Content is too Slow

[Amaterasu65]

There are many things to do in game, most are just stale, outright boring with meaningless rewards. World PvP is imbalanced as well, so you can't have fun outside of organized environments. Content is slow because it's not enough to last an entire patch cycle, either because it's too little content or low quality.

[Battlebeard]

Lmao who the fuck cares about mounts and achievements...hes asking after meaningful content that actually progress your character in some way, not boring stuff that is irrelevant.

I admit that sometimes I generalize too much, and I appologize for that. But you are generalazing even more, and in a more rude way. There are thousands of players who care about mounts and achievements. I slacked in Legion but still have 28500 achiv points and that's barely on top 3000 in the world, still it's alot above avarage. I So tons and tons of people do care for such things and we find it meaningful and very relevant for us.

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That's not really fair though. Not everyone enjoy mount/pet/achievement collecting. Some only play the game for specific reasons, very few people are Asmongolds that do everything. To many, once raiding or PvP has gotten stale, they get bored and move on to other games before the next season.

Well, it's kind of fair. Because not everyone care about story, lore etc either. I absolutely don't care about story and I skipped every cutscene ever. I also just powerlevel and never read a quest text. Collecting is fun to me however. And that's the thing, everyone like different things and the game needs different things to do. Blizzard ARE NOT, like many think, a company with unlimited money and resources. If they are gonna balance the game with things for everything to do, including PvP, collecting, story, raids and much more, we can't have unlimited of all of these things.

Yes, OP and other people could get more content they like, BUT that could result in less content for pvpers, collectors etc, and that would be unfair in return. Right now, there ARE alot to do, even if you dont like all of it, and you have to realize thats how a game like this works. Unless they tenfold their earnings, this is how it will be.

[Frontenac]

Yeh only having 3 playable zones sucks. Doing world quests don't count cause they don't actually tell a story. I'm never playing alliance. Fuck those cucks. Who thought it would be a good idea to have half of the content be faction specific?

It's not that different from leveling. Horde characters didn't play the same stories as Alliance characters. It's even more true since Cataclysm. My opinion is that it is your problem if you deprive yourself of half of the story because you don't like the Alliance. I prefer the Alliance, but I still have a Horde character to see what is happening in Zandalar. Also, you have a glimpse of the enemy zones in the war campaign. I generaly like those quests.

[Battlebeard]

You are absolutely right man .
brb gonna do 2000 pet battles in draenor

There is not need to make fun of people who are collectors. I never said this is something you have to do or are supposed to do, just that you CAN do it and that there is plenty of content out there, whether one likes it or not.

[Extremities]

Yeah, I'm talking about the pace in general. even 8.1 had only an ant's dick length of story and nothing major. There is just nothing to look forward to.

What this guy said here ^^^^

Only an ant's dick length of story and than you wait wait and wait some more. What the fuck is with Blizzard? They're going downhill and fast. First the CFO for Activision and now the CFO for Blizzard leave, Blizzards stock is tanking, rumors of tons of pay cuts company wide, I personally know people who worked at Blizzard recently who said they were being worked to death with very little pay and zero chance of promotion or pay increase so they quit and went elsewhere. The almighty Blizzard as we knew it is no more.

Proof is in the pudding... WoW's update's are fucking horrible now. The 5 buddies I have who we played regularly are all bored to death after a few weeks of mythic+ dungeons cause there was nothing else to do and nothing new in the foreseeable future that looked fun. No new dungeons, only the raid, island expeditions being the worst fucking thing they've ever introduced, warfronts are boring as fuck, world quests are well.. more world quests. There's absolutely jack shit to look forward to. But hey lets add another mount to the in-game store mmk? mkk. And yet, some people will defend them.

[Tesshin20]

Okay. So... the reason for the gated content is we all know that if they released the entire storyline on patch day, people will burn through it in 3 hours and then complain there is nothing more to do untill the next patch. By gating it, they are actually saving you, from yourself.

