Virginia Governor Ralph Northam convicted of blackface and KKK

[Dystemper]

Looks like Justin Fairfax, the Lt. Governor might be out as well with the sexual assault allegations. Rumor is Northram is refusing to step down because his wife is telling him not to. Virginia Democrats are in a panic

[Noxx79]

I don't know why someone would resign over a joke they made in bad taste almost 40 years ago. Robert Byrd was an actual Klansman when he was young and was still a racist while in the senate and yet he was forgiven for some reason.

He only spent his entire life making up for that. But you knew that, didn’t you.
Pretty funny that you had to go to someone who’s been dead for almost 10 years to get a “gotcha”.
Stop with the whataboutism, it’s pathetic.

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A southerner supporting the south? what a shocker? Also this was almost 30 years ago, in the 1990s.
Link https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/02/...federate-flag/

I'll be as consistent as I can for both sides. Neither Democrat or Republican should step down for photos that were taken over almost 30 years ago. This bolded part is important While the SCV might be considered an organization whose use of the Confederate flag places it in an appropriately historical context, the group was the subject of some notoriety over a rift between those who wanted the SCV’s focus to remain about preserving history, and those who wanted to use it to “fight for the right to display Confederate symbols everywhere”:

Basically the confederate flag means something different for everyone. For some it's a reminder of history, and for others it's a reminder of slavery. To say that is purely a symbol of racism is ignorance at its finest.

To say that there’s no racism and to say that people should be proud of traitors, slavers, and losers is ignorance at is finest.

Is this part of the “alternative facts” where somehow despite citing slavery on the articles of secession, the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?

[Darkeon]

"wrong." - Donald Trump

Just like Trump, you are hilarious!

[PACOX]

Isnt that the chick that slept her way to the top?

You spelled Flotus wrong.

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Looks like Justin Fairfax, the Lt. Governor might be out as well with the sexual assault allegations. Rumor is Northram is refusing to step down because his wife is telling him not to. Virginia Democrats are in a panic

That Lt Governor allegation is suspicious to just say the least.

[Edge-]

Can I just point out the irony that Big League Politics, a site formed by right wingers who felt that Breitbart was too "mainstream" and has ties to white supremacists like Corey Stewart (co-owner), was the one to break this story?

Because you'd figure they'd like this aspect of Northam's past.

[Deletedaccount1]

He only spent his entire life making up for that. But you knew that, didn’t you.
Pretty funny that you had to go to someone who’s been dead for almost 10 years to get a “gotcha”.
Stop with the whataboutism, it’s pathetic.

You misunderstand me. I am not saying he didn't deserve to be forgiven. I am simply pointing out that it is strange that liberals forgave an actual racist who reformed himself but many won't forgive someone who is likely not racist but simply made a racist joke almost four decades ago. I don't see the relevance of how long ago he died. I'm not trying to make a "gotcha" point, I'm simply trying to understand why an actual racist can be forgiven but a non-racist who made a racist joke cannot. Northram's lies and mishandling of the situation notwithstanding.

[announced]

He only spent his entire life making up for that. But you knew that, didn’t you.
Pretty funny that you had to go to someone who’s been dead for almost 10 years to get a “gotcha”.
Stop with the whataboutism, it’s pathetic.

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To say that there’s no racism and to say that people should be proud of traitors, slavers, and losers is ignorance at is finest.

Is this part of the “alternative facts” where somehow despite citing slavery on the articles of secession, the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?

I didn't say there was no racism, I simply said the flag means different things to different people. The fact that you don't understand English well isn't my fault either. That's not something you can blame Trump for.

Like in this article linked here https://thetylt.com/culture/confederate-flag-racist
For some, flying the Confederate flag is about honoring the Confederate soldiers who gave their lives to defend the South. For them, the flag does not symbolize slavery or racism but standing up to an overbearing federal government. BBC's Tom Geoghegan looked to Barry Isenhour, a member of a heritage group fighting to erect a large Confederate flag on a major road in Virginia, for insight on motivations behind flying the flag. According to Isenhour, the flag would act as a tribute to the Confederate soldiers who lost their lives:

Some use the flag as a tribute to honor fallen soldiers. Soldiers that may have died for the wrong reasons but they still died nevertheless and someone decided to honor them.

[Draco-Onis]

I didn't say there was no racism, I simply said the flag means different things to different people. Like in this article linked here https://thetylt.com/culture/confederate-flag-racist
For some, flying the Confederate flag is about honoring the Confederate soldiers who gave their lives to defend the South. For them, the flag does not symbolize slavery or racism but standing up to an overbearing federal government. BBC's Tom Geoghegan looked to Barry Isenhour, a member of a heritage group fighting to erect a large Confederate flag on a major road in Virginia, for insight on motivations behind flying the flag. According to Isenhour, the flag would act as a tribute to the Confederate soldiers who lost their lives:

Some use the flag as a tribute to honor fallen soldiers. Soldiers that may have died for the wrong reasons but they still died nevertheless and someone decided to honor them.

Soldiers who lost their lives fighting for the South's right to have slaves and be racists, are you fine with flying the Nazi flag and putting up statues of his generals?

