So, which choice is the honorable one?

[Sorrowseer]

Really really really tired of the honor meme the game has degenerated into, simply a buzzword to slap a label on the horrible things they do.

[Archmage Alodi]

Horde leaders are all boring cucks, only half decent ones are Sylvie and Gallywix. It's not really a choice who to side with.

[Niwes]

Blizzard has outright stated that the Horde has to redefine itself in this expansion and that the choices we make as players will have a "big payoff" at the end. If as a Horde character I want a honorable Horde, which choices should I go with?

If I side with Sylvanas, I'm agreeing to support outright atrocities such as the Burning of Teldrassil and the forced Forsaken-ization of Night Elves and other Alliance members. That does not seem to be very honorable. Moreover, by siding with Sylvanas I would be betraying Saurfang who saved my character back during the Northrend Campaign.

If I side with Saurfang, I'm betraying my oath to the Warchief. Plus I'm spitting in the face of Vol'jin's dying wish to have Sylvanas lead the Horde. Not only am I aiding a traitor who in turn is aiding the Alliance, I am also betraying the trust of two of my Warchiefs. This does not seem to be very honorable either.

Same situation happens in 8.1.5.

If I side with Sylvanas, I'm snitching on fellow Horde members and selling out one of the only Horde leaders who's committed to achieving peace. If I side with Baine, I'm actively aiding the Alliance war effort and even murdering fellow Horde soldiers.

It seems like all four choices are inherently dishonorable. Is there any way to play Horde in this expansion without being a hypocrite? How do I regain my honor?

100% agree.
horde now is shit because blizz is shit.
stupid shit.

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Play Classic and join Thrall, the only true Warchief !

Benefits include a simplified and 80% more consistent lore !

from a lore perspective maybe the best advice by far in this thread.

[vsb]

It's up to you to make that choice. Why are you asking us? I consider Saurfang a traitor and his escape was planned by Alliance which means that he's Alliance pawn now. Some Sylvanas actions are questionable, but I'm staying with her as long as my leader Lor'themar Theron finds that appropriate. If anything, Alliance is unquestionable clear enemy to the Horde and as long as Sylvanas wants to destroy it, I'm all for it.

[grexly75]

Is that what the quest chain implies? Or is that what Sylvanas haters get from it?

The way I read it (unless they changed something) was that Vol'jin forgot the details of the vision and who gave it to him, but he certainly seemed convinced by it at that time! He even used words such as "Many will not understand", implying that he understood. Now that he lost those memories, he doesn't understand anymore, and assumes something must have gone wrong... But perhaps this is the actual manipulation?

The writing would have to be horrendously bad, explosive diarrhea levels of shitty, to set up a moment like this, complete with swelling music, and then retcon it into "He was being manipulated by dark forces, LOL! Look at that idiot Vol'jin pretending to be wise while farting Old God whispers through his mouth!".

No, as a huge Troll fan, I refuse to believe that Vol'jin didn't know what he was doing at that time. Sylvanas all the way!

This page explains what is going on.. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Bwonsamdi

Quoted from the page:

Vol'jin's spirit, Talanji, and Baine Bloodhoof returned to the Necropolis to reveal that Vol'jin had been calling for him, and Bwonsamdi had not heard him for some reason. They confronted Bwonsamdi to ask him if he was the one who had told the shadow hunter to make Sylvanas the Warchief of the Horde on Vol'jin's deathbed, which Bwonsamdi denied. Even as much as Bwonsamdi was all for war and death, Sylvanas took things too far, and besides that Sylvanas kept the souls of what she killed as undead instead of releasing them for Bwonsamdi to claim.

Troubled by their words, Bwonsamdi agreed to help them find out who had really told Vol'jin to put Sylvanas in charge.^[18]

This part of the story shows up in the Tides of Vengeance patch..

[CaptainV]

Sylvanas is already going to die, its not a hypothesis its an inevitability.

The thing is, Alex Afrasiabi inadvertly gave it away when he was asked if this was basically mists 2.0 and he replied Sylvanas would not "Die" in a "Raid" but he never said she wont "Die".

My own fan speculation or idea is this:

The choice you made in 8.1 effects how you start the story of 8.2 in Nazjatar.

