US passes law against lynching; evangelicals campaign against it

[Endus]

Separate charges based on race are silly, whether the motive was race or they didn't like the hat they were wearing. /yawn

Not what the law is, or what hate crimes are.

Lying about basic shit wastes everyone's time. And I don't believe for one second you're actually confused about the basic facts, here.

From my understanding. Mens Rea doesn't really care so much about the reason as much as whether the act was purposeful or negligent (and anywhere in between). Its why crimes carried out purposely are punished more severely. Like 1st degree murder vs manslaughter. The difference is intent.

And motive. Mens rea is a broad concept, it refers to intent and motive both, as well as your understanding of the facts at hand. It's about what you were thinking when you did the act in question.

It's why "not guilty by reason of insanity" is a valid plea; you may have torn someone's throat out with your teeth, but if you were having a psychotic break, there's no mens rea. You may still need to be hospitalized, for the protection of yourself and others, but you're not guilty of a crime, even if there's no question that you tore that innocent person's throat out.

Should the law care whether that intent was "because he was black" more than "he slept with my wife"?

Given that the latter is often grounds for reducing a charge from first degree murder to second, and if you walked in on him having sex with your wife, potentially right down to voluntary manslaughter, that's an obvious "yes".

Yes, the law cares about mens rea. Not just actus reus. Saying it should focus exclusively on the act, and not the intent and motive, is to throw out hundreds of years of legal jurisprudence and the entire basis of Western law, in all its variations.

[MatadorMedia]

Mobs are online now. The new "lynching" is swarming onto any individual on the Internet that has been accused of anything. At least they escape without death but it usually involves death threats, slander, and losing their job. It's still just mob justice without due process.

[Axxil]

That's fine. Hanging is still an option for capital punishment in New Hampshire.

[Misuteri]

I think it was passed because 99 senators are afraid of ending up hanging at the end of a rope.

[Endus]

Except in that case it has a lot more to do with premeditation than intent, since the intent is clear in any of the scenarios. You intend to commit the act, rather than it being through negligence or accident. That's what Mens Rea refers to.

At some point you'll have to just admit that you're repeatedly misusing the terms and concepts here.

Except I'm not misusing anything. Premeditation and intent are both elements of mens rea.

The entire crime is divided into two components. The actual physical act done; actus reus. And everything going on in the perpetrator's mind; mens rea.

Everything that speaks to or affects the latter is part of mens rea. Premeditation. Intent. Motive. All of it.

All three sources I linked earlier, from legal dictionaries, all explain this.

[vindicatorx]

It's murder, why do you need a new law.

You can get the death penalty for lynching someone, or shooting someone, or running over someone in your car.

I guess reading is hard, it's now a federal crime not a state crime.

[Zeek Daniels]

If im reading this right. The evangelicals are not against the anti lynching bill because they want to lynch gays. They are against putting gay terms into law because they feel its going to open the door to even more laws that specifically mention gays affording them special rights.

Way to read OP. Your title makes it seem like evangelicals are for lynching.

[Florena]

I have no problem with this law, but isn't murder already illegal in all 50 states? All this would really mean is that if someone were to be murdered specifically via lynching, the perpetrators would be tried in a federal court instead of a state court. (As to the best of my knowledge, murder is a state level crime not a federal crime in general.)

Is anybody being lynched in 2018/2019? Because this feels like a purely symbolic gesture. Nice I suppose, and I have no problem with the law existing, but it doesn't seem like it'll actually...do anything in practice. Unless I'm wrong and this is still happening and state police/judicial systems are turning a blind eye, but unless that's the case, it's not actually accomplishing anything here.

[Endus]

If im reading this right. The evangelicals are not against the anti lynching bill because they want to lynch gays. They are against putting gay terms into law because they feel its going to open the door to even more laws that specifically mention gays affording them special rights.

Way to read OP. Your title makes it seem like evangelicals are for lynching.

They are.

Because the argument you just used is objectively false. Those terms already exist in the law code, in exactly the same phrasing as the new bill uses.

[Stormdash]

Murders been illegal for a while

... and we're done here.

[Dextroden]

They are.

Because the argument you just used is objectively false. Those terms already exist in the law code, in exactly the same phrasing as the new bill uses.

If they already exist, why is the law needed?

[Dextroden]

You also used it as an example in your argument that hate crime laws won't be evenly applied when it's an example of the opposite. Twitter isn't a courtroom, fyi, which is the only place even application matters when dealing with law.

Does media and a representative of the police count as twitter?

[ipaq]

It's murder, why do you need a new law.

You can get the death penalty for lynching someone, or shooting someone, or running over someone in your car.

Murder is handled by States... Lynching is now Fed. Which has death penalty and making sure racists cannot get away with 10y prison for killing minorities anymore.

[Sandraudiga]

Close to a quarter of lynching victims were white, so while racism was a major factor in most lynchings it wasn't solely a race crime. That being said the last lynching that I can find was in 1981, nearly 3 decades ago, and the current law against murder was enough to sentence one to death, two to life in prison, and one collapsed in court and died before he could be convicted.

Current murder laws were enough to deal with these criminals, there is no need for another.

[Endus]

If they already exist, why is the law needed?

The terms exist. This particular law didn't.

Stop moving goalposts.

[Dextroden]

The terms exist. This particular law didn't.

Stop moving goalposts.

in exactly the same phrasing

Okie dokie.

[cubby]

I shouldn't have to say this but...

Just because some small sect of "evangelicals" are against this it does NOT mean Christians are against it.
Christians are fundamentally against cold blooded murder, lets not twist any facts.

It would seem that's not actually the case in all instances. The new law and those campaigning against it being the proof.

[Najnaj]

It's murder, why do you need a new law.

You can get the death penalty for lynching someone, or shooting someone, or running over someone in your car.

Because they often are hate crimes and as such far more important than some dude getting drunk and shooting his neighbor.

- - - Updated - - -

If im reading this right. The evangelicals are not against the anti lynching bill because they want to lynch gays. They are against putting gay terms into law because they feel its going to open the door to even more laws that specifically mention gays affording them special rights.

Way to read OP. Your title makes it seem like evangelicals are for lynching.

If you want to exclude gays from protection you are de facto for lynching.

[Rhaide]

I shouldn't have to say this but...

Just because some small sect of "evangelicals" are against this it does NOT mean Christians are against it.
Christians are fundamentally against cold blooded murder, lets not twist any facts.

You're on MMO-C, unless you support the right of otherkin to marry chairs, you're a bigot.

In other news, murder has always been illegal. This doesn't sound like it is going to change anything, but it doesn't hurt anything either. At the end of the day, bad people are bad, if we want to point at them more specifically and say YOU'RE BAD BECAUSE OF THIS, then fine. As long as we're still calling them bad.

Fuck racist assholes.

[Spiffums]

Child rapists get lynched in prison. We need to protect the child rapists better!

Thats a public service

- - - Updated - - -

This doesn’t even make sense.

You never read where they hang traitors from the lamp post as a warning to others?