[Megathread] Star Citizen

[lolkbo|]

going to crash and burn like the wing commander movie

[Eleccybubb]

going to crash and burn like the wing commander movie

God I remember that movie.

Easily one of the top 10 worst Sci-Fi movies. Bombed really hard as well. Think it was a 30 mil budget and brought in 11 mil?

Game series was ok but nothing to write home about.

[MrAnderson]

So all the dev's who worked on AAA titles suddently became not AAA dev's when working in Star Citizen and Squadron 42. Productions with bigger studios, budget, scope and so on...

Ok that seems like a statement of individuals who clearly understand the industry of game development.

[bloodwulf]

So all the dev's who worked on AAA titles suddently became not AAA dev's when working in Star Citizen and Squadron 42 productions with bigger studios, budget, scope and so on...

Ok that seems like a statement of individuals who clearly understand the industry of game development.

A "Triple A" studio is a studio that has released a "Triple A" game. A studio does not default to "Triple A" if it has members that have released "Triple A" games in the past. That is not how it works, that would be like someone from Blizzard, say Ben Brode starting his own company and then hiring 40 people that have no "triple A" experience. Yes, he has worked on "Triple A" games, but you have to prove your merit before that label applies to your studio. Yeah, SC might have some experienced people, but until the studio proves its merit and RELEASES a "Triple A" title, they are not a "Triple A" studio. Enough Said.

[Orange Joe]

A "Triple A" studio is a studio that has released a "Triple A" game. A studio does not default to "Triple A" if it has members that have released "Triple A" games in the past. That is not how it works, that would be like someone from Blizzard, say Ben Brode starting his own company and then hiring 40 people that have no "triple A" experience. Yes, he has worked on "Triple A" games, but you have to prove your merit before that label applies to your studio. Yeah, SC might have some experienced people, but until the studio proves its merit and RELEASES a "Triple A" title, they are not a "Triple A" studio. Enough Said.

Dev =/= studio

Unless i'm missing something here they are talking about the devs not the studio.

[bloodwulf]

Dev =/= studio

Unless i'm missing something here they are talking about the devs not the studio.

Developer is ambiguous. A lot of people exchange Developer and Studio. English language is dumb. For instance when you are talking about the Game Developer of World Of Warcraft, most assume Blizzard not Hozzikostas. Now if you change the statement to say Lead Game Developer of World Of Warcraft, then Hozzikostas could apply (even then not really cause there are tons of team leads etc).

[Eleccybubb]

I'm curious, what do you consider to be "P2W" in a MMORPG?

P2W or P2A in my book is if you can use real money to circumvent progression and gain a considerable power/gameplay advantage over someone who does not spend money.

You can buy bigger/better ships in this game. That 100% matches up with what I think and what is considered P2W/P2A.

It doesn't matter if it's being taken out in Beta or launch. The fact of the matter is that it is there now in a game under development. Grossly overpriced microtransactions that are put in under the guise of "supporting the game" when the game already had more than most AAA games in crowdfunding.

If Blizzard put Mythic raid gear for sale with real money in the next xpacs beta. People would lose their shit.

Trion with Rift at one point made the game P2W. People were annoyed.

BDO well I don't think we need to say anything about that. It speaks for itself.

CiG do not get a free pass. Simple as that.

[Orange Joe]

Developer is ambiguous. A lot of people exchange Developer and Studio. English language is dumb. For instance when you are talking about the Game Developer of World Of Warcraft, most assume Blizzard not Hozzikostas. Now if you change the statement to say Lead Game Developer of World Of Warcraft, then Hozzikostas could apply (even then not really cause there are tons of team leads etc).

I mean, while he didn't mention names it was clear he was talking about people, not a company.

[sabe]

For new comers here;
I didn't invest much and the current state of game is fun. I love landing on planets, search through wrecks(especially on the dark side of planets). I like it more than I like Elite. The feeling is deeper.
If you really hate bugs and crashes(doesn't happen too often), don't invest in this game yet.
Subscribe on website and wait for a freefly weekend to try it.

[kenn9530]

P2W or P2A in my book is if you can use real money to circumvent progression and gain a considerable power/gameplay advantage over someone who does not spend money.

You can buy bigger/better ships in this game. That 100% matches up with what I think and what is considered P2W/P2A.

It doesn't matter if it's being taken out in Beta or launch. The fact of the matter is that it is there now in a game under development. Grossly overpriced microtransactions that are put in under the guise of "supporting the game" when the game already had more than most AAA games in crowdfunding.

If Blizzard put Mythic raid gear for sale with real money in the next xpacs beta. People would lose their shit.

Trion with Rift at one point made the game P2W. People were annoyed.

