Why is WoW not improving?

[oland138]

Well, you still had to farm sets each raid tier, and there was no way to get them from anywhere else. Also you had no choice

Yes, tier sets didn't offer choice, but when a new tier came out it was a brand new set with a brand new effect. If 8.2 launches with completely different traits that alter your playstyle in new ways, it will be great - but if season 3 is all just the same traits with higher ilvl, it will not feel as good. At least with legendaries once you had them, you had them.

I am mostly agreeing with you that azerite is better in the sense that you're not having to juggle around your gear as much to get the proper configuration. It was dumb that some classes had BiS legendaries taking the spot of a tier slot.

[cparle87]

As much as I think the current feedback system through CMs is broken beyond repair, I think you're oversimplifying the process.
There's no homogenous body of "players" who the devs can listen to. For example, this forum only has couple of hundred active WoW posters and we can never agree on anything. The real playerbase is much larger.

The whole "devs should listen to players" is a very easy thing to say, but if you think about it for a moment - how would it work in practical terms? Can you draw up that process for us?

This in a nutshell. An excellent example is the classic crowd. In any given thread there's a dozen differing opinions about what makes classic "right" and you'll never get them to agree because the tiniest detail makes it "not really classic" to them anymore.

[javierdsv]

i wouldnt call the following improvemnts;

LFR
CRZ (sharding, realm hopping)
Titanforging
AP
Mission tables
pruning
scaling
removal of rpg elements
wq
gear progression
no pvp badge gear
warmode

and much more,..

I'm sorry, but those ARE improvements.

People hate LFR, but without it most of its player base would be missing the main story plot. If they were to make raids optional and not seriously tied to the story (like let's say Destiny 2), then not having LFR would be ok... but that's not the case.
Mission tables is a way to keep people engaged to WoW even when not playing WoW, yes, I'm talking about the app. It is a clever marketing move.
Scaling and World Quests give you a powerful thing ... the ability to choose what you want to do, and where you want to do it. It could be better? Yes. Should these be heavily limited towards reputation grind? No. But they are healthy for the game.

[Osmeric]

With the constant discussions that WoW is reducing in quality, why don't the devs start listening to the players?

They probably don't have the resources to take action, even if they were "listening". The game has been showing signs of tightening budget screws for quite a while now.

[thedreameater]

People hate LFR.

Why do people hate LFR? Communities allow people with dead guilds (me) to run Heroic raids. When the LFR wings appeared it seemed to me most everyone in there already finished it on Normal and blew through the mechanics. Those who hadn't didn't really matter because the rest of us were so geared.

I don't doubt people hate LFR, I just don't understand what's to hate?

[Sansnom]

How do you listen to what players want when they all want different things?

Simple. Don't listen to them. Listen to me. I know what is good and what is bad. They don't.

That is what some people are pretty much saying.

[Big Thanks]

Simple. Don't listen to them. Listen to me. I know what is good and what is bad. They don't.

No no no

They should listen to ME.
Im a perfect representation of the rest of the world.

[Alopex Major]

Why should they improve it? People are plenty willing to pay in its current state. If that changes, then maybe changes will happen.

[MoanaLisa]

As much as I think the current feedback system through CMs is broken beyond repair, I think you're oversimplifying the process.
There's no homogenous body of "players" who the devs can listen to. For example, this forum only has couple of hundred active WoW posters and we can never agree on anything. The real playerbase is much larger.

The whole "devs should listen to players" is a very easy thing to say, but if you think about it for a moment - how would it work in practical terms? Can you draw up that process for us?

Generic non-specific criticism such as this thread is pointless. The only thing more pointless is feature-specific criticism that either pretends to speak for everyone or is laced with so much poisonous hostility it disqualifies itself from being taken seriously.

I think it's very difficult to pin down exactly what the problems are with BfA. I found it disappointing but not nearly as disappointing as Warlords was. I'm also not much of a fan of their temporary expansion-specific features. Yes, they bring some variety to the game but on the other hand good ideas are abandoned and never get past half-baked status. I have other issues which I've written about elsewhere that are not specific to BfA but can be summed up as the game is being managed by theory-crafters that prioritize math over story and inspiration. Taken together there's a suggestion of a different direction for development but I have no idea if that sort of criticism works its way through their undoubtedly impressively complicated and formula-laden spreadsheets.