If you chose to side with Saurfang, you will do a storyline that sort of takes place "before" it but also during it, where Saurfang uses his honorboy ninjas to assasisnate all of Sylvanas loyalists in Orgrimmar while freeing Baine, or if you sided with Baine, you have him with you to start with.

Saurfang will secure Orgrimmar and become the new Warchief after announcing it via portal to Lor'themar, who will agree to it as transition of leadership will go surpisingly smoothly for Saurfang.

With that done, Saurfang as leader, Zekhan informs him something went horribly wrong in Nazjatar and Rokhan dies, Rokhan's death elivates Zappyboy to leader of the Darkspear, and he and Saurfang go to save Talanji and the Horde trapped in Nazjatar.

If you sided with Sylvanas:

The story is slightly different, you are with Slyvanas, Nathanos, Talanji, Gallywix, Rexxar and Valtois as they prepare to engage the Alliance fleet, but something goes horribly wrong and Nazjatar rises, possibly because Sylvanas herself inadvertly triggered it.

Sylvanas and the group them end up stranded on Nazjatar, Talanji and her entorage are left behind by Sylvanas, while Sylvanas brings you and a handful of suicide squad soldiers with Nathanos to perform an old god ritual, her goal? Imprison N'zoth in Xal'atath.

She initally nearly succeeds but the ritual fails and she instead is imprisoned by the blade, this essentially kills Sylvanas, Nathanos is devastated and theres a cutscene and everything.

Then Nathanos and the player escape the confines of the Naga and flee to Talanji and the others to get them to try to save Sylvanas, but instead they are greeted by Saurfang and Zappyboy, who have just saved them, and are not happy with you, or Nathanos, but when Nathanos tells "Warchief" Saurfang that he needs to save the Dark Lady, he reluctantly agrees.

Then the Horde makes preparaition to lay siege to Nazjatar regardless of which side you picked.

---

On the Alliance side of the fence its more of a singular story but there is a bit of a revenge sub-story that happens during it.

At some point during the Naga's arrival, Derek manages to reach Jaina and tells them what the Horde is up to having escaped. Jaina and Anduin try to stop Sylvanas but its too late, Anduin is in turn captured by the Naga to be sacrificed, the Alliance is left Leaderless and Jaina is the only one that can run the show for the moment.

This gives the Alliance a branching choice, Jaina sets the goal of trying to save Anduin, but Genn see's this as an opportunity to Avenge his people and in a moment of vengeful fury tells the Alliance Champion to join him by attacking the Horde back for Intel, you have the choice of refusing to or helping him.

If you refuse you tell Jaina and Jaina scolds Genn for trying to start another fight, but Genn promises he will not rest till he is certain Sylvanas is dead.

If you side with Genn you attack Talanji's camp while its vulnerable and try to capture someone of importance, whom ends up being Valtois, you then torture her for information until she gives you the details of Sylvanas situation and what happened to the Horde, at which point Genn reluctantly lets her go.

Regardless of outcome you end up setting course to save Anduin from Azshara before its too late.



At least, thats what id set the story up for, it gives blizzard a chance to bring Sylvanas back without her properly dying, having her soul sent to N'zoth to be tormented where we can get some level of sympathy for her in such a crappy circumstance.

However, its pretty likley she will die in 8.2 that is the only thing I do think is very probable.

My speculation isnt exactly how, but a possiblity to how, all I am saying with some confidence, is the Horde is likley getting a Warchief change soon.

[Scottyjscizzle]

Doubt that's a possibility. It seems to be a chain, so the 8.1.5 will, most likely, require that you do the Saurfang one entirely.

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Eh, another thing we learn in 8.1.5 is that Vol'jin was manipulated by "dark ominous, mysterious forces" to pick Sylvanas, and not the Loa. So his dying wish, was a trick.

Which I thought was pretty obvious from the get go, why would the loa give a damn about slyvanas, let alone want her as warchief.

[onesBronson]

Pick horde toon to side with saurfang for the cosmetics, stay on the train and keep rolling onward to support Baine. Roll a horde alt to spit in everyone's face and support Sylvanas and therefore the horde as you're intended to from the beginning.

