What is the OP advantage of Regeneratin'?

[Trend]

What fights are there in Uldir where the entire raid doesn't take any damage for a set duration, no mobility required immediately after, and following a large burst of damage? The single fight I can think of is Taloc. Congratulations, you'll get 1/8 on X difficulty with an entire raid of Zandalari Trolls. MOTHER also meets this for people passing the wall, but killing adds is a hell of a lot more important than saving your healers 4% of their mana.

My example for Rogues was strictly in a sense of arena, because every single other class and spec has no opportunity to get the full reset required to make use of this in a legitimately even fight. If an enemy player is getting use out of Regeneratin' against you under any other circumstances, you've either already lost the match or you got severely outplayed. Besides that, any serious match will have a healer present that doesn't need to worry about mana against any spec except Havoc, and even that's inconsistent as a threat.

The only other classes that can drop DoT/periodic effects are Mage and Paladin. Spoiler alert: Paladin has self-healing in all 3 specs, and if you're Ice Blocking into Regen on a Mage...

So you confirm that you don't know raiding and you don't know PvP ... and yet you continue to be condescending.

In any case, I was responding to your question of why people were not responding to your other post. This is why. I generally won't bother arguing with someone who says wrong things in a very forceful and condescending way.

[Fritters154]

Guilds are going to change faction for a new racial? I've heard it all now

Errrr...yes? That has literally been the pattern in WoW since faction changes began. Not that many will shift at this point since there is already an enormous faction imbalance between horde/alliance in mythic PVE because horde racials were already considered to be superior to alliance ones for PVE content. Zandalari only serves to reinforce that.

[The Anax]

Errrr...yes? That has literally been the pattern in WoW since faction changes began. Not that many will shift at this point since there is already an enormous faction imbalance between horde/alliance in mythic PVE because horde racials were already considered to be superior to alliance ones for PVE content. Zandalari only serves to reinforce that.

Well, do not forget the poll from months ago. Before we ever knew anything about any of this, I think it showed 70% or more MMO champ people were going to play a Zandalarian troll. So, it seemed to already have a very wide appeal. However, I'll have to wait and see what entire guilds shift over for this very situational self heal.

[Cyanu]

So, like you said, you'd want to focus on the Zandalarian rogue in PvP. Of course, since regeneratin' can't be used in stealth, so, how is it any different than getting out of combat by vanishing and then running off to eat? Witha single tick how is it any different than drinking a potion?

So, you did not answer the main question though, if you say this will benefit tanks, what tanks that the Horde is using right now will the require be replaced by a Zandalarian?

come on man are you serious? even if you cast it on their face, a single tick is significant healing (and potions are not useable in rated PVP)... and that's not going to the more obvious uses, like mage, blinks behind pillar, heals to near 100%

essentially any class with mobility can pull this off, but on mage it's particularly ridiculous since it's way too easy and mage is balanced around the fact that he has no heal (warrior is a similar case too), hunter can use it during aspect of the turtle, while on the other classes it's still pretty useful (for instance yes a ww monk has heals but it takes way more time and mana to heal to 100%)

essentially any time a zandalari player is not focused he can just heal to full in a mere ~3 seconds (not it's never 4 because we have haste and obviously the player is not at 0% if he's casting this)

no other RACIAL defensive ability is anywhere near that level

and even in PvE, having every player able to heal himself to full in a pinch is no joke, it's a major defensive button on a medium cd, besides they have dps racials too, it's not like you miss out on some other department

[ONCHEhap]

Can you give me some examples that would not have just been the same person running away to eat or heal through a spell or something? I think divine sheiold and ice block might be the only two, because there's magic, curses, bleeds, and diseases, and I think only those two will make them all go away. Maybe cloak of shadows does too, but a rogue could just run off and heal up on their own. So, let's say you are in a BG and a mage and you are being attacked by three or four people, let's say hunter, warrior, druid, and a DH. So you use ice block, now when or how do I use my regeneratin'? Or you can replace mage with Pally and I sheild, now, where do I go to regenerate, or do you think all those attackers and such will just leave me alone, suddenly? And, even if they do, and I run off behind a building, wouldn't I now be out of combat and just eat? I'm no getting it. If an ALliance is attacking any Zanda player, won't they just be waiting for any chance to interupt the channel, unless in very rare lucky situations (which we all have on all races/classes in different ways)

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How does the tank remove all DoT's and aggro in your example?

there's something called an offtank,and you'll never find someone better at managing their damage intake than a tank,it's quite litterally their job

And even if they can't,well,that's still 25% of their health healed from one tick,which is ridiculously massive

[Kagthul]

My thought on this is that, since regenratin' cannot be used in stealth, then it's the same as running off and eating food.
.