BDO well I don't think we need to say anything about that. It speaks for itself.

CiG do not get a free pass. Simple as that.

basic fact of the matter is we have no clue how basic game mechanics are going to play out on release, there is also going to be an option to tune if you want PvE or PvP so you can choose what you want to do.

the games funding if different from every other company and quite frankly this game now couldnt be made with just basic game box sales, plus these ships you buy are basic fitted and skill plays a huge factor in what your doing, a small hard to hit fighter can destroy or at least do a fair amount of damage depending on skill to someone in a larger ship, these small ships are fairly hard to hit especially in a larger ship.

we dont know what negative effects there are from doing criminal things also, what happens if it could take 2-3 times longer for you to reclaim your ship if its destroyed, there may be limits of what insurance you can get as a criminal.

[Kyanion]

basic fact of the matter is we have no clue how basic game mechanics are going to play out on release, there is also going to be an option to tune if you want PvE or PvP so you can choose what you want to do.

the games funding if different from every other company and quite frankly this game now couldnt be made with just basic game box sales, plus these ships you buy are basic fitted and skill plays a huge factor in what your doing, a small hard to hit fighter can destroy or at least do a fair amount of damage depending on skill to someone in a larger ship, these small ships are fairly hard to hit especially in a larger ship.

we dont know what negative effects there are from doing criminal things also, what happens if it could take 2-3 times longer for you to reclaim your ship if its destroyed, there may be limits of what insurance you can get as a criminal.

Point is that two evenly matched players in terms of skill the one at the advantage is the one that PAID for a better ship. You cannot argue this and claim it is fair. We don't know how negative effects and blah blah blah works and it does not really matter. The perception is that you can pay to buy better starting equipment because you are willing to plunk down cash when the other player is not.

You can argue the other side until you are blue in the face but trying to use 'player skill' as the 'huge factor' does not mean much. What if said rich player in a larger ship has a smaller ship with him and just hops into that and blasts you into atoms. Skill right? Or is it because he paid for a better ship and just does more damage than you.

[kenn9530]

Point is that two evenly matched players in terms of skill the one at the advantage is the one that PAID for a better ship. You cannot argue this and claim it is fair. We don't know how negative effects and blah blah blah works and it does not really matter. The perception is that you can pay to buy better starting equipment because you are willing to plunk down cash when the other player is not.

You can argue the other side until you are blue in the face but trying to use 'player skill' as the 'huge factor' does not mean much. What if said rich player in a larger ship has a smaller ship with him and just hops into that and blasts you into atoms. Skill right? Or is it because he paid for a better ship and just does more damage than you.

Fact is this is not a PvP focussed game, you can choose what you want to do so what does it matter what you fly as you should be able to earn some of the better combat ships within a small timeframe.

Also being a pirate may have some large drawbacks, like limited access to certain items/upgrades, so its unlikely there will be much activity of that kind in high security space.

[Kyanion]

Fact is this is not a PvP focussed game, you can choose what you want to do so what does it matter what you fly as you should be able to earn some of the better combat ships within a small timeframe.

Also being a pirate may have some large drawbacks, like limited access to certain items/upgrades, so its unlikely there will be much activity of that kind in high security space.

Fact is there will be PvE elements that will be impacted by people having P2W ships. You think there won't be an economy in the game? Guess who will have an advantage? Oh right. People that paid for better ships. Silly me.

[Malibutomi]

Ah yes, lets start a discussion with a nice bit of passive aggressiveness, that'll make people more partial in listening to what I have to say...



That hardly sounds rational. People wanting to see customers get what is owed to them is never a bad thing. People wanting to see some accountability is never a bad thing. Perhaps it would be better to pay less attention to the more hyperbolic stuff?



You also stated that a fully staffed company could not produce a game in 6 years.



Of course it matters. One is using customers money, the other is using their own and/or investors money. There's a huge difference here.



No, not double standards, just a lack of comprehension.
Sentiment is better with CDPR because they have not promised things or made spurious claims. There are no expectations set apart from getting a good game at the end of it.
CIG set a date, they made numerous claims, they took additional money based on those claims. They said SQ42 would come out in 2015, 2016, 2017 and it never did, they said huge patches would arrive which never did etc.

There's a world of difference here.

SC had a small crew in house for the 1st year, however they also made use of numerous contractors to make up for it. After the 1st year they grew rapidly, too fast imo.

There's no point arguing if you just pick half sentences and answer to those with your agenda, completely missing and twisting what i wrote.

First: i did not stated a fully staffed studio cannot release a game, i said established one, and i said i know tgey did not worked fulky on it from thebeginning.

