Fox bewails children being taught the concept of fairness

[Craaazyyy]

Do you have an actual moral argument as to why it would be wrong to do so? Most human policy is utilitarian in nature except for wealth distribution, which is odd.

because stealing someone elses money is immoral? who are you to determine whether or not said person doesnt need the money he/she earned?

utilitarian human policy is aimed(and should be) at equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome..

[Nurasu]

because stealing someone elses money is immoral? who are you to determine whether or not said person doesnt need the money he/she earned?

Money is a societal construct, inherently belonging to the society that created it.

[Craaazyyy]

Money is a societal construct, inherently belonging to the society that created it.

what are you on about? LMAO

it belongs proportionally to people that earned it more by providing things that people either need more or are willing to pay more for them

also nothing was created by society.. everything was created by individuals

[The Stormbringer]

I hear that schools are liberal indoctrination centers all the time, and I'm kind of confused - did the left and right play rock, paper, scissors to decide who gets to indoctrinate through the school system? Did the left just beat the right to punch? Coin toss? The right is above indoctrinating kids? What's the explanation, other than the fact that liberalism is actual education?

Some of the words related to conservative are 'traditional', 'moderate', 'firm', 'stable', 'reactionary', and 'preserver'. Meanwhile, some of the related words for liberal are 'enlightened', 'permissive', 'tolerant', 'flexible', 'lenient', and so on.

Which one of those sounds more likely to be the sort of thing to be in schools?

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what are you on about? LMAO

it belongs proportionally to people that earned it more by providing things that people either need more or are willing to pay more for them

also nothing was created by society.. everything was created by individuals

They were describing fiat backed currency (AKA money). It's literally a thing we made up to replace gold, silver, and so on, which in itself was made to replace bartering and trade.

[Hilhen7]

yes, everyone who is right wing goes to private school.
wow, you're really reaching and grasping aren't you.
what percentage of the kids that go to school do you think go to private school? it's a mere 10% of the population going through general education.
and no, in case it wasn't already obvious, not all the right wingers send their kids to private schools.

Okay but are private schools indoctrination or not?

[Flarelaine]

because stealing someone elses money is immoral? who are you to determine whether or not said person doesnt need the money he/she earned?

utilitarian human policy is aimed(and should be) at equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome..

But that is the point. If you start one year with a net worth of, say, $1M, you have a better opportunity to make another $50,000 than someone who starts with $250,000.

[Hilhen7]

I hear that schools are liberal indoctrination centers all the time, and I'm kind of confused - did the left and right play rock, paper, scissors to decide who gets to indoctrinate through the school system? Did the left just beat the right to punch? Coin toss? The right is above indoctrinating kids? What's the explanation, other than the fact that liberalism is actual education?

Here is the secret.

It's only indoctrination if what is being taught is against your agenda. (Such as fairness, evolution, big bang theory, sex education).

That's why private schools teaching about sky gods, people coming back from the dead, and judgment day is not considered indoctrination by fox and the right.

[Craaazyyy]

They were describing fiat backed currency (AKA money). It's literally a thing we made up to replace gold, silver, and so on, which in itself was made to replace bartering and trade.

well they should learn the history of "fiat money"

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But that is the point. If you start one year with a net worth of, say, $1M, you have a better opportunity to make another $50,000 than someone who starts with $250,000.

what do you mean start with 1m?

[Nynax]

How do flat tax proponents propose to deal with the following negative trends
• Continually rising income inequality
• Stagnated raises in wages
• Continually rising cost of living/housing expenses, that have little correlation with ability to pay
• Continually rising healthcare costs, that have little correlation with ability to pay
• Continually rising education expenses...that have little correlation with ability to pay
• Aging infrastructure
• Increasing Automation

And then, what is the counter argument to the fact that the marginal tax rate for the wealthy used to be much higher without causing economic collapse?

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And finally the argument against fairness. No one is saying "being rich is bad and you should feel bad" (at least no one should be saying that). What fairness in this context means is that, in the United States of America. There should not be one family that consistently faces the decision to pay the water bill, pay rent, or buy food, while another family easily affords 3-4 homes and a private jet to bounce between them.

And the thing that gets me the most, are the people that argue against higher taxes for the wealthy, are likely to never experience those taxes and that amount of wealthy in the first place. So much more has to align than just "hard work."

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
― Ronald Wright

It's not about a communism where every citizen is perfectly equal in wealth and materials. It's about overly excessive luxury and/or hedonism, and building a country with a general populace that is mentally happier, physically healthier, and the true ability of all citizens for "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

[Ashrynn]

Show us how they are being indoctrinated?

Every parent teaches their kid about fairness FFS...

It's been stated by myself and others.

And as you said - If every parent teaches it... why is it something that needs to be taught in schools by govt employees?

