but were squashed by Ukrainian military. Where was glorious NATO? Oh right, NATO support democracy only when it suits them.

Nobody outside of NATO give a fuck of what NATO countries think. Crimean people made their choice to leave Ukraine the first chance they got. Two-faced pieces of shit that pretend to be pinnacle of human rights, democracy and all that shit suddenly decided its not ok for people to make their choice because it doesn't fit NATO agenda.

Crimea de-facto belongs to Russia now. Waters in Kerch straight belong to Russia. Get over it and stop being hypocritical Trump level liars.

[Skulltaker]

No I dont, I speak of Putins rating within Russia.
Who spoke about this "incident" impacting his rating prior.
The whole point is this "incindet" was made TO enhance his falling ratings.

Remove ur blind folds plz.

The latest poll I could find from an international polling institute shows his approval at 79% in Russia, and 43% worldwirde, up from 33% worldwide in 2015. 10% in just two years is rather impressive. You can read up on it here.

Of course, you have another source that supports your statements?

[Elegiac]

Irrelevant fear mongering comparison.

Massive difference is those countries are not populated with Russians. Crimea was part of Ukraine only because during USSR times it was gifted to Ukraine. Ukrainians don't live there, Russians do. Crimea didn't have a choice when they were forced to join Ukraine. They did try to leave democratically in 90s, but were squashed by Ukrainian military. Where was glorious NATO? Oh right, NATO support democracy only when it suits them.

Nobody outside of NATO give a fuck of what NATO countries think. Crimean people made their choice to leave Ukraine the first chance they got. Two-faced pieces of shit that pretend to be pinnacle of human rights, democracy and all that shit suddenly decided its not ok for people to make their choice because it doesn't fit NATO agenda.

Crimea de-facto belongs to Russia now. Waters in Kerch straight belong to Russia. Get over it and stop being hypocritical Trump level liars.

The international community is under no obligation to respect the results of a fraudulent election.

[Shalcker]

The international community is under no obligation to respect the results of a fraudulent election.

Russia is under no obligation to respect delusions of international community.

[Skulltaker]

Irrelevant fear mongering comparison.

Massive difference is those countries are not populated with Russians. Crimea was part of Ukraine only because during USSR times it was gifted to Ukraine. Ukrainians don't live there, Russians do. Crimea didn't have a choice when they were forced to join Ukraine. They did try to leave democratically in 90s, but were squashed by Ukrainian military. Where was glorious NATO? Oh right, NATO support democracy only when it suits them.

Nobody outside of NATO give a fuck of what NATO countries think. Crimean people made their choice to leave Ukraine the first chance they got. Two-faced pieces of shit that pretend to be pinnacle of human rights, democracy and all that shit suddenly decided its not ok for people to make their choice because it doesn't fit NATO agenda.

Crimea de-facto belongs to Russia now. Waters in Kerch straight belong to Russia. Get over it and stop being hypocritical Trump level liars.

One might add that the gifting of Crimea to the Ukraine wasn't merely that, it had to do with administration, too. One might also add that it was illegal.

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The international community is under no obligation to respect the results of a fraudulent election.

And you have proof for fraud, or are you talking out of your ass again?

[Draco-Onis]

Russia is under no obligation to respect delusions of international community.

That's good then I am sure within the next year or so Russia will be fine cutting off all economic ties with the outside world, I am sure your economy will get better as a result.

[caervek]

Crimea de-facto belongs to Russia now. Waters in Kerch straight belong to Russia.

That's not how it works. De-facto basically means a state of affairs exists in practice despite being invalid in law. That's why people use the term. By saying "Crimea de-facto belongs to Russia now" you're acknowledging that Russia's control of Crimea is unlawful/unsanctioned. The waters in the Kerch straight cannot belong to Russia while it has de-facto control of Crimea, that would require de-jure (legal) control of Crimea which Ukraine currently have.

[Skulltaker]

That's good then I am sure within the next year or so Russia will be fine cutting off all economic ties with the outside world, I am sure your economy will get better as a result.

Why? See, even with all the posturing and threats of sanctions, the international community cares way more about money than they do about the people of Ukraine or Crimea. You really think they will chose the ressources and the market of Ukraine over those offered by Russia? No way in hell. There is nothing the international community will do, unless Russia openly attacks a NATO country - which will never happen. Noone wants a war with Russia, because there is nothing to be gained from it. If peace with Russia means throwing the Ukraine under the bus, I highly doubt that the discussion over it would last any longer than 5 minutes.