How do we make liberalism cool again?

[Felya]

The alt right see themselves now like the hippies of the 1960s where there shenanigans upsets liberals the way liberals upset conservatives with there shenanigans back in the 60s.

The altright are tree huggers that are putting flowers in guns?

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Yes, those crazy 60's hippies known for murder and violence! It's totally the same as the alt right! I mean who did not smoke a J and committee vehicular manslaughter back in the day.

It was acid, but Manson did try to start a race war with those murders.

[yetgdhfgh]

The altright are tree huggers that are putting flowers in guns?

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It was acid, but Manson did try to start a race war with those murders.

Its called trolling the establishment for laughs.

Did you not see the hippy movement of the 60s or the punk scene in the 80s? You could definitely call them liberal in there outlook but they did things to shake up the establishment.

You see the problem is Liberals are now seen as uptight and the establishment and cant seem to take a joke just like the way stuffy conservatives was back in the day.

Also back then hippy liberals of the 60s became left wing terrorists of the 70s like the baader meinhoff gang, The weather underground and the Black September and the red brigade!

Iam a left leaning centrist who was alive back in the 80s iam just saying it the way i see it now.

[Felya]

Its called trolling the establishment for laughs.

Yeah, I know what you mean:

Did you not see the hippy movement of the 60s or the punk scene in the 80s? You could definitely call them liberal in there outlook but they did things to shake up the establishment.

Are you conflating hippies and punk? Try again...

You see the problem is Liberals are now seen as uptight and the establishment and cant seem to take a joke just like the way stuffy conservatives was back in the day.

You bet... I just don’t think you understand who is laughing or why...

Also back then hippy liberals of the 60s became left wing terrorists of the 70s like the baader meinhoff gang, The weather underground and the Black September and the red brigade!

No, sorry buddy, liberals of the 60s became millionaires of the 80s...

Iam a left leaning centrist who was alive back in the 80s iam just saying it the way i see it now.

That’s great... I am a ninja...

[yetgdhfgh]

Yeah, I know what you mean:

Are you conflating hippies and punk? Try again...

You bet... I just don’t think you understand who is laughing or why...

No, sorry buddy, liberals of the 60s became millionaires of the 80s...

That’s great... I am a ninja...

You see Hippies and Punk did the same thing but there methods got more extreme.

You see growing hair long back then especially after the uptight atmosphere of the 50s was scandalous but by the 1980s especially after when the left really got radicallised in the 1970s where they was setting bombs off left and right and was murdering Italian Prime ministers that was seen as not very much so what was left to shake things up that is why we got real punk in the 1980s.

If you remember the heady days of 2016 you will remember why people supported Donald Trump in that they didnt really support him it was just it was seen that Hillary stiched up Bernie Sanders and those who supported Bernie went for Trump remember Bernie or bust https://www.ithaca.com/entertainment...5368874f6.html

Now like i said i grew up in the 80s and saw the left evolve from the music and the comics that grew out of the 80s to what we have now in comedy and music and culture where even family guy has said they are gonna stop making gay jokes https://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...guy-gay-jokes/

Now this thread is about making Liberalism cool again and i said we need to make the left stop looking like the establishment and i also say they need to stop being offended by everything and start finding there balls like the Hippies of the 60s, The radical factions of the 70s and the Punk and comedians of the 80s.

Now i know you are a Ninja and iam not sure what politics a ninja follows but i say i fucking hate Donald Trump that man is a fucking clown but if the Liberal left want to take him down they need to stop taking themselves seriously, they need to stop listening to 3 people on twitter who say they are offended and they need to find there balls like they used to do when they took down Nixon!

[Theodarzna]

You see Hippies and Punk did the same thing but there methods got more extreme.

Why is anyone talking about Punk Rock? It's a dead genre, and I can buy Dead Kennedy's merch at fucking Hot Topic. It's dead and anyone pretending its rebellious or whatever is fucking fooling themselves.

