Can we just TRY 1 expansion with long lasting loot?

[SirBeef]

Titanforging/warforging was added/needed to keep content relevant all expansion long. Not becasue more gear than ever drops. People want to see power increases with new raids/ I 5 ilvl bump won't do it. As proof by the multiple threads here on on the official forums about how the minimal ilv increase from leveling to WQ, or how the other rewards not from M+/raiding are insignificant and not worth the effort. This has been known from day one pretty much.

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I remember in TBC (and the system was kept for Wrath too iirc) you could do stuff and get some tokens of valor and could buy some gear. There was not a wide variety of gear sources, and these items were heroic dungeon level. For PvP there was available gear with rating or something.

I doubt people would have the joy to play a game where only raiding would award high ilvl gear as it was in the past. Also if you get a very high ilvl item (like 385) you most likely won't swap it for some time unless the stats ain't good for you.

And I clearly remember people bitching about that back then too.

[Laqweeta]

you could buy 25-man tier pieces with badges in wotlk i member

Yep! When RDF was released, you could farm HCs all day long if you wanted to.

You could get full T9 through RDF, but it wasn't cheap. In total it took about 50 heroic dungeon runs or so (5 emblems per dungeon).

Unfortunately this doesn't make sense with Activision's new metrics, so it's no wonder there's not non-target able gear available for such a system.

[guardian_titan]

Scenario: Loot is rare, you're more likely to only see upgrades in high end content, and you'll be lucky to upgrade a single piece every 3-6 months.

Probability 1: Player is excited every time a piece of new gear drops but equally ends up disappointed when the piece of gear isn't their BiS item or it's a duplicate of one they have already.

Probability 2: Player gets bored/pissed every time gear fails to drop (regardless if it's an upgrade/duplicate/downgrade) and either quit the content or the game.

It took me 7 YEARS to get the mount off Attumen in Kara. I'm STILL trying to get the one from Stratholme. I remember back in TBC, rogues were clamoring for Dragonspine Trophy off Gruul and we never saw it drop. When RNG is crap, it becomes demoralizing and can cause people to quit.

You know why Blizzard reduced the XP to level? It was because most players stopped playing before they ever hit level 20. Blizzard reduced XP and made it easier to level to encourage players to get past 20 to try to get into higher content. When Blizzard changed the loot system so drops are more regular, it was to combat the issue of some people never getting a drop for an entire raid tier. I actually started doing MH/BT back when I was still in Kara gear! I had very little from T5 content and none of my tier set at the time so ended up having to rely largely off badge gear. There's also the issue of not getting anything potentially meaning you get benched for someone who had better luck with RNG. Getting benched is even more demoralizing for people.

I didn't much like it when I saw others get drop after drop thanks to RNG while I was lucky to get one piece ... off a badge vendor once a month. Don't fool yourself into thinking in guild groups everyone's happy to help others get gear. There's more likely than not jealousy hiding behind those that didn't get anything, and that jealousy grows the longer someone gets nothing. Eventually, they either look elsewhere or quit.

But hey, if you want drops to last for months, classic will be out soon enough. That was a time where people had a hard time just finishing the dungeon sets let alone an entire raid tier set and you often started raids in blues.

[fiestatastic]

>not replacing your gear for 6 months
yeah, because that doesn't sound boring as fuck at all.

It wasn't, at all. It was really fun, all the way through MoP a lot of gear lasted for a lot longer than 6 months and I still remember the names of a lot of specific pieces while I don't know the name of a single piece of gear I have now.

It's all currently hyper disposable and I couldn't care less about any of it, upgrades are always meh as well. Too many upgrades belittles the meaning of all of them. They basically swapped out a once a month cocaine high for a weekly pixie stick.

[cparle87]

The reason Blizzard claim they need titanforging in the game now is because the game drops WAY MORE loot than it used to in say TBC. Raiders are showered with gear, and because of this, the raiders max out their gear from the raid so quickly that they need the titanforging mechanic as an incentive to keep farming it.

But it’s not fun. It’s not fun to be showered with gear. It’s not fun to replace gear every week. I get no excitement out of gear that gets replaced this quickly. Either via gear showering or catch up mechanics.

Why not at least TRY 1 expansion where we don’t? Where I get a piece of gear that can last for 6+ months. That I get exited about because it will last for 6+ months. That I know the name of because it will last for 6+ months. That people can go “Oh wow u got the Pants of Eternal Blessings??? WOW GRATS DUDE” for.

An expansion with clear best in slot lists you know where drops and you can get actually excited about, instead of this “better sim if this is an upgrade” game it has become.

This means no more catch up mecnahics. No more gear scaling (titanforging). No more random 2ndary stats.

This new system is simply not fun. We tried it "Blizzard's new thinking" way for several expansions now, it is still not fun.

Oh hell no. I've run into so many powerful trinkets that are so brokenly strong that I had to use them, but had effects that I absolutely despised and couldn't wait to get rid of. The gnome summoning trinket from ToT, the blademaster mirror and soul mirror from HFC. I was so glad to be be able to get rid of those.

[styil]

The problem with Titanforging is that I'm only given, say, 80% of a full item at a base level, then I have to rely completely on a dice roll till I unlock 85% of the item (warforged), 90% (Titanforged), 95%, and finally the full 100%. It makes it feel like a punishment when I'm not rewarded the full item.

I'd rather not have Titanforging and just wait a little longer until I get 100% of the item outright.

