Millennials Kill Industries Because of Depressed Wages

[Barnabas]

This assumes that if you move across the country, you'll get a $40k wage in Tulsa, OK. Generally speaking, wages are higher in high cost of living areas, and lower in low cost of living areas. Most people who move to lower cost of living areas know they're going to most likely see a pay cut.

That's not to say that moving is necessarily a bad idea, but it's not always advantageous to do so, either. You have to weigh whatever your wage in a given area will be with cost of living, no matter where you're living.

sure but sf is 240% more expensive and if you want to own a house it's within reach in oklahoma without needing to make over 100k a year.

[Logwyn]

The problem with millennials is that they think every job is a $15/hour job. The other problem with millennials (at least the $15/hour crew) is they don't believe in capitalism or the free market either, apparently.

I'd bet you believe in patents and copyrights? If you believe in them then you don't believe in completely free markets either but government created monopoly.


The thing about the minimum wage is that in the 1960s it was something like 2 bucks. Which when pushed forward to today's dollars is above 17 an hour in buying power. Number aren't exactlly right but point is there.


Also when is cooking at home an industry? People make money by coming at home?

[Themius]

The problem with millennials is that they think every job is a $15/hour job. The other problem with millennials (at least the $15/hour crew) is they don't believe in capitalism or the free market either, apparently.

1983, fast food workers (men) made the equivalent of 18.41 an hour in relative income for 2018. What's do you have to say about that now?

[alturic]

Someone has to do these jobs. If they're content where they are and their basic needs are being met then why should they have to aim higher? If they want more than just their basic needs then they can go for something better. The problem here is that for a lot of these people their basic needs are not even being met.

Besides that, maybe someone might be motivated by things besides money. I know that's an alien concept to some people, but hear me out. Look at Jonas Salk, the inventor of the polio vaccine. He could have made a lot of money off of that, but he didn't even patent it because he didn't care about the money. He just wanted to help people. I know our society is so wrapped up with money this and money that, but it's not the only motivator. I would gladly take a lower paying job if it meant I enjoyed it more and felt like I was doing something worthwhile. That's why I'm heavily considering becoming a teacher. If people were only motivated by money do you think anyone would be a teacher with how little they get paid compared to how much education you need for it?

Yes, someone has to do these jobs. Not people looking to make it a career.

Yet, around my parts of the country at least, all teachers do is go on strike every ~X years their contracts are out because they want more money, less insurance co-pays, etc. I do think teachers having to pay out of pocket for basic supplies is the dumbest thing in the world but yea, to say teachers want to teach out of some public service, doesn't seem to be the case in any district around me anyway.

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Well, suffice to say that, if you're in the generations immediately preceding the millenials, your specific political and socio-economic ideals and views likely did little more than tank the economy is the Great Recession... and with that in mind, why should we give a damn what you think about those things? Obviously getting your way only served to shoot a healthy economy in the foot.

Like, full stop. You can't blame "the millenials" for the Great Recession; the majority of them weren't even able to vote. That's on the generations that preceded them, both in their spending habits and who they voted for.

Well for one, I think I can count on my hands and feet the amount of congressmen and senators that are younger than 40. In other words "my generation", and "your generation" are NOWHERE near being represented by the people who make policy. It's absurd people who shake while they speak, can barely hold a conversation relating to technology, etc are making these decisions relating to these things.

On top of that, how in the hell does a recession or *anything* relating to the government have anything to do with snowflakes thinking every job is worth $15+/hour?

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if $15/hour is what's needed to live on then yes, every job should be at least $15/hour. Fairly simple premise.

I'm only 33, but I don't think *anyone*, *ever*, looked at minimum wage jobs as a career aka a job to live on.

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Which is still about $10 right now.

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No. They think every job deserves a livable wage like they did back in the 80s. The US is hardly a free market. We have a ton of anti free market laws.

Ok, now there might be a valid discussion to have. So back in the 80's (I was just born) minimum wage was a livable wage? In other words, you didn't need welfare to "survive"? You didn't need to work more than 40 hours while being able to afford to live?

[Themius]

Yes, someone has to do these jobs. Not people looking to make it a career.

Yet, around my parts of the country at least, all teachers do is go on strike every ~X years their contracts are out because they want more money, less insurance co-pays, etc. I do think teachers having to pay out of pocket for basic supplies is the dumbest thing in the world but yea, to say teachers want to teach out of some public service, doesn't seem to be the case in any district around me anyway.

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Well for one, I think I can count on my hands and feet the amount of congressmen and senators that are younger than 40. In other words "my generation", and "your generation" are NOWHERE near being represented by the people who make policy. It's absurd people who shake while they speak, can barely hold a conversation relating to technology, etc are making these decisions relating to these things.

On top of that, how in the hell does a recession or *anything* relating to the government have anything to do with snowflakes thinking every job is worth $15+/hour?

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I'm only 33, but I don't think *anyone*, *ever*, looked at minimum wage jobs as a career aka a job to live on.

