UK: 7 High ranking labour MP's quit party, Tory's facing own break up.

[Kallisto]

Bullshit. There isn't a single verifiable case of this happening. There is literally no hard evidence.

You are a liar. You are making it up. You need to either post an apology for attempting to deceive people or produce evidence.

And no you can't weasel your way out of this like you normally do, I'll keep reminding you of this issue until you do one or the other. That's a very serious accusation and you are not backing out of it.

Since you'll weasel your way back into account number 1210892376180961 I'll reply with this.

Why the fuck should I? Others have done so even on this damn page and all you did was put hand over your eyes and ears going "Nuhuh lies.". Hell I know people like you wouldn't even accept it as fact even if these people confessed to your face.

So hound me all you want, make a billion accounts that will be banned within hours. I don't give a shit.

[twrtlyuiuiop]

Since you'll weasel your way back into account number 1210892376180961 I'll reply with this.

Why the fuck should I? Others have done so even on this damn page and all you did was put hand over your eyes and ears going "Nuhuh lies.". Hell I know people like you wouldn't even accept it as fact even if these people confessed to your face.

So hound me all you want, make a billion accounts that will be banned within hours. I don't give a shit.

Like it would be so difficult to post one quote, if any actually existed.

You are a liar. You are making it up. You need to either post an apology for attempting to deceive people or produce evidence.

[twrtlyuiuiop]

Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto
There are clear cases of Labour Jewish MPs being attacked by Labour members for the simple fact of being Jewish.

Kallisto is unable to produce a source or any substantiation for this statement. When pressed for an answer he produces comical evasion and doubletalk.

[Northern Goblin]

The tired old argument of "anything not as far left of me is Tory Lite/Tories/Nazis" needs to die already. You don't see the current hard left lean of the Labour party be described as "Stalin Lite"

The greatest strength the Labour Party had was its broadchurch encompassing of all aspects of left wing politics, since Corbyn was appointed leader, a very militant esque hard left had gone on to abuse fellow members and attempt to slander them as Red Tories.

The party is split because this vocal group seems to conflate loyalty to the party with loyalty to Corbyn. What was once a proud beacon of left wing politics has become a cult of personality, that has failed to hold this shambolic government to account, nor could defeat it when it ran the worst election campaign in modern history.

Playing fast and loose with Brexit, hoping that in the aftermath of the devastating effect it'll have on the country, he can swoop in and rule over the ruins, is a selfish and reckless way to serve his constituents, his party and this country.


Corbyn must go, he's not fit to lead and every day he remains is a day longer the country suffers under a Conservative government.

[Veritasias]

The tired old argument of "anything not as far left of me is Tory Lite/Tories/Nazis" needs to die already. You don't see the current hard left lean of the Labour party be described as "Stalin Lite"

The greatest strength the Labour Party had was its broadchurch encompassing of all aspects of left wing politics, since Corbyn was appointed leader, a very militant esque hard left had gone on to abuse fellow members and attempt to slander them as Red Tories.

The party is split because this vocal group seems to conflate loyalty to the party with loyalty to Corbyn. What was once a proud beacon of left wing politics has become a cult of personality, that has failed to hold this shambolic government to account, nor could defeat it when it ran the worst election campaign in modern history.

Playing fast and loose with Brexit, hoping that in the aftermath of the devastating effect it'll have on the country, he can swoop in and rule over the ruins, is a selfish and reckless way to serve his constituents, his party and this country.


Corbyn must go, he's not fit to lead and every day he remains is a day longer the country suffers under a Conservative government.

Corbyn built the largest party membership in Europe and wiped out the government's majority, increasing Labour's share of the vote by more than any leader since the war. If you want to pretend you are not a tory then don't concoct absurd fantasies that play to a tory narraive, the facts nakedly contradict you.

There is no party split to speak among the Labour party. The breakaway group is attracting 10-14% of the vote the majority of which is coming from Liberal Democrats and Tories. The centre-left is finished in the UK as it is collapsing around Europe and the civilized world. No one wants another Blair. No one wants another leader who is identical to the Tories on every policy issue but uses flowery rhetoric to ease their conscience.

[Slant]

Their policies benefit the many.

And you shouldn't brag when a third of the population doesn't even bother to vote. That's a failure of the government to promote the democratic system among the people.