[cubby]

I didn't say there was no racism, I simply said the flag means different things to different people. The fact that you don't understand English well isn't my fault either. That's not something you can blame Trump for.

Like in this article linked here https://thetylt.com/culture/confederate-flag-racist
For some, flying the Confederate flag is about honoring the Confederate soldiers who gave their lives to defend the South. For them, the flag does not symbolize slavery or racism but standing up to an overbearing federal government. BBC's Tom Geoghegan looked to Barry Isenhour, a member of a heritage group fighting to erect a large Confederate flag on a major road in Virginia, for insight on motivations behind flying the flag. According to Isenhour, the flag would act as a tribute to the Confederate soldiers who lost their lives:

Some use the flag as a tribute to honor fallen soldiers. Soldiers that may have died for the wrong reasons but they still died nevertheless and someone decided to honor them.

The flag DOES NOT MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. It's a symbol of racism and slavery - period. What's different is who thinks that's still ok and not ok. If you're standing next to a confederate flag, you're standing next to the equivalent of a nazi flag.

[Grapemask]

I didn't say there was no racism, I simply said the flag means different things to different people. The fact that you don't understand English well isn't my fault either. That's not something you can blame Trump for.

Like in this article linked here https://thetylt.com/culture/confederate-flag-racist
For some, flying the Confederate flag is about honoring the Confederate soldiers who gave their lives to defend the South. For them, the flag does not symbolize slavery or racism but standing up to an overbearing federal government. BBC's Tom Geoghegan looked to Barry Isenhour, a member of a heritage group fighting to erect a large Confederate flag on a major road in Virginia, for insight on motivations behind flying the flag. According to Isenhour, the flag would act as a tribute to the Confederate soldiers who lost their lives:

Some use the flag as a tribute to honor fallen soldiers. Soldiers that may have died for the wrong reasons but they still died nevertheless and someone decided to honor them.

This kind of idiocy has to stop.

[Alopex]

It must suck for some people that the federal government telling them "no, you can't own people" is overbearing

[SirBeef]

unless you have something else to point out what a dirty, awful racist he is, I’m gonna file your pearl clutching under “laughable”.

We don't really know it it was him in that picture, but I can see how that might have been seen as a funny Halloween thing back in 1984. Even though it is considered a terrible thing today and probably questionable back then, I don't think we need to be applying standards from today and the future to things that happened when society was different back then.

I know slipper slope is used a shit ton on this forum, but this really is one. So is every action when were were young and possibly not thinking straight going to fuck us all over. Because we all have done things that were acceptable back when we were younger that would be frowned upon today. Oh shit you watched Revenge of the Nerds and laughed at a Bill Cosby joke, then you are a supporter of date rape and sexual abuse. I mean seriously where does it end? Does Northam need to resign? That is for the state of Virginia to decide. But seriously, none of us would be able to hold jobs if we keep up this kind of purity testing about shit from our youth.

[announced]

Soldiers who lost their lives fighting for the South's right to have slaves and be racists, are you fine with flying the Nazi flag and putting up statues of his generals?

You are comparing apples to oranges. people who fly the Nazi flag are all bad, Confederates are not.
That's like saying all southerners are racist, or all Muslims are terrorists when you paint everyone with a broad brush it just shows your ignorance and unwillingness to accept that the world is not all black and white.

The flag DOES NOT MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. It's a symbol of racism and slavery - period. What's different is who thinks that's still ok and not ok. If you're standing next to a confederate flag, you're standing next to the equivalent of a nazi flag.

Symbols can have multiple meanings, what might be apparent racism to some, is part of a dark and tragic history to others.
Take Columbus day for example, or even the statue of Columbus. Some see it as a tribute towards the genocide of natives, while others simply remember the good that Columbus did when he created a bridge between the old and new world.

This kind of idiocy has to stop.

Agreed. While we can agree slavery and Nazism is bad, flying a confederate flag doesn't necessarily make you a racist. Maybe some southerners are just flag buffs? Or the flag was in a history themed club since that's where the photo was taken?

Regardless, the photo cocaine Mitch is in is from the 1990s, and is thus nearly 30 years old. Are we really going to go through every politicians past and audit their life to decide whether we should try and force them to resign? We might not have any politicians left if we keep going down this slippery slope.

[Draco-Onis]

You are comparing apples to oranges. people who fly the Nazi flag are all bad, Confederates are not.
That's like saying all southerners are racist, or all Muslims are terrorists when you paint everyone with a broad brush it just shows your ignorance and unwillingness to accept that the world is not all black and white.

No it's not you fly a confederate flag you celebrate and remember people who fought for racism plain and simple full stop. If a Muslim was flying the ISIS flag you wouldn't say he isn't a terrorist, there's no other meaning if you don't understand what that flag represents then you are blind.

[Reaper0329]

I didn't say there was no racism, I simply said the flag means different things to different people. The fact that you don't understand English well isn't my fault either. That's not something you can blame Trump for.