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Ok, now there might be a valid discussion to have. So back in the 80's (I was just born) minimum wage was a livable wage? In other words, you didn't need welfare to "survive"? You didn't need to work more than 40 hours while being able to afford to live?

I posted already above that in 1983 relative income to 2018 the average fast food working male pulled in 38,300. Which is 18.41/hr going by a 40 hr work week.

So the people wanting 15 now are snowflakes but the previous generation who made MORE THAN 15 IN RELATIVE INCOME aren't?

[Masark]

Pls spend?

No wage! Only spend!

[Kithelle]

I guess that is why a common job in the west could support a household and family and now its a room and if you dont get ill

Typical...people these days..."If you don't have a job as good as I do you must be lazy!" So many people living in ignorant bliss...don't realize the real world doesn't work like that.

That a few decades ago you could support a family on a job you could get from a HS degree, now you can't even do that on a variety of different college degrees.

[Mellrod]

This just in! MILLENNIALS ARE KILLING INDUSTRIES THAT RELY ON PEOPLE WITH TIME AND MONEY
See also: Why aren't homeless people driving mercedes? Why aren't children 6ft tall, and why are old people dying?

Couldn't help but think of this:




Okay, joking aside, i'll actually contribute to the conversation. Older folks say Millennials are "killing" everything they know and love, but really we aren't doing jack shit except trying to adapt to a vastly different world from what stubborn baby boomers remember. A world where money is tighter than a shrunken pair of skinny jeans, and arguably worse/more corrupt than it was in the Gilded Age.

We're killing the golf industry because we don't have time for that like rich old white people do
We're killing wine because wine is expensive and frivolent.
We're killing fast food because (to no one's surprise) the fast food industry is absolutely disgusting
We're killing American cheese because no one wants to eat something sprayed with shit tons of chemicals and preservatives.
We're killing soap bars because soap bars are just outdated (same with western style toilets & toiletries for that matter. They've been the same for 100 or more years now. Time to innovate.)
We're killing colleges because we are realizing they don't open the same doors they used to, yet still put you deep in debt, and suck up years of your life you could spend on other things.
We're killing mayonnaise because... well, imo at least, mayo is a gross condiment anyway.

The list just keeps going. Bottom line is, everything we are "killing" is either too expensive to afford or too wasteful, (jewelry, wine, cars, kids, napkins, etc) unsanitary/unhealthy or has a risk of injury (cigarettes, McDonalds, American cheese, Applebees, Highschool Football, etc) or we just don't have the time off from our multiple jobs to enjoy such things anymore. Not while we're trying to pay our college debt or bills (golf, vacations, travel industry, movie industry, etc).

Industries are "dying" because of inflation, millennials spending less and trying to save more is just another symptom of that. When it's not inflation, it's our lack of free time, interest, or simply being educated on how the thing in question is harmful to you and/or the environment (here's hoping we can kill the bottled water industry soon). I always find it funny (and this applies as a rule of thumb) how older generations will always vilify the newer ones for not living like them, yet they never recognize that it's because we live in an entirely different world from you.

[helebelemon]

As some one who was actually working in the 80s, I will tell you that minimum wage WAS NOT a livable wage then either.

My parents earned $4 an hour in Georgia and it was definitely livable. Why? Because a slab of pork ribs costed $0.50/pound and rent was $400/month. Now we're at $7.25, ribs cost $4/lb and rent is $1000/month.

[Pooti]

As someone who actually knows math, yes, it was.

Keep continuing to be an expert on things you did not live through.

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My parents earned $4 an hour in Georgia and it was definitely livable. Why? Because a slab of pork ribs costed $0.50/pound and rent was $400/month. Now we're at $7.25, ribs cost $4/lb and rent is $1000/month.

Where I lived rent was no where near $400 a month. I bet if you were willing to, you could find rent for $400 a month right now someplace.

[helebelemon]

Where I lived rent was no where near $400 a month. I bet if you were willing to, you could find rent for $400 a month right now someplace.

Oh I could, but a slab of ribs would still not be $0.50/lb. Heck, it was $0.99/lb in Southern California 15 years ago. And that ignores how much I will be paid at min. wage.

[Shadowferal]

The only apt worth $400/month in NJ is in the ghetto...

[Bodakane]

Turns out if you import a few million foreign workers, you'll depress wages. Why, it's almost like the laws of supply and demand are a thing - who knew ?


This is actually a new one to me. I've heard of plenty of "they'll do the jobs Americans won't do" stuff, but this is a new one.


Fiat currency and mass immigration also don't help at all. If you look at US wage growth, it's all but come to a stop since the 1960s:







1965 was when the Hart-Celler Act came into play (ie the modern immigration system), 1973 was when the Bretton-Woods system broke down (that tied the USD to gold)... put them together, factor in a bit of time for the effects to be felt, and voila.

GDP per capita and such remains healthy, but the rewards just aren't flowing to the working or middle classes in wage improvements.

