Good lord, the Alliance is dastardly!

[Every Pwny]

Those were a different faction of Zandalari, not the ones currently. The ones currently are the exact ones (literally the old quest givers from Vanilla and Northrend are walking around Zuldazar) from Vanilla (Hand of Rastakhan) and the ones from Northrend.

No they weren't, in cata Zul went out with ships granted to him by Rastakahn to unit the lesser troll tribes. These are the same Zandalari that have been fighting us. Not to mention that the Zandalari already sunk a bunch of ships the alliance sent in pursuit of the horde who attacked Stormwind, so attacking them there as well.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You fight them in Cata and MoP.

The ones we fight in cata and mop are not tied to the zandalari under the king it’s really no different then fighting the defies or any random none horse orc.

[Shaetha]

The Zandarlari are exactly as neutral as the Unites States was in 1940. That being in name only, and everyone knew it and acted as such.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No they weren't, in cata Zul went out with ships granted to him by Rastakahn to unit the lesser troll tribes. These are the same Zandalari.

Rastakhan gives zul ships and tells him to go away zul then goes away and starts his own group with the goals of re gaining troll lands without any ties to Rastakhan.

[Dristereau]

The first thing the Alliance sees before even stepping on Kul Tiras is the Zandalari Navy annihilating the Stormwind Fleet. It's the Alliance's entire reason for reaching out to Kul Tiras in the first place, the Horde chasing the Zandalari Navy and allying with them. The Alliance destroying their Navy is by far their smartest move because despite Talanji not being officially part of the Horde, Forsaken and Zandalari fight the 7th Legion on the shores of Zuldazar.

As usual, the Alliance responds to whatever the Horde do. I think Battle of Dazzar'alor is the first time the Alliance has been on the offensive with a decent plan, but it's still a reaction to the threat of the Zandalari Navy.

[The Anax]

No they weren't, in cata Zul went out with ships granted to him by Rastakahn to unit the lesser troll tribes. These are the same Zandalari.

No, Rastakhan sent Zul away for annoying him too much.

[Charge me Doctor]

But, if they did that, they would not be killing all the innocent people in Dalaran and Khadgar, since, he must also be an ally of the Horde. To do what they did to Zandalar, they would need to blow up the whole place and kill the leader of the Kirin Tor.

They can kill whoever they want after the roundup, but Khadgar is neutral, alliance has no interest in killing civilians "just because", while they are obviously at war with Zandalar, since Alliance:
a) kidnapped their people
b) Zandalari scorched stormwind
c) Zandalari hid Horde and allowed Horde to make a base on their turf to start offensive campaign against alliance

[The Anax]

The first thing the Alliance sees before even stepping on Kul Tiras is the Zandalari Navy annihilating the Stormwind Fleet. It's the Alliance's entire reason for reaching out to Kul Tiras in the first place, the Horde chasing the Zandalari Navy and allying with them. The Alliance destroying their Navy is by far their smartest move because despite Talanji not being officially part of the Horde, Forsaken and Zandalari fight the 7th Legion on the shores of Zuldazar.

As usual, the Alliance responds to whatever the Horde do. I think Battle of Dazzar'alor is the first time the Alliance has been on the offensive with a decent plan, but it's still a reaction to the threat of the Zandalari Navy.

You mean the Alliance ships that were chasing after their princess that had been imprisoned for no reason other than... well... for no reason at all. Yeah, I know the Alliance tried to start a war with the Zandalari, and their ships were crushed, so they now started a whole new war with them, slew their king, and helped them join the Horde because of... reasons?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They sided with the Horde they moment they allowed them to dock in their harbor and use their resources, and THEY brought the war to themselves when they started aiding the Horde in launching sneak attacks against civilian populations in Kul Tiras all throughout the Horde war campaign. So stop being disingenuous and pretending like the Zandalari were "neutral", because they weren't.

It’s tottaly justified but the alliance did start it by kidnapping there princess. Though they could have been going after zul due to him leading the trolls in cata/mop but even though they Proabbly should have been informed enough to not take the princess.