Also the story follows events in the game, which happen over time.

In general I just fail to understand how people can make the objective claim that there is nothing to do. This comes down on how much of the game you play. If your interest in the game is only doing your rotation, and this is the only content FOR YOU, then ofc you are judging the game mostly only on class depth and balance.

Personally I enjoy so much of the game like story, music, scenery, leveling low level characters, farming new pets, toys, transmog gear, doing achievements, skilling up archaeology, reading all the quests in the different zones on multiple characters, mythic raiding, mythic +, rated battlegrounds, getting more AP etc. I play 8-10 hours a day and I am constantly worrying I will ever get around to everything I want to do.

I think its only sad that some people only stick to 2% of what the game has to offer.

[CaptainV]

We've had major patches not centered around a new raid as recently as 7.1.

And people would give even less crap about 4 tiers existing in an xpac when only 10% of players get to see past the first one, like it was in BC.

We had a storyline like that in 5.1.

This just in, Blizz has multiple teams making multiple things. Getting rid of raiding isn't magically going to make there be more outdoor content.

Your opinion that raiding is dead is that, your opinion.

And here we have an ancient beast returning from its slumber after last being active during WoD. The "it's not actual content if it's not something I enjoy" troll.

7.1 was the release of Kharazan, and Suramar ironically, which meant it was essentially a raid patch disguised as a dungeon patch.

5.1 Was 3 expansions ago now man, thats a damn bad refference to use compared to now.

Blizzard teams doing multiple things is certainly a given, but what isnt an excuse is how lackluster and lazy they've become in making more content that isnt just centered "around" raiding, why does 8.2 have to exclusivly be released when nazjatar is? Why not have 8.3 be Nazjatar, 8.4 be Black Empire, 8.5 be Ny'alotha, why must everything be a raid patch with content?

7.1.5 was the only one that excluded some kind of raid content being thrown in so far with 7.2.5 being black temple timewalking and 7.3.5 being ulduar timewalker.

8.1.5 comes with a new mini raid so they can slow down progress yet again with the games content having 4 tiers of raiding with the new shrine of the storm raid, brawlers guild and arathi/warsong stuff is great sure, so is the new portal room, but kul'tirans and zandalar trolls being unlocked didnt need to be a .5 patch feature they just didnt want us to have them because its a carrot on a stick.

So its a pretty inexcusable logic to justify blizzards lackluster content lately, with the only defence being that people who are content are either so casual they never play wow more than 2-3 hours a week, or they just dont care about the rest of the playerbase.

This isnt trolling pal, this is straight up harsh facts, also, Raiding loosing its tiers wouldnt hurt anyone but a very small minority. Raiding is already something most dont even bother with these days since you can quite literally skip tiers of raids to reach end game now.

Theres topics on this already regarding how ilevels are meaningless since you can in essence avoid ever touching Normal or LFR just because open world gives you gear equal to heroic now.

[Alopex Major]

Just watch the cinematics on YouTube for free, save your money and buy a game with actual story and good writing.

[Darsithis]

Are you really complaining there is nothing to do? I can't see your armory, but unless you have close to every mount, every achievement, honor level 500 and 390ilvl, then, get to work, there is A LOT to do.

I find this argument super annoying. Not everyone wants to chase mounts, pets, and achievements. To some people, the game might be boring once they've cleared the current raid and have it on farm and there isn't much else they just want to do.

[Stevano]

Are you really complaining there is nothing to do? I can't see your armory, but unless you have close to every mount, every achievement, honor level 500 and 390ilvl, then, get to work, there is A LOT to do.

After done every piece of content the game has to offer 50 times, no need to do it 10 more times again on a bit harder difficulty to see what it has to offer.

[Deleted]

Well, now we have to talk about lenght of patches and raids. The game has become too easy to gear in and people don't want to farm raids, even though that was the intention from the start of the game.

