Mythic raiding is too time-consuming. Full stop.

[Soluna]

Point 1. 6-9 hours / week progressing in the raid itself (depending on how hardcore you are, it might be up to 12 hours or more).

Point 2. 1-2 hours / day grinding Azerite. Flying would cut down this time sink dramatically but let's be fair, flying is not happening this expansion.

Point 3. 30-60 mins / week clearing weekly mythic+ for cache.

Point 4. 2-3 hours / week capping conquest for cache 2 (cuz PvP trinkets are better than PvE trinkets).

Point 5. 2-3 hours / week grinding herbs and other consumables (because Blizzard ostensibly refuses to add a herb vendor). This is even worse on low pop realms where you can't just buy consumables from the AH due to price or scarcity.

Add all this shit up. You spend MORE time preparing for raids than actually raiding. And most of it is just a boring time sink. The only thing that's excusable is the mythic+ part because at the very least it's also endgame PvE content.

Remove AP grinds. No one likes them.
Make raids drop good gear. What is the point of raiding mythic if it doesn't drop BiS?
And for the love of God, add a herb vendor.
That is all.

Can we just ban this user? He pisses me off to no end, especially with his real life picture posted on his profile. He contradicts himself within the same day.

[pansertjald]

Is this a troll post? Because it surely looks like a troll post.

If you don't enjoy mythic raiding... don't do it.

Is it that hard to grasp the fact that you don't have to do the hardest difficulty in the game?

Do you complain that there's the super extra hard difficulty in single player games? If you don't enjoy the super extra hard difficulty, you go for an easier difficulty. You will have an easier time, but you will feel less rewarded. It's the exact same with WoW. It's harder to participate in mythic raiding, but you will feel more rewarded when you actually do it. People will say that it's different because it's an MMO, but no, it's not. The fact that you compare yourself to others shows that you want to stand out. If you want to stand out, you will have to do the extra things. Otherwise mythic raiding would feel bland, and no one would care that you do them (well, no one cares already, but it will be even worse if you remove any requirement to do it).

Only troll here is you...... Now move along

[Ielenia]

That is all.

Find a guild with easier Mythic raiding requirements, or stop raiding mythic. Or, if neither option is to your liking, we have option C: "put up and shut up".

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why not just go back to the LFR, Normal and Heroic versions of raids? Why does there need to be a Mythic version to begin with? Only thing I see that it does is stroke the epeens of the elite players which more than likely spend quite a bit of real money on WoW tokens which inflates the auction house for the rest of us.

If they went back to lfr normal heroic they would Proabbly just readjust them to where they were before. Normal now is flex raiding of map which is laughably easy, heroic is normal and mythic is heroic. If they kept the same 20 player requirement they would be doing nothing but removing the easiest mod out side of lfr.

[Shmazard]

herb vendor? what would be the point in herbing then, and the prices would be set on the vendor, this is the dumbest thing in this thread.

[Alphatorg]

herb vendor? what would be the point in herbing then, and the prices would be set on the vendor, this is the dumbest thing in this thread.

Worked out fine in Legion?

[Druitz]

2)
I think the AP grind is a mechanism to trick casual "I have nothing to dooooo :*(" players into subscriptions and as such it's entirely pointless for mythic raiders as the very nature of an organized mythic guild is perhaps the strongest guarantee for continuous subscription there is. Infact at that level AP grind actually does the opposite, since it's made a significant part of the mythic raiding population ("raid loggers") quit during Legion. If they won't scrap it because it's too important to over all player numbers then I'm hoping they at least ease it a bit, for example by dropping more AP in raids or (high) M+.

3)
It's only fair that M+ players also get their gear and I don't think it's too much to ask for raiders to do one key a week. To me personally it's fun.

4)
PVP gear being relevant for PVE is quite annoying, but I think it's only fair that high level Arena players get good gear for their effort. The biggest problem are the trinkets and that's more a question of balance rather than broader design concepts.

5)
I think some form of consumables grinding has always been a part of wow (aside from WoD I guess). But I would agree that potions are a bit expensive in BfA and it's really annoying that there is no prolongued power this expansion, not necessarily for progression, but for mythic plus trash and lower difficulty raids, where you either have to sink thousands of gold on rather trivial pulls/bosses or not pot at all, which feels fairly shitty to someone who is otherwise trying to min/max.