Ah, so that should be decided by a committee, I guess? How very communist of you.

[Northern Goblin]

Corbyn built the largest party membership in Europe and wiped out the government's majority, increasing Labour's share of the vote by more than any leader since the war. If you want to pretend you are not a tory then don't concoct absurd fantasies that play to a tory narraive, the facts nakedly contradict you.

There is no party split to speak among the Labour party. The breakaway group is attracting 10-14% of the vote the majority of which is coming from Liberal Democrats and Tories. The centre-left is finished in the UK as it is collapsing around Europe and the civilized world. No one wants another Blair. No one wants another leader who is identical to the Tories on every policy issue but uses flowery rhetoric to ease their conscience.

"We got the largest share of the vote"

In a low turn out election

Against the worst run campaign anyone can recall

And still ended up 55 seats behind the Tories.


Also hard to say the centre left is collapsing after the French just elected a centre left President.

- - - Updated - - -

He's not going, so suck it up. The many are done with your bullshit, your days are over. Blairites definitely need to be purged from the entire party.

Well enjoy the wilderness, Corbyn's dismal handling of being the leader of the opposition in this Brexit crisis is pushing people out of the party.

The far left isn't the many, it's the minority. If it weren't, you wouldn't still be the opposition party after the 2017 election. As is, he's keeping the Tories in power.

[JohnBrown1917]

The tired old argument of "anything not as far left of me is Tory Lite/Tories/Nazis" needs to die already. You don't see the current hard left lean of the Labour party be described as "Stalin Lite"

Probably should stop following bliarites/3rd way "soc dems" if they dont want to be called tory lite.


Its about time the left reclaims its label from centre-right liberals/neo-liberals.

[NED funded]

Labour is a mess lol. Pushing people out of the party and is currently polling below the tories who are incredibly incompetent wrt brexit. Socialists are poison to parties.

[Northern Goblin]

Corbyn is part of a multiple-elite party system. The labour party represents high-education elites, whereas the tories reresent high-income/high-wealth elites. Your projections that there is a far left class based project underway is complete fantasy. Labour and the Tories just represent two different sets of elites.

Millionaires like Corbyn who promised to be something other than a politician who dodges questions and plays politics never materialised.

Champagne socialism I believe they call it.

You look at some of the most vocal proponents, they're upper middle class, sometimes (not always) Oxbridge elites.

They run a cult of personality leader, and make promises to the common people that aren't financially viable in their manifesto, so much so that they're making a u-turn on some the day after losing an election (promising to wipe student debt anyone?)

They're increasingly seclusionist, hostile to criticism and conflicting opinions and unable to see the bigger picture. It's a poison that took the left into wilderness before and gave us 18 years of Tory rule and the rise of Thatcherism, and it's going to cripple us all again.

[LeGin Tufnel]

What's funny is that the Corbynistas are getting it so totally wrong at the moment.

Like Lloyd Russell-Moyle calling the leavers 'scabs'.

All they're doing is alienating people and making Labour more unelectable. Further raising the level of vitriol and hatred in public discourse.

At the same time he said that Corbyn is nearly at the point of pursuing a "remain and reform" policy on Brexit.

Anything to grab power, eh? Had Corbyn and his front bench pursed a remain and reform policy two years ago I'd have supported Labour without question. Now, it's far too late for that. Far too late.

If we crash out - fuck the Tories and fuck Labour. I will never vote for either party.

[JohnBrown1917]

Labour is a mess lol. Pushing people out of the party and is currently polling below the tories who are incredibly incompetent wrt brexit. Socialists are poison to parties.

Liberals have no place in a left-wing party, get used to it sweetums.
I know Americans are used to not having a strong left-wing party, but that does not fly in all countries.

- - - Updated - - -

What's funny is that the Corbynistas are getting it so totally wrong at the moment.

Like Lloyd Russell-Moyle calling the leavers 'scabs'.

All they're doing is alienating people and making Labour more unelectable. Further raising the level of vitriol and hatred in public discourse.

At the same time he said that Corbyn is nearly at the point of pursuing a "remain and reform" policy on Brexit.

Anything to grab power, eh? Had Corbyn and his front bench pursed a remain and reform policy two years ago I'd have supported Labour without question. Now, it's far too late for that. Far too late.