In vanilla, 40man bosses dropped TWO items. This way, the raids lasted longer (for good or bad). I can't speak for mythic but With this much loot, as well as easy loot trading etc, one can finish HC Uldir in like 2 resets and have 375ilvl. Ofc you (not YOU specific, generalazing) want the next raid cause you outgear HC uldir, don't raid mythic and get discouraged to farm for WF/TF.

I really think the 2-year expansions are great, would be fine with 3 years too. I 2 years = 24 months / 3 major patches/raids = almost 8 months per raid, and I think that is good. But tiresome cuase we gear too fast

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Care to elaborate what you mean?

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How do you define engaging content? I think the game has gotten too grindy since Legion and BFA, but what we have had qualitywise so to speak, are amazing raids and a fairly okey M+ system (I don't do PvP, cant judge that part). And compared to previous expansions, although I miss challenge modes, it's overall a lot to do PvE wise with good quality.

Don't think the problem is the number of drops per raid, but the fact that theres 4 difficulty levels.

I really hope the devs realise it can't go on like this. Raids need to be an achievement again. Not handed in a platter as a right, and not limited by fixed formats(make it flex). We only need one difficulty with ulduar like hard mode's. It would solve countless problems. LFR/pug crowd has warfronts and low mythic+. Guilds have raids and organised groups high mythic+.
Raids have to feel like something special again. With LFR, multiple difficulties and the loss of class armor, they have lost what makes them enticing.

Another solution, wich i don't like as much, would be to actually gate the raids themselves. Something of the sort has been done with the Sunwell. The idea is that the raids unlocks partially across the months and theres a sizeable difficulty jump between each wing. It would be cynical, but it would keep players strung along to see the next bosses. It would have the side effect of reducing the content available at patch launch though, with raid nights ending after 3 bosses per se.

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Just watch the cinematics on YouTube for free, save your money and buy a game with actual story and good writing.

And what mmo would that be? SWTOR? Cause as much as i love it, it gets hardly any support. FFXIV? I like it but it bores me to tears with that long ass GCD and the whole overall slower pace of the game. Again, there's a lot to like, but if i can't enjoy the combat, i just cba. GW2? It's fun, but extremely grindy and unfocused. Theres no gear treadmill, and i no longer care to play just for cosmetics. It looks like a clown fest as well cause of their reliance on the cash shop. Completely imersion breaking.

So, i'd like to know. If you mean a SP game, it's not really the same. I can play SP games and WoW.

So, i'm interested to know what this other game is, cause i sure looked for it, but WoW was the best i could find.

[Ungeir]

Don't think the problem is the number of drops per raid, but the fact that theres 4 difficulty levels.

I really hope the devs realise it can't go on like this. Raids need to be an achievement again. Not handed in a platter as a right, and not limited by fixed formats(make it flex). We only need one difficulty with ulduar like hard mode's. It would solve countless problems. LFR/pug crowd has warfronts and low mythic+. Guilds have raids and organised groups high mythic+.
Raids have to feel like something special again. With LFR, multiple difficulties and the loss of class armor, they have lost what makes them enticing.

I agree with your premise, but not your solution. Raids have lost their "magic" and no longer provide the end-game carrot and sense of a larger world. I think it was Tigole who said back in Vanilla that the content players do not see, still has a function for those players in providing a sense of wonder and mystery. That worked pretty darn well back then - many players were perfectly happy just doing dungeons, pvp, questing, exploring, etc.

However, MMOs aren't the unexplored territory they used to be - even casual players gobble up content so fast, that companies, including Blizzard have felt forced to squeeze the content they make for everything it's worth: Time-gating, multiple difficulty levels, automated queues, etc.