So... your thought is that 5% per second from eating is the same as 25% per second?

You are astonishingly bad at math.

Anyway, lets see what other classes can do to benefit from this OP monstrosity, just off the top of my head.

Paladin:
Bubble > Regeneratin'; dont have to waste your entire mana bar for Ret or Prot spamming your heal. Just Bubble > Boom full HP.
HoJ > Regeneratin'
Radiance > Regeneratin'

Hunter: (Feign wipes DoTs if talented)
Feign > Turtle > Regeneratin
Feign > Disengage > Regeneratin (vs Melee classes)
Feing > Trap > Regeneratin

even if all you get is a single tick ... thats 25% of your HP. Thats HUGE. Thats like having a Healthstone. At all times, pretty much, since the cooldown is only a little longer than the Healthstone! AND YOU CAN STILL HAVE A HEALTHSTONE.

And those are just the two classes that came immediately to mind in the 30 seconds it took to type it out. If i sat down, im sure i can break the eff out of this.

[The Anax]

come on man are you serious? even if you cast it on their face, a single tick is significant healing (and potions are not useable in rated PVP)... and that's not going to the more obvious uses, like mage, blinks behind pillar, heals to near 100%

essentially any class with mobility can pull this off, but on mage it's particularly ridiculous since it's way too easy and mage is balanced around the fact that he has no heal (warrior is a similar case too), hunter can use it during aspect of the turtle, while on the other classes it's still pretty useful (for instance yes a ww monk has heals but it takes way more time and mana to heal to 100%)

essentially any time a zandalari player is not focused he can just heal to full in a mere ~3 seconds (not it's never 4 because we have haste and obviously the player is not at 0% if he's casting this)

no other RACIAL defensive ability is anywhere near that level

and even in PvE, having every player able to heal himself to full in a pinch is no joke, it's a major defensive button on a medium cd

I disagree in that even a DoT stops it from happening. As far as mage goes, I used to have a glyph where my invocation would also heal me (In fact, I think it was literally this regenertain except I also got mana back). Of course, DoT's did not interrupt it. If you are PvPing a Zanda, and you allow them to get away or get of a tic, isn't that on you? Like, I am always ready to use my silences, but in this case, the silence against regenertain is literally anything on your toolbar or the DoT that the poor troll already has from any other player attacking him or her.

[Socialhealer]

LOL try playing the game?

If you play the game, try opening your eyes? try pvp? try raid?

IF you still don't know you're shit at the game and you should probably try improving at the game because you're probably one of the worst players to ever exist.

seriously even a 50% heal on a 1.5 minute cooldown is amazing for raids, the amount of time there's is zero damage going out and dps can just top themselves is fucking nuts, just think about anytime a boss transitions healers can just all sleep mana potion don't need to heal the raid because all dps top themselves, how can any racial compete with that?

This is easily on par with some of the best survival cooldowns in the game like ice block or divine shield or cloak, with a much lower cooldown and available to a ton of classes.

If this isn't nerfed hope you enjoy watching methods would first kill with 18-20 Zandalari trolls in it.

[tangers58]

Its ok to admit you just want their racial to be OP. You dont have to keep being purposefully dense.

I feel like he can't help himself, either its a compulsion or he really is that dense

[Fritters154]

Well, do not forget the poll from months ago. Before we ever knew anything about any of this, I think it showed 70% or more MMO champ people were going to play a Zandalarian troll. So, it seemed to already have a very wide appeal. However, I'll have to wait and see what entire guilds shift over for this very situational self heal.