[Coronius]

World of Warcraft is built upon constant progression. Without new gear to strive for, there's no point whatsoever in playing the game.

"It's fun" doesn't cut it as an excuse, because that alone is not incentive enough for people to keep playing.

[cparle87]

If anything, that's ALWAYS happened except with Legion and... idk, Vanilla maybe?

And also remember in those cases they had to hotfix the trinkets when the next xpac dropped so people would HAVE to replace them. I can totally see people still using things like the soul capacitor to this day, it was completely disconnected from stats and scaled with you.

[hulkgor]

The reason Blizzard claim they need titanforging in the game now is because the game drops WAY MORE loot than it used to in say TBC. Raiders are showered with gear, and because of this, the raiders max out their gear from the raid so quickly that they need the titanforging mechanic as an incentive to keep farming it.

But it’s not fun. It’s not fun to be showered with gear. It’s not fun to replace gear every week. I get no excitement out of gear that gets replaced this quickly. Either via gear showering or catch up mechanics.

Why not at least TRY 1 expansion where we don’t? Where I get a piece of gear that can last for 6+ months. That I get exited about because it will last for 6+ months. That I know the name of because it will last for 6+ months. That people can go “Oh wow u got the Pants of Eternal Blessings??? WOW GRATS DUDE” for.

An expansion with clear best in slot lists you know where drops and you can get actually excited about, instead of this “better sim if this is an upgrade” game it has become.

This means no more catch up mecnahics. No more gear scaling (titanforging). No more random 2ndary stats.

This new system is simply not fun. We tried it "Blizzard's new thinking" way for several expansions now, it is still not fun.

What an absurd suggestion. Really.

Let's all thank the fact that you don't make decisions regarding WoW.

[agentsi]

I honestly love this idea. It was always more rewarding to get that one item you saw someone else have for months. Then you yourself could work up to it, and have it for a long time as well. Then the next item, and so on and so forth. When loot is falling all over the place, no item is special. Outside of those rare trinkets and weapons that everyone wants.

[Mic_128]

Why not at least TRY 1 expansion where we don’t? Where I get a piece of gear that can last for 6+ months. That I get exited about because it will last for 6+ months. That I know the name of because it will last for 6+ months. That people can go “Oh wow u got the Pants of Eternal Blessings??? WOW GRATS DUDE” for.

The only reason people got excited like that was because loot also dropped a hell of a lot less. More people were needed minimum in a raid, and there was a lot less loot in both loot tables and the number of pieces that actually dropped.

[MrExcelion]

I would agree that last tiers mythic should not be equivalent to next tier's normal. Equiv to next tier's heroic would be seen as ideal to some here but I really think there's a better middleground here. Maybe like this tier's mythic is 385. Next tiers normal 380. 5 ilvls higher. (or 10 or 15 depending on your preference)

At the same time, you could also argue that there should be a warforge cap (10 ilvls?). Sort of how HFC was basically, get 6ilvls or a socket. The WF/TF system adds more pressure for these aggressive gear resets.

[analmoose]

So...the legendary system from Legion? I heard that went down super well.

TBH I don't get the hate for that system. The flavor items were nice, could tweak your playstyle just a little, gave you something to chase. 8/10, would recommend they bring it back

the only people I remember being mad were those that always gotta min max and have the absolute best piece, and just didn't get the drop. qq

[Muajin76]

well actually..nobody is forcing you to change gear lol. So you can keep the same gear on to make it last :P

[Baroclinic]

QQ post. Unless you have a super titanforged piece, it's still getting swapped next tier... well maybe. RNG is a horse mistress sometimes outside of Conquest Pieces.

[darklogrus]

>not replacing your gear for 6 months
yeah, because that doesn't sound boring as fuck at all.

Thats basically what happens when they release the final raid anyways lol. Besides, it wasnt that long ago when it was a yr+ in the same gear..

[durrtygoodz]

So...the legendary system from Legion? I heard that went down super well.

No, the system we had before titanforging where you could get a drop from the raid and it's your best item and don't replace it until next raid.

A system where titanforging can happen in any content any time sounds exciting but in reality has created complete apathy towards loot and people are ditching the game.

[Twdft]

The problem with Titanforging is that I'm only given, say, 80% of a full item at a base level, then I have to rely completely on a dice roll till I unlock 85% of the item (warforged), 90% (Titanforged), 95%, and finally the full 100%. It makes it feel like a punishment when I'm not rewarded the full item.

I'd rather not have Titanforging and just wait a little longer until I get 100% of the item outright.

But on your quest to get the 100% item you would be running around in a 50% dungeon blue instead of an 80% now. Which would lead to tuning the raids for an average 50% ilvl so they would be piss easy again like in classic were you could literally have 10 guys afk and another 10 not knowing what buttons they have to press anyway and you still beat the raids.

[Logwyn]

Sorry to be rude but fuck that idea.

This is why I play alts in BfA. I have 4 toons almost 380 with only running Uldir like 5 times this whole tier.

Gearing up is just too easy, there's too many avenues. I'm too old school to enjoy this system. Raids, in my opinion, should always drop the best trinkets, weapons and gear while M+ drops great gear but not bis.

So the content YOU enjoy should be the only path way?

[Spiral Mage]

BLIZ stated they added WF/TF because the game was not exciting anymore, gearing up was static, direct and unsurprising. With WF/TF, you never know for sure when something might drop that's an upgrade and to a certain degree, even from where. The system unquestionably has it's issues but I'd keep it for the pros, over going back to how things were before, due to it's cons.