I could ask you the same. It's very clear from his post that he doesn't have a problem with mythic raiding itself, but with the varying degrees of bullshit chores you have to do when you're not actually raiding. Things that (aside from high level Arena) have absolutely nothing to do with difficulty or challenge, but instead just exist because Blizzard wants players to waste their time on brain dead chores.

Pvp trinkets are good in pve but they are not even close to pve trinket in pvp during wotlk

I agreee that its sad pve trinkets can be best in pve and pvp trinkets can be best in pve but they will never balance it because both group of players deserve rewars and pvp players finally can get equal rewards to pve players.

[Shmazard]

Worked out fine in Legion?

Thats a different system, OP sounds like they just want to buy herbs at a set price with straight up gold.

[Wilian]

Most of your 'list' there is applicable to today's game and raiding. Gear grind was also not that hard at all in TBC actually, as I was extremely casual and still got flying and geared up with vendors and pvp and was easily geared enough for SSC clear pugs.

It really is not applicable at all because the nature of that grind was on entirely different scale.

[WeaponizedPillows]

Let me preface by saying I don't have the time or the inclination to raid at the mythic level anymore. That said:

Point 1. If you don't have time to do this, you shouldn't be mythic raiding.

Point 2. Then don't grind azerite. You and your guild are putting this on yourselves. Artifact knowledge will make the work you did this week trivial in a couple weeks. If you want to clear mythic the month it's out, you're going to have to put in more work.

Point 3. Same as point 2. You don't need the extra source of gear, but it's there if you want to improve faster.

Point 4. Same as point 2.

Point 5. Buy herbs off the AH (Gee, it's almost like there is an herb vendor after all!). If you have no gold, and no time to farm gold, buy wow tokens. If you can't afford wow tokens, and have no time to farm the gold necessary to mythic raid, maybe you just shouldn't be raiding mythic?

[Zeek Daniels]

Point 1. 6-9 hours / week progressing in the raid itself (depending on how hardcore you are, it might be up to 12 hours or more).

Point 2. 1-2 hours / day grinding Azerite. Flying would cut down this time sink dramatically but let's be fair, flying is not happening this expansion.

Point 3. 30-60 mins / week clearing weekly mythic+ for cache.

Point 4. 2-3 hours / week capping conquest for cache 2 (cuz PvP trinkets are better than PvE trinkets).

Point 5. 2-3 hours / week grinding herbs and other consumables (because Blizzard ostensibly refuses to add a herb vendor). This is even worse on low pop realms where you can't just buy consumables from the AH due to price or scarcity.

Add all this shit up. You spend MORE time preparing for raids than actually raiding. And most of it is just a boring time sink. The only thing that's excusable is the mythic+ part because at the very least it's also endgame PvE content.

Remove AP grinds. No one likes them.
Make raids drop good gear. What is the point of raiding mythic if it doesn't drop BiS?
And for the love of God, add a herb vendor.
That is all.

Complete bullshit. You only do that if your hardcore progression and your GM wouldnt let you raid if you didnt. There are plenty of casual Mythic prog guilds that dont require such time consuming activites.

My toon for example doesnt spend that much time in game because my goals dont require it.

First of all your number 3. Everyone spends 30+ mins a week doing their weekly cache. EVERYONE even if your doing a 2 or a 5 or a 8 your spending time getting your weekly cache done.

point 5. 2-3 hours? try an hour b4 raid. Also guilds should be providing most consumables so the only thing you would need is prepots. Not that hard to farm and not very time consuming.

My guild spends 9 hrs a week raiding. Im at the point on my toon where i only need to run one 10 or higher key, couple hours farming for prepots for the week, and log in to do any emissaries which usually take 30mins to an hour depending on how many i do. So 40 mins for a dungeon, 1-2 hours for prepot farm, and around 2.5 hours a week on all the emissaries. So in all around 5 hours of non raid time i spend on the game and 9 hours of raid time.