[yetgdhfgh]

Why is anyone talking about Punk Rock? It's a dead genre, and I can buy Dead Kennedy's merch at fucking Hot Topic. It's dead and anyone pretending its rebellious or whatever is fucking fooling themselves.

Iam just saying that the left needs to take a leaf out of there book to help the left to be cool again which is the point of this thread. but iam just a old fuck so whatever music is cool nowadays HAHA

[Theodarzna]

Iam just saying that the left needs to take a leaf out of there book to help the left to be cool again which is the point of this thread. but iam just a old fuck so whatever music is cool nowadays HAHA

It all became lame when it got sucked into HR departments and marketing.

It is hard to be cool when it's an obvious ad campaign. If I could describe the state of Liberalism today it would be the most recent Youtube rewind video. Pandering, Advertiser friendly and aggressively fake and insincere about it.

[Felya]

You see Hippies and Punk did the same thing but there methods got more extreme.

Absurd... absolutely absurd...

You see growing hair long back then especially after the uptight atmosphere of the 50s was scandalous but by the 1980s especially after when the left really got radicallised in the 1970s where they was setting bombs off left and right and was murdering Italian Prime ministers that was seen as not very much so what was left to shake things up that is why we got real punk in the 1980s.

By hugging trees? Punks were the ani hippies... if anything, it was the free drugs and love of the disco movement that is directly growing on hippies principles... it’s like saying pot and heroin are the same thing, because they are drugs.

If you remember the heady days of 2016 you will remember why people supported Donald Trump in that they didnt really support him it was just it was seen that Hillary stiched up Bernie Sanders and those who supported Bernie went for Trump remember Bernie or bust https://www.ithaca.com/entertainment...5368874f6.html

Yeah, funny that it was Trump saying to not vote because of it, but Bernie said to vote for Hillary. Funny... did you like that picture of Trump laughing at the establishment? Hillaryous...

Now like i said i grew up in the 80s and saw the left evolve from the music and the comics that grew out of the 80s to what we have now in comedy and music and culture where even family guy has said they are gonna stop making gay jokes https://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...guy-gay-jokes/

Wow... what’s next, they won’t be permitted to make fun of Jesus?

Now this thread is about making Liberalism cool again and i said we need to make the left stop looking like the establishment and i also say they need to stop being offended by everything and start finding there balls like the Hippies of the 60s, The radical factions of the 70s and the Punk and comedians of the 80s.

Yeah, but your the guy killing disco at a baseball game. Despite being antiestablishment, for some reason... punks could tell Nazis to fuck off. In fact, they tried hard with the Oi movement. Didn’t work out, because there is something different now a day...

Now i know you are a Ninja and iam not sure what politics a ninja follows but i say i fucking hate Donald Trump that man is a fucking clown but if the Liberal left want to take him down they need to stop taking themselves seriously, they need to stop listening to 3 people on twitter who say they are offended and they need to find there balls like they used to do when they took down Nixon!

Don’t forget not to vote......

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Iam just saying that the left needs to take a leaf out of there book to help the left to be cool again which is the point of this thread. but iam just a old fuck so whatever music is cool nowadays HAHA

Punks were not left... they were antiestablishment. The current right, is not antiestablishment. You cannot be antiestablishment and hold every fucking branch of federal government. Neither the left or right can be cool, because both are a variation on your parents telling you what to do. Anyone trying to sell either as being cool, should get this image to blast your brain:

[yetgdhfgh]

Punks were not left... they were antiestablishment. The current right, is not antiestablishment. You cannot be antiestablishment and hold every fucking branch of federal government. Neither the left or right can be cool, because both are a variation on your parents telling you what to do. Anyone trying to sell either as being cool, should get this image to blast your brain:

]

You keep linking me songs with your opinion on those songs iam not sure what that is supposed to achieve? If we really want to delve into what spawned the hippy movement into the punk scene then that will require a thread all its own and boy would that be a thread!.