There will likely be some shift toward horde and no shift towards alliance with Zandalari and Kul'tiran since Kul'tiran really isn't bringing anything new to the table in terms of PVE support, but I wouldn't expect to see it be particularly apparent at the faction level this far into pre-existing faction imbalance. Only 11 of the first 100 guilds to clear Uldir were Alliance anyway. If guilds change, it will likely be those remaining 11 or maybe some others in the 101-300 ranking range.

[The Anax]

So... your thought is that 5% per second from eating is the same as 25% per second?

You are astonishingly bad at math.

Anyway, lets see what other classes can do to benefit from this OP monstrosity, just off the top of my head.

Paladin:
Bubble > Regeneratin'; dont have to waste your entire mana bar for Ret or Prot spamming your heal. Just Bubble > Boom full HP.
HoJ > Regeneratin'
Radiance > Regeneratin'

Hunter: (Feign wipes DoTs if talented)
Feign > Turtle > Regeneratin
Feign > Disengage > Regeneratin (vs Melee classes)
Feing > Trap > Regeneratin

even if all you get is a single tick ... thats 25% of your HP. Thats HUGE. Thats like having a Healthstone. At all times, pretty much, since the cooldown is only a little longer than the Healthstone! AND YOU CAN STILL HAVE A HEALTHSTONE.

And those are just the two classes that came immediately to mind in the 30 seconds it took to type it out. If i sat down, im sure i can break the eff out of this.

I'm bad at math, but you appear poor at manners. And, since it is in testing, I am unsure how it works in regards to what you just said. It might not even be castable in a pally bubble or under a hunter turtle. If a melee class is fighting the hunter wouldn't the warrior or rogue or whatever use one of their throws to interrupt the regeneratin. If soemone uses the HoJ on you, why not break out of it with your tirnket and interrupt their regeneratin (of course the pally would just as likely used a heal on themselves). You are tlaking about 1 vs 1 anyway here, which, even then unless you are dueling someone or you are out in the middle of no where with wrmode on would happen, and 1 vs 1 is never balanced anyway...

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I feel like he can't help himself, either its a compulsion or he really is that dense

It's possible that my autism is playing a role, but it is possible that I am not wrong as well. Basically, anything is possible, as dense as that sounds.

In fact, to me, Brush it Off seems pretty good It's like two racials in one with versatility and you get 2% mitigation. They also get 1% reduction to Frost and Nature, which is another two racials in one. And they also get a stun and knock back (I think).

[AngerFork]

Well, obviously they are testing it right now to determine if it is OP and how OP it is, if it even is OP. However, my answer to "How is it not OP" is that all those times those Zandas used it, other variables were removed. You said, what 6 times? So that's 30 full seconds of a fight that player was not healing others, doing DPS, or obviously tanking. I think that's where I am having a logical disconnect. To use my current Darkspear, I will be giving up berserking, which I love. That means my DPS bursts will go down. I think everything in regards to combat racials is by going with race A, you cannot do what races B,C, or D do. And in this case, if you are a Zanda trying to use this easily countered racial, you are giving up whatever your role in the current raid is.

They are definitely testing it to see how OP it is for sure, but this is sort of the trick with any changes Blizz makes. Without making a fuss about it now, that feedback is largely ignored. Even now, it's largely ignored by people trying to theorycraft where it might not be OP as well as people saying "it's only PTR, they'll balance for live." Then it goes live and people come back with "why didn't you say more on the PTR?" It's also worth noting here that 100% is not a number that Blizz pulled out of thin air. 65% would be a number from thin air. 100% means that there is a very specific purpose here, a purpose of refilling a full health bar if you get a good 4 second pause. That's largely why people are upset...because if they aren't, this will go live as is. It may well still go live as is with a "let's just see what happens. At worst, we nerf it after lots of race change funds come through."

As for the four seconds of not doing anything, it isn't like you aren't doing anything. Given that most heals have a 1-2 second cast timer, you are in essence talking about a full health bar on 2-3 healing spell casts for no mana cost at all. The person is not fighting, sure, but in high level raiding, that's a small cost for something so strong. There are already plenty of spots where raiders might not have much to do. Take the eye beam on Zek'voz and how melee might have to stand out depending on group comp. It's a worthwhile trade that most raiders will make given the chance.

As a quick exercise, ask yourself this: if the value healed was cut in half (50% over 4 seconds), would it be way too underpowered to use? IMO, it would still be really strong and useful...so why then is it not OP at twice the value listed here?

