260+ arrested, nearly 100 injured as Paris descends into chaos amid Yellow Vest ralli

[DinardJoulien]

When your understanding of politics is so shallow that you can't see any political colors beyond left and right.

Macron's policies are neo-liberal (which would roughly qualify as centrist / right wing).

Fighting climate change is part of the left ideology, or at least this is what lefties want to tell everyone.
And I have said that reality is more complicated than left and right. Try better next time!

[Niaraa]

The most amusing part of this is how everyone seems confused and especially the US media tries to paint this as either a progressive or alt right protest, nobody can seem to quite be able to figure out what the narrative is supposed to be. It's a shitfest.

You got conservatives on this site trying to denounce it as a 'leftists protesting against leftist policies', others trying to claim it's 'protesters are conservatives protesting against immigration and supporting Trump', then you've got left-wing people trying to declare it as 'anti-environmentalist' protests, some liberals trying to denounce it as 'communist / socialist' protests etc.

Everyone is so wrong. This is just a general "poor people's' protest", doesn't matter if you're left or right, everyone is united on the fact that the wealthy (wealthy through corporatism, wealthy through globalism, wealthy through neo-liberal government policy) are getting too much favors and keeping too much of what belongs to everyone.

This is but the sign that we're at a breaking point in the West. That capitalism is going to have to change.

nothing to add! Amen. but to be fair french media are lost too

[stevenho]

Looks like it is over.
Compared to last week, nothing happened.

[DinardJoulien]

In the EU politics aren't so shallow as to only have a left and right side.

The left here is majorly split up in 2 groups:
- Social Democrats
- Green

Then you have centrist parties:
- Liberals
- Christian Democrats

Then you have right wing parties:
- Liberals (comparable to US democrats)
- Conservatives
- Loony Far right parties (comparable to US Republicans)

Glad to be able to give you a very simplified overview of all the sides which shift and aren't always on each other's side.

All I have said is that Climate Change is the issue usually brought up by left politicians.

What listing political parties has to do with anything?
You could have listed numbers from the hone book - it would be the same, since neither have anything to do with what I've said.

[Thage]

What Vandal is getting at is that European parties aren't the monolithic coalitions they are here, so there's less alliances of convenience over otherwise divisive issues in a given party, yes?

[Fuiking]

What Vandal is getting at is that European parties aren't the monolithic coalitions they are here, so there's less alliances of convenience over otherwise divisive issues in a given party, yes?

I disagree with that notions *looks at current dutch cabinet*..... btw did you saw Erdogan go mad at those riots? ''THEY AINT NO REAL DEMOCRACIES BECAUSE POLICE HAD TO GET CONTROL AND HIT PEOPLE IN THE FACE AFTER THEY STARTED DESTROYING PROPERITY HURR DURR DURR!''

[Kourvith]

Paris was calmer today thanks to military getting in. Although other France cities have broken up, Bordeaux especially, where streets were litterally set on fire. Nearly every France's major cities were protesting.



On a sidenote, I went on Facebook live videos out of curiosity around the world, and was surprised to see that right now in Canada there is a Yellow Vest meeting (near the center, at Edmonton). Other people in the US giving speeches about movement aswell. The movement is spreading worldwide.

[stevenho]

Paris was calmer today thanks to military getting in.

They did? I watched the live stream and didn't see army anywhere. Do you have a pic?

Although other France cities have broken up, Bordeaux especially, where streets were litterally set on fire. Nearly every France's major cities were protesting.

http://s1.lprs1.fr/images/2018/12/08...1_1000x625.jpg

Funny how the pic shows four 20-year-olds without yellow vests, hehe.
This piece sums it up nicely from what I saw: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/w...llow-vest.html

[Kourvith]

They did? I watched the live stream and didn't see army anywhere. Do you have a pic?

Not the army, but Gendarmerie Mobile, which is the military part of police.


They also deployed 12 armored cars :



A bunch of copters around Paris and Bordeaux aswell.

Funny how the pic shows four 20-year-olds without yellow vests, hehe.

Yeah yellow vests themselves booed vandals, tried to stop them, but were threatened whenever they did. It's ... complicated.

[stevenho]

Ye I saw those and wondered whether the tires were fireproof when they were driving over fires

Anyway, looks like the police did a fine job in Paris today.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no "left" vs "right" in Europe.

No need to try and box everything into "right" or "left".
There is conservative vs progressive all over Europe, France included.

[Kourvith]

Ye I saw those and wondered whether the tires were fireproof when they were driving over fires

Anyway, looks like the police did a fine job in Paris today.

Yes I'm grateful they did Morale is going very low for parisians, as we see our city destroyed year after year for different reasons (terrorists, now protests). It's kinda depressing tbh, we just want a bit of peace. So much for living in a capital city I guess.

[exochaft]

That is only the case in the USA where everything is partisan: black or white, left or right.