There's no going back to a time when players accepted having a major portion of the endgame only available to organized raiders. It's not just a difficulty issue - it's a scheduling and social issue. Most players will not accept having to dedicate large blocks of time on a schedule. And without raids, there's even less content, and players will bleed at an even faster rate. Wildstar showed beyond a doubt that the raiding scene cannot support a game on it's own, and non-raiders need more repeatable content and progression than they used to do.

Warframe, Path of Exile, and more, have shown that it is possible to provide content and progression for many different kinds of players. I think that's what they tried to do, but failed to achieve, with Island Expeditions. They're scrambling to provide meaningful gameplay after the initial expansion blitz. Removing content is not going to help on it's own.

They can do what you suggest - but it would require that they have actual progression and repeatable content in place for players who want more freeform play than organied raiding. The mainstream gamer needs to be able to log in, play for 30-60 minutes, and have meaningful progression. Many will play more. But if progression requires adhering to a raiding schedule, the game will die. If Mythic+ is too little content, it's grindy and it's boring. It cannot carry the game alone. World quests suffer from the same problem.

I guess if Blizzard are willing to accept a much smaller playerbase, and can provide enough content on the resulting much reduced budget to keep those players around - your suggestion does make sense. But I'm not sure it would be profitable enough to keep the game viable for long. Blizzard also doesn't have a history of catering to the hardcore.

In the long run I think they need to reinvent the game somehow, introducing something repeatable and fun to keep the non-raiders around. Otherwise they'll keep bleeding players until the game devolves into a cash shop driven parody of it's former glory. To be honest I think they'll fail - mostly because they are prioritizing other projects. Classic could very well be the final nail in the coffin if it becomes the embarassing fiasco I expect it to be.

[crusadernero]

Don't think the problem is the number of drops per raid, but the fact that theres 4 difficulty levels.

I really hope the devs realise it can't go on like this. Raids need to be an achievement again. Not handed in a platter as a right, and not limited by fixed formats(make it flex). We only need one difficulty with ulduar like hard mode's. It would solve countless problems. LFR/pug crowd has warfronts and low mythic+. Guilds have raids and organised groups high mythic+.
Raids have to feel like something special again. With LFR, multiple difficulties and the loss of class armor, they have lost what makes them enticing.

Another solution, wich i don't like as much, would be to actually gate the raids themselves. Something of the sort has been done with the Sunwell. The idea is that the raids unlocks partially across the months and theres a sizeable difficulty jump between each wing. It would be cynical, but it would keep players strung along to see the next bosses. It would have the side effect of reducing the content available at patch launch though, with raid nights ending after 3 bosses per se.

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And what mmo would that be? SWTOR? Cause as much as i love it, it gets hardly any support. FFXIV? I like it but it bores me to tears with that long ass GCD and the whole overall slower pace of the game. Again, there's a lot to like, but if i can't enjoy the combat, i just cba. GW2? It's fun, but extremely grindy and unfocused. Theres no gear treadmill, and i no longer care to play just for cosmetics. It looks like a clown fest as well cause of their reliance on the cash shop. Completely imersion breaking.

So, i'd like to know. If you mean a SP game, it's not really the same. I can play SP games and WoW.

So, i'm interested to know what this other game is, cause i sure looked for it, but WoW was the best i could find.

I agree. Remove LFR at the very least. Make raids, the gear there and everything feel more special and cool. Im saying this as someone who has been pug raiding HC mode for years. Relied on strangers, for good and bad.

Its just a bland gear casino run at this point. It feels like nothing really matters anymore. Whatever we do in game, its just so bland.

It feels like the people who first made wow are far and gone, and the new people in charge got way different views or even connection to the game and the universe.

[jstnw89]

Gotta artificially make this shallow filler expansion last as long as possible

[Kynario]

I find this argument super annoying. Not everyone wants to chase mounts, pets, and achievements. To some people, the game might be boring once they've cleared the current raid and have it on farm and there isn't much else they just want to do.

Exactly. You didn’t have to be Sergeant General, nor raiding Naxxrammas, nor have every reputation on Exalted in Vanilla in order to enjoy it. There were tons of other things to do.