Like in this article linked here https://thetylt.com/culture/confederate-flag-racist
For some, flying the Confederate flag is about honoring the Confederate soldiers who gave their lives to defend the South. For them, the flag does not symbolize slavery or racism but standing up to an overbearing federal government. BBC's Tom Geoghegan looked to Barry Isenhour, a member of a heritage group fighting to erect a large Confederate flag on a major road in Virginia, for insight on motivations behind flying the flag. According to Isenhour, the flag would act as a tribute to the Confederate soldiers who lost their lives:

Some use the flag as a tribute to honor fallen soldiers. Soldiers that may have died for the wrong reasons but they still died nevertheless and someone decided to honor them.

Having lived in the South for the vast majority of my life and presently living there now, I've seen the stars and bars issue debated half to death. I don't feel particularly strongly one way or the other with respect to the flag in and of itself, so no real dog in the fight. But I did want to commend you for perfectly surmising the rationale of the pro-flag side of the debate.

On topic, while I think Northam is an utter moron, convicted is a touch strong.

[Grapemask]

Agreed. While we can agree slavery and Nazism is bad, flying a confederate flag doesn't necessarily make you a racist. Maybe some southerners are just flag buffs? Or the flag was in a history themed club since that's where the photo was taken?

Regardless, the photo cocaine Mitch is in is from the 1990s, and is thus nearly 30 years old. Are we really going to go through every politicians past and audit their life to decide whether we should try and force them to resign? We might not have any politicians left if we keep going down this slippery slope.

The flag doesn't "make" you racist, but at best it makes you ambivalent or ignorant to its history. If I fly an ISIS flag, a Nazi flag, flags of North Korea or the Jong-Uns, I'm not technically stating anything we attribute to any of those groups, and they could mean all sorts of different things to me - after all, every one of those things was originally good or derived from something that meant something positive - but it is established what the actual meaning of these things are, and any statement I am making with it must use that context. It doesn't matter if I'm recognizing that the Nazi flag incorporates a symbol of peace and good fortune, the flag actually was about a regime of racism and brutality.

And of course, this all ignores that southerners never hung this particular flag - the one Mitch posed with - until well into the 20th century, because it's the battle flag. The entire movement for that particular flag started with civil rights. It was adopted specifically as southern states indicated their intent to battle the black people over segregation and equal rights. Even the notion of this strong southern heritage and its alternative history didn't pop up until that battle began.

Like nearly everything the right side of the line argues for, it's intellectually dishonest horseshit. Why the right continuously evolves new ways to defend racism with intellectually dishonest horseshit instead of, say, just not defending racism is beyond me.

[Hobb]

I really like the guy. He's desperate and clueless. He seems lost. I hope he runs for president.

If he was a republican he probably would, considering they've been running brothel owners and child molesters for office lately.

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You are comparing apples to oranges. people who fly the Nazi flag are all bad, Confederates are not.
That's like saying all southerners are racist, or all Muslims are terrorists when you paint everyone with a broad brush it just shows your ignorance and unwillingness to accept that the world is not all black and white.

Considering the item of grievances in the confederate state's Article of Seceding deals with slavery, yes that were bad and racists. Even General Lee himself said after the war the Confederacy should be forgotten and no monuments made for it.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/p...states#Georgia

[cubby]

Symbols can have multiple meanings, what might be apparent racism to some, is part of a dark and tragic history to others.
Take Columbus day for example, or even the statue of Columbus. Some see it as a tribute towards the genocide of natives, while others simply remember the good that Columbus did when he created a bridge between the old and new world.

Of course some symbols have different meanings - that goes without saying. The Confederate flag isn't one of them. It stands for a group of people that we were willing to die to keep other human beings in chains. It's the penultimate symbol of racism and slavery in the United States. Any other "interpretation" is just deflection.

You are comparing apples to oranges. people who fly the Nazi flag are all bad, Confederates are not.
That's like saying all southerners are racist, or all Muslims are terrorists when you paint everyone with a broad brush it just shows your ignorance and unwillingness to accept that the world is not all black and white.

No one is saying all southerners are racist. We're saying all people who fly the Confederate flag are racist (some southerners do, some don't - I bet there aren't a lot of black families that fly the confederate flag ) - there is a difference. Confederates are racist - period. There is no alternate interpretation to what that flag represents.

Regardless, the photo cocaine Mitch is in is from the 1990s, and is thus nearly 30 years old. Are we really going to go through every politicians past and audit their life to decide whether we should try and force them to resign? We might not have any politicians left if we keep going down this slippery slope.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. But it's hard to draw the line at what is ok to ignore from the past and what is not. I don't think it's a good idea to delve into every single politicians past and bring into light stupid mistakes made when they were younger. I know we disagree above on the flag issue, but it would be an interesting intellectual discussion on what is ok to take a pass on and what is not.

[Paranoid Android]

Geezus Virginia Democrats. Top three in scandals. Two of them for blackface!

For those who don't know.

JUST IN: Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring admits to wearing blackface at a 1980 college party https://t.co/38jv101iGq https://t.co/KbnN7Lfnzk

[Xeones]

What the fuck is going on in Virginia?