[Laqweeta]

Do official forums require a sub no longer?

They do not.

[cparle87]

Blizzard could have introduced flying combat as they written it in the Wrath of the Lich King-Box
World PvP would exist. FIXED.
Or blizzard give people abilities that let them dismount people from the air. Fixed too.
Or blizzard could have added zones (or part of zones) where you get dismounted by flying by shooting them down (we had it in Burning Crusade and MoP where cannons shot you down). At least some fix for World PvP.

In a way we have flying combat. Go to Vashj'ir and go pvp someone. You'll find out very quite that WoW's engine does not handle the Z axis very well.

[Naytham]

WoW is improving despite what you think and some others think.

The addition of LFR, Transmorg, World quests, Warmode pvp quests is actually putting life back into the world of azeroth.

Sub numbers were always going to decline thats a very natural thing for an aging game. WoW is 14 years old theres no MMO out there with anywhere close to the same number of players even if WoW was sat at just 3 million players.

With every change they make carries a risk of upsetting some people as well as making people happy. But if they're not brave enough to make changes the game would go stale. And they would have lost more players quickly.

Change is the hardest thing for people yet without changes they would become bored and leave anyway.

The human condition, go figure!

That all said I'm enjoying BFA for the most part but I would like the grinds behind Allied races to be dropped completely.

holy mother of god. how delusional can you be. this people on this forum never cease to amaze me

[LedZeppelin]

because the expansions dont carry over to the next

[Muajin76]

You're delusional if you think final fantasy 14 or any of those others have more paid subs than WoW. No point discussing any further with you. You're living in a bubble.

I remember when FF online first came out. I ordered the CE edition. Launch was a clusterfuck. T.T They had to recall it...improve and put it back out.

[Eleccybubb]

I remember when FF online first came out. I ordered the CE edition. Launch was a clusterfuck. T.T They had to recall it...improve and put it back out.

Yep 1.0 was absolutely garbage and even Square themselves officially apologised for it.

Now look at it. Arguably one of the best MMOs on the market with a passionate team lead by a guy who loves MMOs.

Unlike WoW these days.

[Muajin76]

because the expansions dont carry over to the next

It would be nice to have expansions carry over. Not some rough crap..but a smooth transition.

[breslin]

The biggest problem I think WoW ran into was that the developers have tried to balanced keeping the game fresh while not changing why people liked the game.

Ill cite Mists of Pandaria. People hated the daily system in the beginning of the expansion, but the reality is that the reason the system felt so forced was actually because they changed the way rep worked and rewards surrounding valor worked. In Cata in MoP you could grind rep with tabards and buy early epic gear from the respective faction vendors. There was also a separate vendor in Dalaran that sold 2 pieces of tier and other various epics for valor badges. This meant that in Wotlk and Cata to gear before the first raid you could grind 5 mans but also acquire gear throughout the week by acquiring badges. Nobody complained about this system and yet in MoP it was completely changed. Rep could only be obtained from dailies, and there was no factionless vendor with badge gear. People hated this system and when WoD rolled around they just deleted it. The reality is that the original system wasn't hated, the updated one was and instead of reverting to what worked they just deleted it.

Another thing I noticed coming back in BFA is how simplified and homogenized the classes feel, nothing really feels distinct or complex. This may sound appealing in many ways, but I think it just shallows the player experience. You master a class overnight instead of over the course of the expansion.

[Muajin76]

WTB the times where two raids were released at once or within a week or two period.

[RoKPaNda]

Which players should they listen to? Should they listen to Mythic raiders like me who make up roughly 5% of the playerbase and are essentially playing a different game than everyone else? Our issues aren't anyone else's issues. Most likely the issues you've heard repeated since beta were from one of us, your favorite youtuber or twitch streamer is or was one of us, and catering to us as opposed to the massive army of casuals that keep this game afloat would be disastrous. There's enough of us on the dev team that they know how to make the game good for us, they don't have to listen to our whining, they need to listen to everyone else to make sure they don't fuck the game up for everyone else while fixing our issues.

Listening to the players is the exact opposite of "improving".

This.

[Mojo03]

I came back after 6 months, did all the new stuff in a couple days and am pretty bored already.

The game just feels soulless and like it was made by people who are good at logically justifying decisions internally, but lack artistic intuition.

Honestly, they probably like their jobs and are doing enough to keep them, so what incentive do they really have?