I get the feeling we are both on the same page but we are getting our lines crossed here.

TBH i always saw the left as anti establishment maybe thats my upbringing growing up poor in Maggie Thatchers Britain. Anyway its not like our opinion is suddenly gonna change how the world sees liberalism cause right now they are either seen as easily offended killjoys or Hillary Clinton.

Maybe i was too simplistic in my answer but hey articles have been drawn up on this subject and is plastered all over the internet.

[GreenJesus]

What happened to stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me? I miss that saying.

[Zython]

call out people who call everything alt-right or nazi, etc with out evidence to back it up.

Every time I provide evidence or ask for what evidence would be sufficient, I get yelled at and infracted.

being a good NPC I see. A company place isn't to tell me how to think.

Um...
What exactly do you think marketing departments do?

One that got caught price fixing is really bad. face it #metoo is already a joke because of cunts like chris hardwicks ex-girlfriend.

You are really mad that someone you don't even like was accused of something you approve of, huh?

Also toxic masculinity in many cases is just a bullshit term like (blank)privlege. Used by limp wrists because they can't argue worth a shit.

I think that second statement kind of invalidates the first...

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It sounds like you're upset because left-wing politics aren't personally catering to your comfort. That the speech they're defending is stuff that makes you confused, scared, or otherwise doesn't give you a boner.

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What happened to stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me? I miss that saying.

I think we learned that wasn't necessarily the case after Joseph Goebbles.

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It all became lame when it got sucked into HR departments and marketing.

It is hard to be cool when it's an obvious ad campaign. If I could describe the state of Liberalism today it would be the most recent Youtube rewind video. Pandering, Advertiser friendly and aggressively fake and insincere about it.

That's fair, but at the same time, you guys also get upset when the left actually engages in political radicalism.

You see growing hair long back then especially after the uptight atmosphere of the 50s was scandalous but by the 1980s especially after when the left really got radicallised in the 1970s where they was setting bombs off left and right and was murdering Italian Prime ministers that was seen as not very much so what was left to shake things up that is why we got real punk in the 1980s.

Not to mention how you yourself have stanned for billionaires on numerous occasions.

The reason the left isn't "cool" anymore is because you're not a child anymore, and are now part of the establishment yourself. But since you've convinced yourself that being pro-establishment is bad, you're now looking for something that appears transgressive, but poses no threat to your way of life. And nothing does that better than fascism. And here we are.

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Its called trolling the establishment for laughs.

Did you not see the hippy movement of the 60s or the punk scene in the 80s? You could definitely call them liberal in there outlook but they did things to shake up the establishment.

You see the problem is Liberals are now seen as uptight and the establishment and cant seem to take a joke just like the way stuffy conservatives was back in the day.

Also back then hippy liberals of the 60s became left wing terrorists of the 70s like the baader meinhoff gang, The weather underground and the Black September and the red brigade!

Iam a left leaning centrist who was alive back in the 80s iam just saying it the way i see it now.

I'm sorry, but do you even listen to yourself. Like...read what you write and internalize it? You're complaining that the left today is "pro-establishment", but then go on the decry the anti-establishment actions of the left in the 70's?

What do you think being anti-establishment looks like? Is it just a costume, or does the term actually hold meaning to you? Because being anti-establishment doesn't look like Marilyn Manson. It looks like Huey Newton.

Because being anti-establishment doesn't look like this:



It looks like this:

[yetgdhfgh]

Not to mention how you yourself have stanned for billionaires on numerous occasions.

.

Stanned? what does that mean? Iam a centrist and i dont recall stanning for any billionaire unless that is a new euphemism for some sexual practice and i can assure you i certainly aint done that either HAHA !!

Iam just fucking you are right iam old and iam just passing on what i know from growing up in 1980s Britain. I know my opinion is about as worthless as my opinon on why Sylvanas should remain warchief but hey i will soon be dead and in a billion years the sun will boil every living thing off this earth.