[Every Pwny]

Rastakhan gives zul ships and tells him to go away zul then goes away and starts his own group with the goals of re gaining troll lands without any ties to Rastakhan.

He gave them a fleet and an army, he supplied them to go on their journey. Zul wouldn't have done anything without Rastakhan's assistance and agreement.

[Charge me Doctor]

It’s tottaly justified but the alliance did start it by kidnapping there princess. Though they could have been going after zul due to him leading the trolls in cata/mop but even though they Proabbly should have been informed enough to not take the princess.

How did this happened tho? Was it SI7 work? Or did alliance blasted some warship and it dropped a legendary princess?

[The Anax]

They can kill whoever they want after the roundup, but Khadgar is neutral, alliance has no interest in killing civilians "just because", while they are obviously at war with Zandalar, since Alliance:
a) kidnapped their people
b) Zandalari scorched stormwind
c) Zandalari hid Horde and allowed Horde to make a base on their turf to start offensive campaign against alliance

No, Khadgar is even more culpable than the Zandalari using your own arguments. He's helped the Horde become what it is WAY more than Zandalar has lol That's funny though that your idea of neutral is so far off from reality. I wonder why? Maybe you see humans and assume they are innocent and something like a troll must be bad? Not sure, but the Zandalari were definitely neutral until the alliance terrorist attack on their boats. That and the warmongering Alliance killing an innocent king. That last one I think really did the job to help them choose an ALLY and no longer be neutral.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He gave them a fleet and an army, he supplied them to go on their journey. Zul wouldn't have done anything without Rastakhan's assistance and agreement.

He gave them large ships but he didn’t give zul a fleet or an army. Zul got his followers him self by getting people who thought Rastakhan wasn’t doing enough and litteraly starting his own cult. You can also see by the ships in mop that they are not the same kinds of ships as the golden fleet and seem more like cargo ships as they have a ton more dead space.

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How did this happened tho? Was it SI7 work? Or did alliance blasted some warship and it dropped a legendary princess?

I’d guess they got lucky and Titan forged a fishing world quest for her and that’s why they were so un informed.

[Charge me Doctor]

No, Khadgar is even more culpable than the Zandalari using your own arguments. He's helped the Horde become what it is WAY more than Zandalar has lol That's funny though that your idea of neutral is so far off from reality. I wonder why? Maybe you see humans and assume they are innocent and something like a troll must be bad? Not sure, but the Zandalari were definitely neutral until the alliance terrorist attack on their boats. That and the warmongering Alliance killing an innocent king. That last one I think really did the job to help them choose an ALLY and no longer be neutral.

You may disagree as much as you like but truth is - Khadgar is neutral, Dalaran is neutral, Zandalar wasn't neutral at any point of in-game history. They were neutral when they gave no fucks about outside world, but they stopped being neutral when, you know, they literally picked horde side in this conflict.

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I’d guess they got lucky and Titan forged a fishing world quest for her and that’s why they were so un informed.

Jesus, do these quests require legendary fishing rod or something? Makes me feel bad for never actually obtaining it.

[mickybrighteyes]

No, Rastakhan sent Zul away for annoying him too much.

and Zul was trying to find a solution for whatever problems were going on in Zandalar. And some of his attempts wound up having the factions as collateral damage. Like Amani and Gurubashi rising up and trying to act important again.... or pointless fighting over Mogu relics.

In hind sight it seems like the Zandalari didn't even put the Alliance and Horde in their eyes.... not even acknowledged on any scale or metric beyond being in the way when something else was going on.

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It’s tottaly justified but the alliance did start it by kidnapping there princess. Though they could have been going after zul due to him leading the trolls in cata/mop but even though they Proabbly should have been informed enough to not take the princess.

I don't think it was ever stated HOW Talanji and Zul wound up in the Stockades.