[Shelly]

How does the tank remove all DoT's and aggro in your example?

Shaman with spirit link, stack by the tank. Instant full health for the whole group.

Paladin, bubble using the aggro-bubble. Taunts everything to you can heal for 2 to 3 ticks before hitting a cancel-aura and fully regaining aggro.

Warrior, can't remove DoTs but you can stun things for 3s and get in 1 or 2 ticks. If your group is quite good you can also intimidating shout, have all dps stop, get in your heal and then go to town.

Monk, can heal up while enemy is stunned from leg sweep, while they are on the other end of a ring of peace, or just after rolling away twice while they are slowed.

Druid, honestly not sure. I want to say stampeding roar away and then regen - would be doubly useful if it doesn't break form. I don't really play druid and lack of transmog makes it tough to want to.

Since they can't be DKs or DH's then they'll just need to rely on a Zandalari Shaman or really just a Zandalari in a group with a healing shaman.

It's really not hard to figure out ways to cheese this.

[The Anax]

Shaman with spirit link, stack by the tank. Instant full health for the whole group.

Paladin, bubble using the aggro-bubble. Taunts everything to you can heal for 2 to 3 ticks before hitting a cancel-aura and fully regaining aggro.

Warrior, can't remove DoTs but you can stun things for 3s and get in 1 or 2 ticks. If your group is quite good you can also intimidating shout, have all dps stop, get in your heal and then go to town.

Monk, can heal up while enemy is stunned from leg sweep, while they are on the other end of a ring of peace, or just after rolling away twice while they are slowed.

Druid, honestly not sure. I want to say stampeding roar away and then regen - would be doubly useful if it doesn't break form. I don't really play druid and lack of transmog makes it tough to want to.

Since they can't be DKs or DH's then they'll just need to rely on a Zandalari Shaman or really just a Zandalari in a group with a healing shaman.

It's really not hard to figure out ways to cheese this.

Shaman with spirit link, stack by the tank. Instant full health for the whole group. – Assuming it works with spirit link on AND assuming that the shaman has no DoTs, and that there are no AoE’s near this tank. (This one is virtually impossible in PvP)

Paladin, bubble using the aggro-bubble. Taunts everything to you can heal for 2 to 3 ticks before hitting a cancel-aura and fully regaining aggro. – Assumes that the Pally’s friendly Zanda has no DoT’s on them. (Virtually impossible in PvP)

Warrior, can't remove DoTs but you can stun things for 3s and get in 1 or 2 ticks. If your group is quite good you can also intimidating shout, have all dps stop, get in your heal and then go to town. – Assumes you don’t have DoT (if you do, you cannot even get off the first 25%), if you have all DPS stop in a raid, that sounds a bit counter productive, and you would go to all this trouble just for a single self heal?

Monk, can heal up while enemy is stunned from leg sweep, while they are on the other end of a ring of peace, or just after rolling away twice while they are slowed. – Assuming monk has no DoTs, does not have ranged on them, and so forth.

Druid, honestly not sure. I want to say stampeding roar away and then regen - would be doubly useful if it doesn't break form. I don't really play druid and lack of transmog makes it tough to want to. – as a druid I can tell you that I can usually heal myself without regeneratin even in the game yet. If I can get away, I can heal, and even then, you are assuming that I don’t have DoT’s on me.

I don't know, things like this sound very complicated and unlikely to be used just so a Zanda maybe, possibly, perhaps, perchance, might heal themselves.

[Cyanu]

I disagree in that even a DoT stops it from happening. As far as mage goes, I used to have a glyph where my invocation would also heal me (In fact, I think it was literally this regenertain except I also got mana back). Of course, DoT's did not interrupt it. If you are PvPing a Zanda, and you allow them to get away or get of a tic, isn't that on you? Like, I am always ready to use my silences, but in this case, the silence against regenertain is literally anything on your toolbar or the DoT that the poor troll already has from any other player attacking him or her.

so let's agree that you're only screwed if you're not constantly monitoring that racial (but imo even a 25% heal is ridiculous but whatever, it's like a racial healthstone on a 1.5 min cd)

can you give me a racial that demands similar treatment? well obviously not, because there isn't one, it's an obvious outlier in terms of power and it's just ONE of the zandalari racials

[bracan]

WHAT'S MORE IS THEY ALSO GET A SLOW FALL!