Not having 100% from everything and every bar filled doesn’t mean you have nothing to do. It’s that you don’t have anything meaningful or fun to do, and that’s what matters.

[Kallisto]

Exactly. You didn’t have to be Sergeant General, nor raiding Naxxrammas, nor have every reputation on Exalted in Vanilla in order to enjoy it. There were tons of other things to do.

Like what, Dungeons? Still there and more of them at max level. Quests in the world in vanilla at max level? Not really. All you did is grind mobs for a few hours to get yourself ready to raid. Which if you are willing you can still do.

End Game in vanilla was so shallow WoD had more.

[Nebron]

Gating, gating, and more gating. No news, no updates, nothing.

The story is being dragged out so much even DBZ is put to shame. Just what the fuck Blizz??

We still don't know what in the fuck Sylv-Anus is about, what will happen to Saurfang. Nothing. I'm sick and tired of waiting already.

Well, I wrote it a while ago. What you should know, and actually Blizzard in the first place, although some stories in MMORPG game might feel great, the story of Sylvanas doesn't fit either the players expectations nor, and most importantly, this genre pacing.

Releasing the patches in 4-6 months cycles doesn't work for 'Game-of-throne-ish' storytelling with behind-the-scenes plotting and plot twists. In Legion they tried to use that smart idea, although gated, of releasing bits of stories in 1 week intervals. It surely helps the story to feel more alive, but still, not enough in my opinion.

Another thing is that there are waaaaaay too many plots being told simultenously, and too many characters being involved (which as the consequence diminish their role in the entire story). Therefore, story of Sylvanas is now a secondary thing, with Saurfang 'redemption?' being the primary one. Not even a war matters now that much. The problem is - we have no clue what is going on. Not even a slightest idea. And wheter it's something original or something we have been talking about for months (N'zoth for example), it won't feels satisfying for most of players focused on the story aspect of the game. We have no clue what the motives, that drives some characters to madness are, and any huge revelation at the end of this expansion would be more of a support to the next expansion's plot than BfA's satisfying climax.

[Soon-TM]

Well, I wrote it a while ago. What you should know, and actually Blizzard in the first place, although some stories in MMORPG game might feel great, the story of Sylvanas doesn't fit either the players expectations nor, and most importantly, this genre pacing.

Releasing the patches in 4-6 months cycles doesn't work for 'Game-of-throne-ish' storytelling with behind-the-scenes plotting and plot twists. In Legion they tried to use that smart idea, although gated, of releasing bits of stories in 1 week intervals. It surely helps the story to feel more alive, but still, not enough in my opinion.

Another thing is that there are waaaaaay too many plots being told simultenously, and too many characters being involved (which as the consequence diminish their role in the entire story). Therefore, story of Sylvanas is now a secondary thing, with Saurfang 'redemption?' being the primary one. Not even a war matters now that much. The problem is - we have no clue what is going on. Not even a slightest idea. And wheter it's something original or something we have been talking about for months (N'zoth for example), it won't feels satisfying for most of players focused on the story aspect of the game. We have no clue what the motives, that drives some characters to madness are, and any huge revelation at the end of this expansion would be more of a support to the next expansion's plot than BfA's satisfying climax.

I agree. For a "story-driven expansion", in Ion's own words, they are making a quite poor job at crafting an at least decent story. For anyone not having read Before the Storm, which I'd wager it's the vast majority of players, the current war doesn't really make sense. The comics at WoW's official site are nifty, but simply inadequate/incomplete for proper storytelling.

[Muajin76]

anyone else sides me that enjoys the occasional cyber now and then? heck..even cybering during raids . ;D

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and for the peeps think that the content is too slow. why not do stuff out of game, have a social life...etc. If you're not into farming lvls on alts/xmog hunting.

[Coco13]

I agree. i like the comics at WoW's official site.