Yadda yadda fucking yawn

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I'm sorry, but do you even listen to yourself. Like...read what you write and internalize it? You're complaining that the left today is "pro-establishment", but then go on the decry the anti-establishment actions of the left in the 70's?

I think you too are on the same page as me but once again we have gotten our lines crossed.

I miss the days of the real left like



What iam railing against is Political Correctness and the fact the left doesnt have the balls anymore!1 Did you not read anything i posted?

Ah what ever..

[JohnBrown1917]

Its called trolling the establishment for laughs.

Did you not see the hippy movement of the 60s or the punk scene in the 80s? You could definitely call them liberal in there outlook but they did things to shake up the establishment.

You see the problem is Liberals are now seen as uptight and the establishment and cant seem to take a joke just like the way stuffy conservatives was back in the day.

Also back then hippy liberals of the 60s became left wing terrorists of the 70s like the baader meinhoff gang, The weather underground and the Black September and the red brigade!

Iam a left leaning centrist who was alive back in the 80s iam just saying it the way i see it now.

Punks and hippies where anything but liberal.


They are part of the establishment(the right wing groups), by the way.

[Theodarzna]

But the only reason why advertisement campaigns and PR work like that is because people latch unto the fakeness.
"Fantasy it's what people crave." (If I remember correctly that was the finding of one of the most influential psychologists of the 20th century, but I forgot his name).

Even in popular non-mainstream media of today everything is very fake, including the aggressively misleading thumbnails of videos.

And I honestly don't see this being any different for the conservatives in the USA. Their campaign ads aren't better or more honest. Just a lot of neo-cons pushing the expansion of the military industry, even Trump was a faker and a liar. Despite his rhetoric and PR he formed the most neo-con cabinet of all, increased military spending to insane heights, massive arms sales deals and destabilized the world further with sanctions which in turn has lead to more (internal) violence. And let's not forget that a war with Iran seems to be very much on his radar too... even according to his own tweets and speeches at rallies.

Fake not as in fantasy, but fake as in insincere.

[Felya]

You keep linking me songs with your opinion on those songs iam not sure what that is supposed to achieve? If we really want to delve into what spawned the hippy movement into the punk scene then that will require a thread all its own and boy would that be a thread!.

I am linking you song that are the performer’s opinion. It’s trying to show that what I am saying, isn’t my opinion, but the sentiment repeated as the core of the genre. As in, trying to remove my subjectivity, so I am not just expressing personal opinions. We don’t have to delve into that thread at all, because that’s not the point. You need to explain to me, how either the relationship of Hippies with Nixon, as well as Thatcher/Reagan had with punks... then look at the rich fat fuck in the White House and tell me again how the right is antiestablishment. You cannot be antiestablishment and hold every fucking branch of federal government.

I get the feeling we are both on the same page but we are getting our lines crossed here.

Yeah, I know we are. I just find the current altright being called antiestablishment an abhorrent concept. The right is inherently an appeal to authority, even when they are not in power. Punks rejected both, the extremes of the left that was the flower child and the extremes of the right, which was the Oi! movement. Here is a sample of Jello Biafra’s platform, when running for mayor of San Fran:

https://www.ourcampaigns.com/Candida...didateID=18031

In 1979 he ran for mayor of San Francisco using the slogan borrowed from a Jello ad campaign, "There's always room for Jello". His platform included such ridiculous points as forcing businessmen to wear clown suits. He finished fourth out of 10, gaining 3.5% of the vote, and the election was resolved in a runoff that did not involve him. Also in 1979 Jello formed the label alternative tentacles.

Jello also tried to run for President, not as GOP or DNC, but losing the primary to Ralph Nader of the Green Party.

TBH i always saw the left as anti establishment maybe thats my upbringing growing up poor in Maggie Thatchers Britain. Anyway its not like our opinion is suddenly gonna change how the world sees liberalism cause right now they are either seen as easily offended killjoys or Hillary Clinton.