[Craaazyyy]

--

And finally the argument against fairness. No one is saying "being rich is bad and you should feel bad" (at least no one should be saying that). What fairness in this context means is that, in the United States of America. There should not be one family that consistently faces the decision to pay the water bill, pay rent, or buy food, while another family easily affords 3-4 homes and a private jet to bounce between them.

but what if one family earned their wealth and another family didnt do shit?

[Hilhen7]

but what if one family earned their wealth and another family didnt do shit?

Then regardless that one family will still be way better off.

[Craaazyyy]

Then regardless that one family will still be way better off.

yeah, because they earned that

so how exactly is it immoral and not fair?

[Shadowferal]

Okay but are private schools indoctrination or not?

Speaking as one who went to Catholic school for the first 8 years...I never thought of it as indoctrination.
Hell, damn near atheist for a while after I left.

[Ashrynn]

How do flat tax proponents propose to deal with the following negative trends
• Continually rising income inequality
• Stagnated raises in wages
• Continually rising cost of living/housing expenses, that have little correlation with ability to pay
• Continually rising healthcare costs, that have little correlation with ability to pay
• Continually rising education expenses...that have little correlation with ability to pay
• Aging infrastructure
• Increasing Automation

And then, what is the counter argument to the fact that the marginal tax rate for the wealthy used to be much higher without causing economic collapse?

--

And finally the argument against fairness. No one is saying "being rich is bad and you should feel bad" (at least no one should be saying that). What fairness in this context means is that, in the United States of America. There should not be one family that consistently faces the decision to pay the water bill, pay rent, or buy food, while another family easily affords 3-4 homes and a private jet to bounce between them.

And the thing that gets me the most, are the people that argue against higher taxes for the wealthy, are likely to never experience those taxes and that amount of wealthy in the first place. So much more has to align than just "hard work."



It's not about a communism where every citizen is perfectly equal in wealth and materials. It's about overly excessive luxury and/or hedonism, and building a country with a general populace that is mentally happier, physically healthier, and the true ability of all citizens for "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

1. I don't think you've stated how a progressive tax would fix this(which I do support btws). Raising taxes isn't always the answer. NYC is finding this out now.

2. Easy. People didn't actually pay it. And in today's age people will just hide their money outside of the US's reach. It's actually far easier to keep your funds off show NOW than it was in the past. So period, people will just find ways around it like they did in the past given how easy it is now.

3. Yes people did say that. It was said multiple times. And again... I understand what you mean. But you don't know anything about either family. Deciding one should give to the other is not right. Charity cannot be compelled.

4. Correct. Many people arguing for those higher taxes will also not be paying those higher taxes. Should we just disregard the opinions of only those forced to pay it? Because then I think it never happens regardless.

5. Except you're not really trying to create that. You just want fairness. And what's scary is that you define fairness on "A has 4 Dollars. B has 1 Dollar. A needs to get 1 more dollar to B." You don't know how either came across the money, you just see one person with more money and deem it as being unfair.

[Mrbleedinggums]

yes, everyone who is right wing goes to private school.
wow, you're really reaching and grasping aren't you.
what percentage of the kids that go to school do you think go to private school? it's a mere 10% of the population going through general education.
and no, in case it wasn't already obvious, not all the right wingers send their kids to private schools.

Well of course not all right wingers send their kids to private schools, don't be ridiculous...

If all they can afford is some crappy trailer in tornado alley, what makes anyone think they can afford to send their kids to get sum' ed-u-ma-cay-shin?

The right wingers that pull the strings to make the uneducated masses upset at anyone that isn't a White Christian cis-straight male can afford to do so though.

[Stormdash]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...irness-790220/

Children being taught the radical ideology of fairness is to blame for the majority of America foolishly believing it's okay to tax the rich. This is literally the position of Fox News here.

The are only two kinds of people who would use the Gospel as an argument for using the power of worldly government to use force of law to redistribute wealth.

Ignorant, and fraudulent.

[zenkai]

hahaha this right there is gold, you hate trust fund babies because their shit was just given to them and they never earned it so they don't deserve it instead we should give it to these folks folks who also did not earnit but they vote for me so its FAIRNESS!! hahahaha so much humor.

#liberallogic lol

[Shadowferal]

That explains the 50s-60s.

[Nynax]

but what if one family earned their wealth and another family didnt do shit?

In my opinion, everytime this argument is brought up, it's a strawman.

How many people actually want to live lives that are entirely purposeless, meaningless, and filled with nothing? People that aren't in need of mental health therapy?
Yes there's the "Gamer still in mom's basement" trope, but I highly doubt it would be this widespread catastaphy.

And I do not think there should be _no_ need to work, just that _surviving_ should not be so hard. The infrastructure upon which a modern society is built on, Healthcare and Housing, even Education to an extent, shouldn't so completely come directly out of a citizens pockets. Or at least not have their costs increase so disproportionately from people's ability to pay. So that every day you live in fear of a broken arm, because that's a medical expense it might take 10 years to fully recover from financially.