Realistically, what do you think WoWs playerbase is at?

[Eleccybubb]

This thread is full of "outragous claims". No one here has any "proof" for any sub number.

Exactly. The only good guesses are the 2-5 million ones at best.

People saying 500k are just doing it because they are jaded with the game.

Ones saying 10-12 mil are just either doing it for a reaction or because the game can do no wrong to them.

[Jamie081]

You made the outrageous claim. The burden of proof is on you. You're living in a fantasy world if you honestly extrapolated from that reddit post that there are 10m subscriptions on launch of an expansion and we're banging around 6-7m right now.

You have no evidence to prove your salt-fuelled claims either though. You're so blinded by your own vendetta that you don't even realise you're pulling numbers out of your arse. BFA was received positively for a couple of weeks and then it dropped off VERY FAST. I personally smelled the shit from a mile away. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now, almost as if I'm some white knight defending the game when I'm doing anything but. We get it, you're bitter. Go outside.

Ones saying 10-12 mil are just either doing it for a reaction or because the game can do no wrong to them.

Case in point. You think because I mention a big number that it's somehow me suggesting that the game is great and there are 10m players currently playing. Stop putting words in my mouth because I'm not saying that.

[Eleccybubb]

You have no evidence to prove your salt-fuelled claims either though. You're so blinded by your own vendetta that you don't even realise you're pulling numbers out of your arse. BFA was received positively for a couple of weeks and then it dropped off VERY FAST. I personally smelled the shit from a mile away. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now, almost as if I'm some white knight defending the game when I'm doing anything but. We get it, you're bitter. Go outside.

I mean you've just been shown evidence that showed the 10.1 million was a misquote.

I don't think you can call anyone out on their claims at this point mate.

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Case in point. You think because I mention a big number that it's somehow me suggesting that the game is great and there are 10m players currently playing. Stop putting words in my mouth because I'm not saying that.

Nor did I say you were. The people in this thread doing it know who they are.

I merely said your 10.1 million Legion claim was a misquote on behalf of the journalist and that you should have provided the full information rather than partial information to suit your debate point.

[Jamie081]

I don't think you can call anyone out on their claims at this point mate.

Where's the evidence for anyone's numbers? I wasn't calling out for evidence before it was done to me. I point out his absence of evidence as an indicator of hypocrisy and now I'M the one being criticized for it?

[Dystemper]

Its a pretty safe bet that with the state of ATVI stock, that if Wow had a decent sub base, they would revert to using that to ease investors worries as a MAU/DAu metric is not working to do that

[Eleccybubb]

Where's the evidence for anyone's numbers? I wasn't calling out for evidence before it was done to me. I point out his absence of evidence as an indicator of hypocrisy and now I'M the one being criticized for it?

Your own evidence provided however was a misquote.

So your own evidence is worthless.

[Jamie081]

Your own evidence provided however was a misquote.

So your own evidence is worthless.

Why does this matter when no one has evidence? You too are now arguing for the sake of arguing, which judging by your post count is all you do.

[Eleccybubb]

Why does this matter when no one has evidence? You too are now arguing for the sake of arguing, which judging by your post count is all you do.

The irony in you calling out the "arguing for the sake of it" then going after someones post count which is completely irrelevant. Either stick to the topic or go off on your own tangent it's up to you. But if you want to go off on your own tangent then I'll end it here.

You made your own claim with evidence that the game at Legion had 10 million subscribers. You however either didn't know or deliberately left out the minor fact that Blizzard came out and said it was a misquote.

[Dystemper]

Where's the evidence for anyone's numbers? I wasn't calling out for evidence before it was done to me. I point out his absence of evidence as an indicator of hypocrisy and now I'M the one being criticized for it?

Evidence is MAU and DAU are down across the board. That s a very good indicator that WOW subs are down. The fact that WOW barely gets a mention in earnings calls any more is another good indicator of very low subs. Then throw in the cost cutting, employee buy outs, moving devs on to Mobile development etc etc . The dots are all there , you just have to connect them

[Hubbl3]

Evidence is MAU and DAU are down across the board. That s a very good indicator that WOW subs are down. The fact that WOW barely gets a mention in earnings calls any more is another good indicator of very low subs. Then throw in the cost cutting, employee buy outs, moving devs on to Mobile development etc etc . The dots are all there , you just have to connect them

Sure, but your 1M-1.5M worldwide is laughable.

[Lurker1]

Just purely going off guesses since we dont have access to numbers.
What do you think?
I would say were prob at like 4.5 Million.
What do you think?

5.5 million to 7 million is very reaslic based on the servers being very active i can see it with my own eyes its doing that good looking at server listing ftw logic!

[kamuimac]

6-7 mln - because BfA is extemly strong expansion seeing how populated all zones / invasions are and how many groups are forming everyhwere 24/7

regardless of what few forum whiners would like to belive. .

[Dystemper]

Sure, but your 1M-1.5M worldwide is laughable.

Why? The game is trending down in a big way. It is no longer as well liked in Asia and since China Banned WOW..