[Odintdk]

There's no honor in treason.

[Fetus Rex]

Siding with Sylvanas is honorable. Any other option is nothing more than glorified treason. Oathbreakers are scum, including Jaimie.

[Deleted]

the honorable choice is to unsub
kappa

[Shiza-Chan]

Side with neither in 8.1. (Do the quest up until zappyboi appears, then leave the area and forget about the questline).

Side with Sylvanas in 8.1.5 and get Baine thrown in jail for his crimes.

At least that's what I'm doing.

You are just following orders, we get it.

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Siding with Sylvanas is honorable. Any other option is nothing more than glorified treason. Oathbreakers are scum, including Jaimie.

So you consider imperialism and genocde as honorable.

[Super Dickmann]

So you consider imperialism and genocde as honorable.

To be fair, we practice imperialism in every single expansion. That's literally the point of the factions. Hell, two expansions ago we invaded the homeland of some warlike brown people and then used their own resources and labour to refine oil for our own purposes.

[Fetus Rex]

You are just following orders, we get it.

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So you consider imperialism and genocde as honorable.

Yes. There is nothing wrong about neither of them if applied wisely and for a good reason. Well, to be specific I meant the latter. The former doesn't require any coditions. Imperialism is just great.

[Dimmak]

What is honor?
What is your oath?
Is your oath to the current Warchief or is it to the horse itself?
That last question is what you are really asking. Both choices can be argued honorable until you define the tennants of that honor.
I believe that the horde honor is loyalty to the horde even when it defies the Warchief. If the Warchief is sick, or controlled, or worse dishonorable does not your oath of honor demand you oppose such a Warchief?
The horse have already seen what a Warchief without honor and obsessed with power can and will do. They have seen how Garrosh's list for power, lack of care of his people, and disregard for honor nearly destroyed them as a people.
These events happened but a few years ago in the same generation.
So if you ask me what is the pinacle of honor your PC would do if they are loyal to the horde and honor? Then I answer every honorable horde should be challenger her to Mak'gora. The line of challenger should span the gardens that should Sylvannis win against all opponents then there would be no living horde left. At least no livi by horde who holds honor.

[Aeula]

You are just following orders, we get it.

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So you consider imperialism and genocde as honorable.

I’m not ‘following orders’ for the sake of following orders.

I’m waiting for a better option to come along and getting rid of as many bad options as I’m able (With Baine being the worst option).

[Ramz]

i am going against blizzard(who is pushing Saurfang/Baine/Zehkan). for the dark lady.

How dare you put Sylvanas over Zekhan! You don't deserve to call yourself a troll!

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With that done, Saurfang as leader, Zekhan informs him something went horribly wrong in Nazjatar and Rokhan dies, Rokhan's death elivates Zappyboy to leader of the Darkspear, and he and Saurfang go to save Talanji and the Horde trapped in Nazjatar.

Hold it right there! No more Darkspear killing! Rokhan is the only relvant character left, and trolls deserve to have more than one bigger character. Not to mention Rokhan is very cool and I'd hate to see him go. Vol'Jin was already a low blow.

[RangerDaz]

This BfA faction war is so pathetic that you shouldnt worry too much about questions like this

[Byleth]

I picked Saurfang, because although I value my oath to the Horde, I can not abide genocide.

[Shiza-Chan]

I’m not ‘following orders’ for the sake of following orders.

I’m waiting for a better option to come along and getting rid of as many bad options as I’m able (With Baine being the worst option).

Worse than a genocidal dictator who plays 1984 with her own people by declaring free will and reprogramming ones mind as one and the same?

I think this makes your definition of honor following orders.

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Yes. There is nothing wrong about neither of them if applied wisely and for a good reason. Well, to be specific I meant the latter. The former doesn't require any coditions. Imperialism is just great.

13 year olds are sooo edgy.

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To be fair, we practice imperialism in every single expansion. That's literally the point of the factions. Hell, two expansions ago we invaded the homeland of some warlike brown people and then used their own resources and labour to refine oil for our own purposes.

The Alliance actually defended a people from genocide. The Horde is all about following orders and genocide.