Yeah no. That was about the time food producers like Smithfield, ConAgra and even McDonalds, figured out factory farms staffed with illegals were goldmines.

Make no mistake, the reason there are so many illegals here is because of Big Food producers. They want illegals because they are disposable work force.

That lead to other industries going low on the wage scale.

[NM 156]

Middle aged people kill themselves because of depressed wages?
https://www.businessinsider.com/suic...dle-age-2018-6

[Edge-]

This reminds me of people saying how they used to only make 5-7 dollars do basic jobs in the 80s which presently is like 15-19 an hour where minimum wage is under $8 in 2018
https://www.businessinsider.com/mill...report-2018-11

Damnit...I was really hoping that somehow all us millennials were just an unstoppable, rampaging machine of destruction. That our bloodlust for destroying industries and products knew no bounds, our hate and malice uncontrollable and our targets as elusive as our consumer dollars.

This is a lot less sexy and exciting : (

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The problem is that millennial and gen X'ers simply don't have the money to spend on non-essential items. They have to spend the first twenty-five years of their lives growing up, going through kindergarten, elementary, high school, paying thousands of dollars to go to college (either using money they saved from a summer job or from a loan), transfer to a university for four years, AND THEN they can finally apply for a job and climb up the ranks from the bottom for $20 an hour. Even thirty year-olds have no money to spend.

[alturic]

A lot of them have never had a job. Even in their 20s and early 30s. I'm lumped into the Millennial demographic I'm not eating out because paying 12+ for a meal that won't fill me up is stupid. While my money's been tight thanks to some shit luck with my health. I'm not struggling like many of my generation are. Heck simple concepts like showing up to work on time is surpising foreign to many millennials. Not to say pay isn't suppressed because it is

Oh you hit the nail right on the fucking head. First-hand experience "Can I have more hours this week?", "Sure". Day of said extra hours "Can you see if John can cover my shift".

Just flat-out not showing up.

Wanting to leave early all the time.

It's no wonder they want $15/hour, to make up for the normal $8/hr they are losing with all the time off.

[Theodarzna]

Yeah no. That was about the time food producers like Smithfield, ConAgra and even McDonalds, figured out factory farms staffed with illegals were goldmines.

Make no mistake, the reason there are so many illegals here is because of Big Food producers. They want illegals because they are disposable work force.

That lead to other industries going low on the wage scale.

Yet preventing these wicked industries from doing this is not hampered by the fact that certain political camps want the borders to not exist.

[VanishingAct]

There is a bunch of reasons for the millennial generation. But it stemmed from a market shift on the generation. They have no affinity to the previous generation that businesses built their models from.
I spent 16 years working in one of the largest businesses in the world that sell a consumable product. I was pleading with them back in 2011/2012 to change their entire market and business outlook because they were completely missing with millennials and it would only get worse with the years. I left them a couple years ago but they were laying off thousands of people, down sizing and going into survival mode to stay as one of the biggest.

Between the market shift of the generation and the affordability of products and services, many industries were left sleeping because they didn't change with the new generation in the market. Millennials want to spend there money on other products that give them happiness and because of the increase cost of everything, they stopped spending so much on traditional premium brands that did not appeal to them as newer brands did. Even if it was seemingly unrelated products or services.

[Drosul]

The problem with millennials is that they think every job is a $15/hour job. The other problem with millennials (at least the $15/hour crew) is they don't believe in capitalism or the free market either, apparently.

If the minimum wage had held constant from the 70s for inflation and real cost of living increases, it would be ~$24 an hour.

People believe in capitalism, they just know that greed causes money to flow upwards. The issue is this isn't just true for employees, but for businesses in general.... as small businesses are the ones getting squeezed hardest right now, and mega corporations soaking up all the $$.... You saw it recently as amazon just got a couple billion in handouts to build in New York.

Then these companies don't pay their workers enough to stay off government assistance, and rely on tax payers paying the rest via welfare. Ironically, we're paying Bezos and the Walton family billions per year in welfare payouts to their employees, so that they can personally profit/pocket the difference rather than just paying their damn workers enough to stay off welfare.

The great irony is that Republicans always want to harken back to the "good old days" of this country, most typically idealized by White Suburbia in the 50s...

Yet they go massively out of their way to ignore that income taxes where VERY high back then, Union participation was VERY high back then, and our country actually made it's own damn products rather than paying billions per year for cheap knockoff chinese garbage. Instead doing everything to crush minimum wages, break up unions, eviscerate tax revenues, while outsourcing pretty much everything being produced, and even half the service jobs.

The republican platform of the 50s would have been left of Bernie Sanders on unions, wages, and income taxes..... but you know what? A warehouse drone making at or near minimum wage still earned enough money to afford a house in the burbs, a car, and a vacation every year, which is MILES above what happens now, despite the fact that today's warehouse drones are statistically working more hours, and producing over twice as much actual products.