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5.5 million to 7 million is very reaslic based on the servers being very active i can see it with my own eyes its doing that good looking at server listing ftw logic!

LMAO...wait are you serious?

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6-7 mln - because BfA is extemly strong expansion seeing how populated all zones / invasions are and how many groups are forming everyhwere 24/7

regardless of what few forum whiners would like to belive. .

zones are "populated" because of CRZ and sharding. If you look everyone has a * after their name. Same with invasions and group forming, its all sharding and crz

[Lurker1]

Why? The game is trending down in a big way. It is no longer as well liked in Asia and since China Banned WOW..

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LMAO...wait are you serious?

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zones are "populated" because of CRZ and sharding. If you look everyone has a * after their name. Same with invasions and group forming, its all sharding and crz

Duh but im going by my pov based on my server plus other servers status from the WoW listing it's all logic and proof vs made up stuff people like you and others spew.

[JunkHead]

Probably 3-5 mil.

Closer to 5 mil when new content comes out. Closer to 3 mil in droughts.

Probably 4 mil now.

[Hubbl3]

Why? The game is trending down in a big way. It is no longer as well liked in Asia and since China Banned WOW..

You have sources on the China ban? Was "the list" official confirmed?

Anyway, 1M players WORLDWIDE would suggest that around 25%+ of the player base is raiding Mythic (and WoWprogress is only counting guild kills). Something that has never ever happened in WoWs history.

So yeah, WoW is down from the golden ages, but 1M or 1,5M is laughable low. Even considering MAUs and whatever.

[Fabinas]

Legion had 10M subs

I wonder how did you fart that estimation out, given that Blizzard announced about 3.5 mill BfA boxes/preorders sold till launch day.

[Rainyhealz]

I wouldn't go by population status on the realm list anymore. The status of realms hasn't changed since bfa launch. Clearly hiding something

[MoanaLisa]

Two to three million not counting China or anywhere in the Far East would be my guess. I have no fucking clue at all what's going on on the other side of the planet with World of Warcraft so won't even include that as part of a guess. I think there are a lot of players, perhaps a majority that are essentially invisible. They play a few times a month for a few hours or just on weekends. Blizzard knows who they are (me for one) but no one else does and it's not some strange thing to think that MMO-C users, which seems to contain either those who play a lot or those who have quit, don't take that into consideration. Trying to judge the number of subscribers based on who is raiding is a pretty perilous platform to purvey a position.

No clue what's going on in China but there's no evidence that it's banned there. Chinese government would apparently like to see chat cleaned up in a lot of games including WoW. So do we all but probably not in as extreme a way. "Inharmonious Chat" is a plague. If it comes to that they can disable chat in those countries.

When a new expansion releases subscriptions probably double for a couple of months. Game pays for itself with expansion sales. The rest is profit and fodder for development of other Blizzard projects.

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Legion had 10M subs

I wonder how did you fart that estimation out, given that Blizzard announced about 3.5 mill BfA boxes/preorders sold till launch day.

There's a story there. Chilton gave an interview to a Polish gaming magazine where he claimed that the start of Legion had topped up their subscriptions to 10.1 million. Blizzard rushed in to squash the story by saying they don't give out subscription numbers any longer and that Chilton never said that. They never denied the number though.

So, a dilemma: Did Chilton tell the truth accidentally (or on purpose)? He would certainly know. Did the magazine article just make up a quote out of nothing? That's the official story but it doesn't make any sense that they would gin up a question and answer out of whole cloth. It's a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

Personally I think that Chilton "forgot" and "accidentally" told the truth and Blizzard pulled him and the statement back in. But the idea that Legion at one early point had 10 million active subscriptions isn't just made-up forum crap. There's an actual source for it: The game director at the time. It certainly has more provenance than that stupid 1.7 million thing which everyone involved, including the developer of Weak Auras who started the whole thing, quickly walked away from, all of them making noises that it wasn't true. Whether or not you believe Chilton said it or not is your decision. I think he did.

One last point: An expansion can have a greatly increased number of subscriptions at the start and many fewer at the end when pre-sales for the next expansion start. Both things can be true. Don't pretend otherwise.

Anyway: Here's a summary of the Chilton thing (with quotes) which you can judge for yourselves: https://massivelyop.com/2016/10/04/b...n-subscribers/

[CaptainV]

This is the difference between then and now, while it is true that Legion and most likely BFA at the start of the first 2 weeks of expansion launch had 10 million subs, the retention for expansions has been lower than ever.

What was different in the TBC/WOTLK/Cata/MoP days is that retention was a thing, people stayed because there was more to do and more reason to stay.

This is also why I made my forum topic about WC4 and WoW2, I think a fresh canvas would actually encourage new players, many, many new players to join this game, who have never played wow before, but have heard of it, the young namely between 12-18 whom wow rarely attracts any more.

However, I stand by my origional assessment:

US: About 1.5 to 2 million.

EU: 500K to 1 million (defo obvious if your on EU atm).

China: Possibly 2.5 to 4 million

Total estimate: About 4.5 to 5.5 million.