So please next time you answer answer to my post not something you imagine, and not half of my sentences.
You sayit matters if they are using their ownmoneyor backer money, yes it does...but i said it doesn't matter if we talk about development times. You just conveniently ignored the end of my sentence to go on with your agenda again.

So either answer as grownups do or don't answer at all.

[prwraith]

This game would probably come out in 2019. If Chris Roberts had an actual boss. The guy can't manage for shit.

[MrAnderson]

Yeah Squadron 42 and Star Citizen are both developed by the same studios, some studios share more of the work than others but every studio end's up touching stuff from both games.

And yes both Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are productions of AAA degree, meaning that they have millions of dollars in budget and teams of hundreds of developers. Also you can have a AAA development studio with AAA quality developers/artists and never ship a game under your name because you were doing contract work for the big publishing studios.

This game would probably come out in 2019. If Chris Roberts had an actual boss. The guy can't manage for shit.

Yeap Chris Roberts should totally cut features and put it's dev's on permanent crunch mode to speed up the release just because some kid is eager to play it's games.

[kenn9530]

Fact is there will be PvE elements that will be impacted by people having P2W ships. You think there won't be an economy in the game? Guess who will have an advantage? Oh right. People that paid for better ships. Silly me.

How will that affect your fun in game, and how do you know it will be a clear advantage, yes your in a bigger ship but the income is split depending on the size of the crew so they may not even come out with much more that someone in the solo version of that class of ship.

We dont know how all the game mechanics will play out.

Can I get the source for this "fact", please?

Because you see, apparently the community only pulls out the “it’s not a pvp focused game!” when the P2W features are brought up, otherwise the answer is “It’s whatever you want it to be!”, meanwhile I found this:

In other words, there will ALWAYS be PvP in it, you can set it to "LOW PvP", which will make it harder to happen as long as you are in a "relatively safe area", if it's not, you'll have to deal with it regardless... soo... yeah...

i didnt say PvP was able to be turned off completely (although they have mentioned Private servers may come at some point), but if you have it set to the lowest and stay in safe space, then the likelyhood of a player attacking is going to be very low, unless you have something of worth on your ship there would be no point in going after that person would there.

We need to wait on the mechanics to be more finalised so we have more of an idea of how things can play out when the game is released.

The way pirating should work is they would disable your ship and board it or demand a ransom, or even kill the crew and steal the ship, destroying a ship for the sake of it would be rather pointless and the pirate would not gain as much.

[prwraith]

Yeap Chris Roberts should totally cut features and put it's dev's on permanent crunch mode to speed up the release just because some kid is eager to play it's games.

It's not about speed at this point. It's about feature creep and presenting a quality product. Can you honestly say you believe that a game with new features constantly announced, few of which are ever finished, is going to release a quality product anytime this century ? Even companies with greater knowledge and resources than him know what a bad idea it is to do this.

This is exactly what happened with some of his last games. He doesn't know when to say I've got a good product here. let's refine the features we do have and get it ready for launch. He lacks the ability. People like this are great idea people, they are not great managers.

He needs a manager to tell him when enough is enough. When to say we've got a complete package here. The way Roberts designs is like releasing all 3 borderlands as one insanely long, over complicated, story ridden, campaign. It's great in theory having all that content prequel, original, and sequel as one long campaign. But it doesn't make sense, it would cost WAY more than a game should, and would be MORE prone to bugs / glitches / crashes than a game that someone actually took time to refine.

[Kyanion]

How will that affect your fun in game, and how do you know it will be a clear advantage, yes your in a bigger ship but the income is split depending on the size of the crew so they may not even come out with much more that someone in the solo version of that class of ship.

We dont know how all the game mechanics will play out.

Do not pretend to tell me what would and would not affect my fun. I enjoy commerce, trading, Auction Houses and the like. If some fuckwit is getting a huge advantage because they paid real money to win in the game and I'm getting shafted because I wanted to earn my stuff in game and now I'm behind the economy game. Fuck that. That is pay 2 win.

Also you DON'T fucking know if it will be a big advantage or not. Stop trying to speak for that company. All we see right now is pay 2 win ships.

- - - Updated - - -

Yet we are still going around throwing out "facts" about it.

Seems to be a common theme. People sure do seem to know a lot about a game that isn't released and how this shit will all work is finalized and most of them love to handwave shit away. All I know is there is a massive fucking cash shop to buy ships.

[Odeezee]

For new comers here;
I didn't invest much and the current state of game is fun. I love landing on planets, search through wrecks(especially on the dark side of planets). I like it more than I like Elite. The feeling is deeper.
If you really hate bugs and crashes(doesn't happen too often), don't invest in this game yet.
Subscribe on website and wait for a freefly weekend to try it.

great advice!