[Every Pwny]

He gave them large ships but he didn’t give zul a fleet or an army. Zul got his followers him self by getting people who thought Rastakhan wasn’t doing enough and litteraly starting his own cult. You can also see by the ships in mop that they are not the same kinds of ships as the golden fleet and seem more like cargo ships as they have a ton more dead space.

"he granted Zul the use of his largest ships", not just large ships it was his largest ships then Zul assembled a war fleet. Then Zul was still in a high level position in the Zandalari kingdom when he returned.

[Strangely Charismatic]

I just watched an in-game cinematic that blew my mind. Did you know that the Zandalari, a neutral faction

If they're neutral, then why do they attack me?

[Jastall]

I disagree... there was no effort put in on an alternative plan by the alliance at all. It was all in for causing as much damage as possible to the Horde and, by extension, the Zandalari. If they bothered to consider another outcome they could have made the horde look like worse and worse allies or a poor choice to back by NOT fucking with the Zandalari... not invading and making ridiculous demands of the King and killing him outright... and maybe actually opening op some form of communication (or used their damned spies for something useful instead of picking targets to blow up)
On this point... what reason should they have bothered with Alliance plights? They didn't even seek out the horde until Zul and the Princess brought Nathanos and the player in. I'm still unclear on events around Talanji winding up in the Stockades and what transpired for her capture and during her stay, though. Overall, I think it's a poor point of view to use the bold as point here... Though I might be biased since it's the point I'm levying against the alliance.




That's all well and good. But I don't particularly like how the faction that is supposed to work well with others and pursue diplomacy in some fashion is shown, straight up, blatantly ignoring diplomatic measures to:
1 - destroy enemy personnel and goods
2 - subverts local wildlife to their own ends
3 - immediately assumes the nation is against them

I know it's railroaded to have both factions get a new group added, but dammit if they just straight up ignored how some actions should have played out. Did Talanji and Zul really fucked up Stormwind when they got apprehended? I mean we know they fucked things up when they got out, but what happened before that?

The plan would have been decent had Rastakhan been a king in real life or a fairly normal Zandalari which would have allowed an elite task force to capture him. He happens to be a 200 years old supertroll backed up by a death god so apprehending him or expecting him to surrender is a lot less of a good idea.

As for the Alliance not being diplomatic, good. They're at war against an enemy that has displayed genocidal intentions. Attacking the guys harboring said enemy and enabling their war effort is well within the faction's acceptable morality parameters.

I do agree that the circumstances surrounding Zul and (especially) Talanji being thrown in the Stockades are just non-existent. We have no idea why they were captured, where, and what was the Alliance's endgame with them. It feels like a plot device so the Horde can save them.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

"he granted Zul the use of his largest ships", not just large ships it was his largest ships then Zul assembled a war fleet. Then Zul was still in a high level position in the Zandalari kingdom when he returned.

Ya and? Rastakhan gave zul some boats and told zul to get lost, zul got lost did abunch of bad stuff on his own with no orders from Rastakhan and even trying to replace Rastakhan with the thunderking. Zul fails at every thing and goes back, there is no reason why Rastakhan should care what zul did on his little vacation as litteraly none of it ties back to him unless giving some one some boats is an act of war on some faction they don’t even care about.

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I don't think it was ever stated HOW Talanji and Zul wound up in the Stockades.

It would be really nice to find out.

[mickybrighteyes]

"he granted Zul the use of his largest ships", not just large ships it was his largest ships then Zul assembled a war fleet. Then Zul was still in a high level position in the Zandalari kingdom when he returned.

That doesn't actually indicate Rastakhan's awareness of Zul's actions and given that it seems Zul was the main party looking beyond Zandalar's borders prior to the events of BfA we likely won't get any details.

Might as well attribute SI:7's handy-work as being ordered by Anduin himself even though he is obviously not at all aware of what they do.

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It would be really nice to find out.

anything'd be better than what we have...

"She and Zul ended up being captured by the Alliance"

that's it. horde goes in with knowledge they're there, cause reasons, and the story continues on. No idea why Zul and Talanji are there or any foot notes on what the Alliance thinks of them =/