That’s the thing though... Hillary Clinton was the first freshman president of young republicans in her college. Supporting a democrat or a republican, is simply not antiestablishment. It cannot be cool... I would know... I am the king of swing.

Maybe i was too simplistic in my answer but hey articles have been drawn up on this subject and is plastered all over the internet.

I knew what you meant, my sticking point is the concept of Trump and his support being antiestablishment. I think people are confusing belligerent, with antiestablishment. The difference of course is that being belligerent was a tool of antiestablishment. Something that has been completely neutered by Trump’s twitter. At this point, a politician would need to skin a cat on live television to be shocking.

If Reagan/Thatcher did half the shit that punks were doing, the concept of punks would be completely different. Yet, we have the concept of troll for Trump... as ge trolls on twitter. Then we have people bitch that they get kicked of twitter/patreon/Youtube for simply doubling down on the leader. At no time realizing that’s the whole issue with the establishment. Their ass depends on sources of income, so saying the shit they do, risks that income. Trump will QQ into his billions. That’s not punk... that’s not hippies... that’s the same appeal to authority as always, they are just no longer polight about it.

Edit: The Trump version of cool, is that of a prepubescent child. We have a rated R superstar of a president... he said a naughty word... he is so cool. When I grow up, I will also get away with being an asshole... just like Trump. BitCoin don’t fail me now!

[NED funded]

You see Hippies and Punk did the same thing but there methods got more extreme.

You see growing hair long back then especially after the uptight atmosphere of the 50s was scandalous but by the 1980s especially after when the left really got radicallised in the 1970s where they was setting bombs off left and right and was murdering Italian Prime ministers that was seen as not very much so what was left to shake things up that is why we got real punk in the 1980s.

If you remember the heady days of 2016 you will remember why people supported Donald Trump in that they didnt really support him it was just it was seen that Hillary stiched up Bernie Sanders and those who supported Bernie went for Trump remember Bernie or bust https://www.ithaca.com/entertainment...5368874f6.html

Now like i said i grew up in the 80s and saw the left evolve from the music and the comics that grew out of the 80s to what we have now in comedy and music and culture where even family guy has said they are gonna stop making gay jokes https://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...guy-gay-jokes/

Now this thread is about making Liberalism cool again and i said we need to make the left stop looking like the establishment and i also say they need to stop being offended by everything and start finding there balls like the Hippies of the 60s, The radical factions of the 70s and the Punk and comedians of the 80s.

Now i know you are a Ninja and iam not sure what politics a ninja follows but i say i fucking hate Donald Trump that man is a fucking clown but if the Liberal left want to take him down they need to stop taking themselves seriously, they need to stop listening to 3 people on twitter who say they are offended and they need to find there balls like they used to do when they took down Nixon!

You just sound like you are getting old tbh. People no longer enjoy the rebellious attitude of the 90 or whatever, IIRC the shit that sells now is stuff that is positive.

[JohnBrown1917]

You keep linking me songs with your opinion on those songs iam not sure what that is supposed to achieve? If we really want to delve into what spawned the hippy movement into the punk scene then that will require a thread all its own and boy would that be a thread!.

I get the feeling we are both on the same page but we are getting our lines crossed here.

TBH i always saw the left as anti establishment maybe thats my upbringing growing up poor in Maggie Thatchers Britain. Anyway its not like our opinion is suddenly gonna change how the world sees liberalism cause right now they are either seen as easily offended killjoys or Hillary Clinton.

Maybe i was too simplistic in my answer but hey articles have been drawn up on this subject and is plastered all over the internet.

lol Clinton is just as right wing as Thatcher was.

[Felya]

While I can see where you are coming from on some of this, I feel like there are parts you are not seeing.

Let’s... see...