If we crash out - fuck the Tories and fuck Labour. I will never vote for either party.

Whats the point of power if its the liberals who are in charge of labour? That is not how political parties work.

[JohnBrown1917]

Champagne socialism I believe they call it.

You look at some of the most vocal proponents, they're upper middle class, sometimes (not always) Oxbridge elites.

They run a cult of personality leader, and make promises to the common people that aren't financially viable in their manifesto, so much so that they're making a u-turn on some the day after losing an election (promising to wipe student debt anyone?)

They're increasingly seclusionist, hostile to criticism and conflicting opinions and unable to see the bigger picture. It's a poison that took the left into wilderness before and gave us 18 years of Tory rule and the rise of Thatcherism, and it's going to cripple us all again.

If a socialist is poor he is just doing it for the 'free stuff'/'out of jealosy'/
If a socialist is not poor its 'champagne socialism'.

Funny how this always comes from the right and not the people who would actually benefit from a left-wing government.

[Northern Goblin]

Not everyone who disagrees with you is right wing, there's plenty of space between you and the centre.

Next we'll hear that the Greens, Lib Dems and SNP are right wing.

[Mighty Tim]

Are they still committing high treason over there to try and wiggle out of Brexit?

I would find it hard to believe the average UK citizen has any faith in democracy at this point..

[LeGin Tufnel]

Whats the point of power if its the liberals who are in charge of labour? That is not how political parties work.

It's not necessarily about who's in charge. It's about Labour ceasing to be a 'broad church'. In the same way the Tories are ceasing to be a 'broad church'. The Tories are in the grip of the ERG and the Brexiteers, Labour is in the grip of the hard left.

Although you may hate it, for Labour to gain power you need my demographic's vote.

You cease being a broad church, you don't get my vote. Simple as.

- - - Updated - - -

Not everyone who disagrees with you is right wing, there's plenty of space between you and the centre.

Next we'll hear that the Greens, Lib Dems and SNP are right wing.

Yes, it's absolute bollocks. They're deluded.

[JohnBrown1917]

Not everyone who disagrees with you is right wing, there's plenty of space between you and the centre.

Next we'll hear that the Greens, Lib Dems and SNP are right wing.

Liberals are right-wing, yes. Maybe some centrist, but it is in no way a left-wing idealogy.
Greens, it depends, I don't know much about the UK ones. But Green liberalism is a thing.



- - - Updated - - -

It's not necessarily about who's in charge. It's about Labour ceasing to be a 'broad church'. In the same way the Tories are ceasing to be a 'broad church'. The Tories are in the grip of the ERG and the Brexiteers, Labour is in the grip of the hard left.

Although you may hate it, for Labour to gain power you need my demographic's vote.

You cease being a broad church, you don't get my vote. Simple as.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, it's absolute bollocks. They're deluded.

That is why you get rid of the people who want to turn labour into a centrist party. You can choose to form an coalition with the centrist party if needed to govern, not outside of it. Don't start on a position of comprimise.

[Dizzeeyooo]

That is why you get rid of the people who want to turn labour into a centrist party. You can choose to form an coalition with the centrist party if needed to govern, not outside of it. Don't start on a position of comprimise.

And then Labour never wins an election in the UK again, as long as the current UK electoral system remains as it is - well done I guess?

Greens, it depends, I don't know much about the UK ones. But Green liberalism is a thing.

Are you not from the UK?

[Northern Goblin]

I don't know much about the UK ones.

Suddenly so much of this discussion makes sense to me now.

I thought you had an understanding of the various parties and the political map of the UK, more fool me.

[Koba53]

It's not necessarily about who's in charge. It's about Labour ceasing to be a 'broad church'. In the same way the Tories are ceasing to be a 'broad church'. The Tories are in the grip of the ERG and the Brexiteers, Labour is in the grip of the hard left.

Although you may hate it, for Labour to gain power you need my demographic's vote.

You cease being a broad church, you don't get my vote. Simple as.

But why is your vote so important?
You're not going to vote for the Tories so it doesn't really matter that much.
And if you do vote for them then Labour would have to move so hard right that it's a good thing if they ignore you.

If Labour continues along this path they will drag the entire country to the left. That's a good thing.
Especially when we get more articles showing how the rich doubled their wealth since the crisis.