There is nothing amusing about the fact that some people on the left: socialists and worker's parties (both usually left parties) might protest against environmentalist policies (which might be an entirely different political leaning). There is nothing odd about it, nothing special, it's very common when your political landscape isn't binary.

By saying it's amusing you're just exposing how shallow and dumbed down your entire understanding of politics has become due to the dum-dum american election system.

There is no "left" vs "right" in Europe.

Listing the political parties was to show you that there can be multiple sides on the left which don't agree with each other, in fact in my own country we often have the conservative + green environmentalist party forming a government coalition.

Honestly, that's pretty similar to how your average person is in the US, everyone has varied opinions well beyond the concept of Left and Right... but if you watched the media 24/7 people would start thinking everything is completely binary. That's part of the point, it drives up controversy and emotion, which are easy to manipulate. The real trick is figuring out who stands for what when it comes to the actual politicians, as a safe mindset is to assume they want power and determine if everything they're saying is a bid to get power by hiding behind the binary system and exploiting it. For example, in the last US election, I saw a couple Democrat politicians campaigning on how "conservative" they are despite in their actual track record showing quite the opposite, but it was all in a bid to exploit people who don't delve into the details and go on labels. Same with some Republicans when it comes to certain social issues, saying one thing to try to get votes yet doing another once they have power. While my examples are in the US, such behavior has been common since the dawn of politics and governments, as people who strive for political office tend to crave power and will do anything they can to not lose such power.

From the limited news I can get concerning the situation in Paris, I think it's easier to put in these terms (happens quite a bit with climate change policies): most politicians and government figures make decision that will affect the masses while completely insulating themselves from said changes. If you jack up fuel prices, I guarantee it will not adversely affect those in power, but their 'noble' cause will certain hurt everyone else. You start making policies that actually hinder the politicians... well, let's be honest, if they have a choice in the matter, it'll never happen.

[stevenho]

If you jack up fuel prices, I guarantee it will not adversely affect those in power, but their 'noble' cause will certain hurt everyone else.

Macron is not a dumbass, he is quite educated. So are most of the members of his cabinet. They know full well that in order to have people turn away from fossil fuels they would need to subsidize electric car sales and ivest in the charging infrastructure. But that is a COST.
Adding another tax to fuel, already the most taxed commodity all over Europe, is nothing but a cash grab. They were aware of it, but they mispredicted the severity of the backlash.
All of this has zero to do with climate change.

[DinardJoulien]

That is only the case in the USA where everything is partisan: black or white, left or right.

There is nothing amusing about the fact that some people on the left: socialists and worker's parties (both usually left parties) might protest against environmentalist policies (which might be an entirely different political leaning). There is nothing odd about it, nothing special, it's very common when your political landscape isn't binary.

By saying it's amusing you're just exposing how shallow and dumbed down your entire understanding of politics has become due to the dum-dum american election system.

There is no "left" vs "right" in Europe.

Listing the political parties was to show you that there can be multiple sides on the left which don't agree with each other, in fact in my own country we often have the conservative + green environmentalist party forming a government coalition.

Cool.
I applaud that you have wasted your time to say something that is not relevant to the topic at hand, which I have clarified already, but you do you, I guess.

[Kourvith]

On a sidenote, I went on Facebook live videos out of curiosity around the world, and was surprised to see that right now in Canada there is a Yellow Vest meeting (near the center, at Edmonton). Other people in the US giving speeches about movement aswell. The movement is spreading worldwide.

Still on facebook live : now a London Brexit protest using orange vests (as yellow vests are used by the police obviously).

[Astalnar]

Interesting how the focus in the wohle month of protests it's always Paris. While there are protests taking place throughout the entire France.

[Theodarzna]

So it has already begun with Macron and the French State deciding to tie this to Russians, the Proles will never be allowed to raise any objection to anything not endorsed by the establishment, by their masters without it being written off as sedition.

I see now why Western Elite lamented losing the Cold War. Without the Russians they have no means of holding power.

[Niaraa]

Tonight président macron said:
-+100 euros on minimum wage
-CSG canceled for retired people (for non french it a tax on income to fund unemployed and healthcare)
-home taxe canceled in 2019 insted of 2022 ( this is a taxe you paid for your town each time you rent of buy a home)
-carbone taxe canceled
-more democratic action


well i think this is enouth to end the riots but not enouth to end the protest we will see this week.after the street crisis political crisis begun now. the rich and great groupe who dont paid a single cent are still protected. for most of the protester this will be an insult

[ParanoiD84]

Police should just go hard with the watercannons, tear gas and rubber bullets, add some attack dogs to and their good. Bye bye protesters/rioters.

[Niaraa]

Police should just go hard with the watercannons, tear gas and rubber bullets, add some attack dogs to and their good. Bye bye protesters/rioters.

if you want people bring their hunting rifle to protest this is a good idea.