[Alvito]

1) Pick a guild that has raid times close to what you like
2) Pick a guild that has Azerite requirements close to what you like
3) Pick a guild that has gearing requirements close to what you like
4) look at #3
5) Pick a guild that has consumable requirements close to what you like

All the "shit" adds up but you still have the choice to join/make a guild that is a good fit for you.


AP grinds shouldn't be gone, but it shouldn't be 24/7 grind (aka you can cap your shit and when new raid hits that cap is raised)
Raids already drop good gear, some of them are BiS too. Nothing wrong with diversity. What should be gone is full RNG WF/TF system (you can still have rnd WF, just add valor points so that people eventually get BiS)
No need to screw up economics, if you don't want to buy herbs then either don't use consumables or farm them yourself.



TLDR: Don't be in a guild that wants to play more than you do.

Hard to do that if you want to raid mythic even on the best of servers. If you play on anything less than that or god forbid one of the lower population servers it is impossible. Now the points you listed are why many jump off the wheel at some point and either hang it up completely or some back peddle and play at an easier level and more casually. For many you can't just jump backwards and enjoy it. I know I have tried going from pushing mythic content to being in a guild that gets it's AOTC and more or less backs into mythic and the level of quality is so hard to deal with in some cases.

[Improtaight]

.... flying is not happening this expansion.

stopped reading here, Flying is coming out 8.2 been stated over and over again, same as last exps, its coming out in later patches.
know your facts mate.

[MoanaLisa]

Raiding requirements are dependent on your guild. I agree that what was listed is a lot but I have to side with those that line up on the idea that if you want to do mythic raiding there are things that come with that.

And a solid no on the herb vendor. That would make one whole profession redundant at a stroke. That's crazy.

Flying will happen eventually. Probably 8.2. So let's be clear about that.

[Xeh.-]

Point 1. 6-9 hours / week progressing in the raid itself (depending on how hardcore you are, it might be up to 12 hours or more).

Point 2. 1-2 hours / day grinding Azerite. Flying would cut down this time sink dramatically but let's be fair, flying is not happening this expansion.

Point 3. 30-60 mins / week clearing weekly mythic+ for cache.

Point 4. 2-3 hours / week capping conquest for cache 2 (cuz PvP trinkets are better than PvE trinkets).

Point 5. 2-3 hours / week grinding herbs and other consumables (because Blizzard ostensibly refuses to add a herb vendor). This is even worse on low pop realms where you can't just buy consumables from the AH due to price or scarcity.

Add all this shit up. You spend MORE time preparing for raids than actually raiding. And most of it is just a boring time sink. The only thing that's excusable is the mythic+ part because at the very least it's also endgame PvE content.

Remove AP grinds. No one likes them.
Make raids drop good gear. What is the point of raiding mythic if it doesn't drop BiS?
And for the love of God, add a herb vendor.
That is all.

How about you dont make new threads if you have 0 idea about what you are talking about? Let ppl who actually know stuff do so. I mean no offense you simply dont know much about the game so opening your mouth to speak nonsense is kinda disrespectful and makes this forum worse.

[Pu3Ho]

First off there is no valid source for 1.7m subs second off high end raiding has always been done by a relatively few amount of people so it wouldn’t has any major effect on sub numbers.

That post feels like a BFA shills on a suicide watch and in deep denial.

[f4ncybear]

Sounds like World 1000 mystic renders are really bad at managing time.

[Ranaas]

First: Flying is Coming in Patch 8.2.whatever.
Second:
1,5h+0,5h+2,5h+2,5h=7H
Thats within your RaidTime you Posted. So you dont spend more time Preparing.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, theres a Herb Vendor. Its Called AuctionHouse.

but the point is, it was not like this before legion. there was no ap grind. there was no mythic+. you could clear current content without even play apart from the raids and wouldnt be behind other ppl like these last 2 expansions. only thing you would need to do after you get to the raid instance, keep the consumbales up and you were set.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That post feels like a BFA shills on a suicide watch and in deep denial.

denial about what? nothing you said has any backing in reality. Bfa is just kinda eh as well, not the best thing ever but has a few good parts.

[Pu3Ho]

denial about what? nothing you said has any backing in reality. Bfa is just kinda eh as well, not the best thing ever but has a few good parts.

It has zero good parts except zone zone design, it's literally a Legion 0.5 and a worse version of it.