Of course they have slow fall. Why else would anyone operate out of that goddamn pyramid?

[Sederath]

So you confirm that you don't know raiding and you don't know PvP ... and yet you continue to be condescending.

In any case, I was responding to your question of why people were not responding to your other post. This is why. I generally won't bother arguing with someone who says wrong things in a very forceful and condescending way.

Continuing to attack me in an attempt to refute my argument only makes yours weaker.

Which, has been the sole entirety of your "point" since the beginning...

Perhaps don't use such a frail attack as a point of your conversation?

[CerealLord]

How does the tank remove all DoT's and aggro in your example?

Look at something like Fetid Devourer. It can be used to heal up a Thrash before the next one. Both tanks aren't always taking damage. One will typically have some type of debuff. It is extremely strong as a racial, which is why the blue post stated they are looking into it. It will not make it live, as is.

[Shelly]

Shaman with spirit link, stack by the tank. Instant full health for the whole group. – Assuming it works with spirit link on AND assuming that the shaman has no DoTs, and that there are no AoE’s near this tank. (This one is virtually impossible in PvP)

Paladin, bubble using the aggro-bubble. Taunts everything to you can heal for 2 to 3 ticks before hitting a cancel-aura and fully regaining aggro. – Assumes that the Pally’s friendly Zanda has no DoT’s on them. (Virtually impossible in PvP)

Warrior, can't remove DoTs but you can stun things for 3s and get in 1 or 2 ticks. If your group is quite good you can also intimidating shout, have all dps stop, get in your heal and then go to town. – Assumes you don’t have DoT (if you do, you cannot even get off the first 25%), if you have all DPS stop in a raid, that sounds a bit counter productive, and you would go to all this trouble just for a single self heal?

Monk, can heal up while enemy is stunned from leg sweep, while they are on the other end of a ring of peace, or just after rolling away twice while they are slowed. – Assuming monk has no DoTs, does not have ranged on them, and so forth.

Druid, honestly not sure. I want to say stampeding roar away and then regen - would be doubly useful if it doesn't break form. I don't really play druid and lack of transmog makes it tough to want to. – as a druid I can tell you that I can usually heal myself without regeneratin even in the game yet. If I can get away, I can heal, and even then, you are assuming that I don’t have DoT’s on me.

I don't know, things like this sound very complicated and unlikely to be used just so a Zanda maybe, possibly, perhaps, perchance, might heal themselves.

You keep shifting goalposts.

Anyway, most dots can be cleansed whether it be a poison or a curse, bleeds are the only real problem.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=98008/spirit-link-totem

That's spirit link totem. It constantly redistributes health to all characters standing inside it so that everyone is always at the same % of maximum health. Regeneratin' makes that CD extremely powerful. You can bring any group up to full health every 3 minutes simply by having just one zandalari in the group with regeneratin' up.

Since the CD works on % of maximum health then it works with Regeneratin'.

Zandalari can be paladins and bubble cleanses dots.

It's quite common to spend more time in a raid or a dungeon with NO DoT on you than otherwise as well. And my warrior example of a group all stopping damage was more for M+ than a raid. It's too much coordination for a raid but in M+ it wouldn't be that hard if you have a bunch of direct damage classes to get them to stop DPS for a second while intimidating shout is up. But chances are you'll have just heroic leaped away and are fine if CC is broken.

Regarding DoTs too though. They'll have DoT timers for when you can hit regeneratin' to gain at least one tick for a 25% heal while DoTs are on you. 25% heal is pretty good and can definitely be the difference between a wipe and a win.

Anyway, I play PvE. Thus my answers are PvE answers.

I'll let the PvPers continue to answer your concerns there, but I'll bring up a few things.

Healing fatigue, since this heal is % based it shouldn't be effected by fatigue. For arena that's a big deal.

Also in 3+ arena and BG groups it allows your healer to be pealed and focus on themselves to survive incoming damage while you heal up as not being part of the damage focus.

[Rozz]

This thread is growing faster than I can read it, holy shit.

Glad to see people so enthusiastic, but dang