Trump is "antiestablishment" in the sense that he does not give a shit about seeming corrupt. Nor does he give a shit about putting obviously biased/corrupt people in charge of organizations/institutions.

That’s not true at all. The guy spent 130k for two women to keep quiet about an affair. Is extremely litigious, to the point where he admitted on the stand that he counted publicity as part of his wealth, during a lawsuit over a book written about his corruption and incompetence. This is you confusing being belligerent, with not giving a shit about putting corrupt establishment in office. You cannot tell me that reading even 5 min of Trump twitter, make you believe he doesn’t care about corruption. What do you think he was draining the swamp of?

For instance the FCC, EPA, etc, etc...

You mean the regulatory agencies that the establishment despises? You think all the lobbying that goes to sway these regulatory agencies is just for show? Yeah, the establishment going after these agencies is nothing new. They didn’t want them in the first place and it took mountains of public pressure for those to be created.

Hillary and the more "normal" politicians (Jeb Bush etc) are likewise all corrupt, but they hide it a lot better. The refreshing thing with Trump (and I mean that in a "this movie is so horrible its good" way) is that he out in the open shows you what happens in government. Nor does he seem to care about the US as a world power norm that both parities still do. If that’s due to Russia or his own reasons is kind of irrelevant, it’s just goes against the establishment/elites that were in charge.

This is bullshit... Trump claims he isn’t corrupt. Remember the tarmac meeting with Clinton? What do you think Trump bitching at Sessions on a regular basis was? What do you think firing Comey was? All of those are because he doesn’t care about the establishment seeing how corrupt he is? The only reason people like Trump get away with being beligerent, but we get our asses fired... is because he is a fucking oligarch.

You are confusing how obviously corrupt and belligerent the establishment can get and get away with it. This was taking the problem you are talking about and emplifying it. It was doing the opposite... like voting for a NYC billionaire to stop coastal elites. A guy who has more business outside US than middle America, being the solution to the plight of globalization and the rust belt.

Both parties are Mammon possessed, as Theo brought up earlier when she spoke about Greed, etc, and using Diversity and the like as an expedient way to make money.

Interesting... have you considered since both are the same, they are actually... one? One side to split them all...

The "antiestablishment" are also the Trump supporter trolls that were displaying Pepe everywhere, purposefully "drinking liberal tears". They are upsetting the status quo of "we must all be decent and polite, or less!"

No... they support a billionaire President Trump... they are 100% establishment. If it’s about your two quotes, how are they anti establishment and not children who hear a naughty word?

[Felya]

I just want to highlight something, since all nuance is lost with punk’s onslaught of loud.

The clown suit proposed for businessman is funny, but there is a big point there. What if all of the advertising, all movies and tv programming replaced suits, with clown suits. What if every politician didn’t wear a business suit, but a clown suit. Yeah, it’s funny... but, what happens now if you enter an electronics store dressed as a clown? No one will come near you. What would happen then? You’ll be the belle of the ball and taken to the most expensive electronics they got.

As funny as the concept is, the point is about us all being treated like blue collar. The immediate impact created by social norms, by what is considered a respectable uniform. Now think of that, but consider a hijab...

[AboikoS]

I honestly have a hard time when the "far left" is associated with liberalism. The "far left" represents socialism and communism, which is the complete opposite of liberalism.

But unfortunately, majority of todays self-proclaimed liberals represent and openly support far-left agendas. Some of them even publicly admitted to be "literally a communist".

Left-Wing has drastically changed in the last 10-15 years, i used to be a liberal too, but seeing what are they doing right now...its truly shocking man... They are openly attacking white people, white men, creating some delusional arguments like "white male privilege" and all that while claiming to be " fighting racisim and misogyny". Do you get that? Spreading hatred in the name of fighting hatred. How delusional Left-Wing has become its really terrifying. They honestly seem to have no arguments, no further ideas, nothing but baiting voters on the racist and sexist cards, its disgusting at least.