TCG Rewards in Classic

[tikcol]

This is your whole argument right there. It's YOUR definition. It's the wrong definition.

P2W = pay to win. You need to pay to win the game. You do this by getting an advantage that people who don't pay, can't get. So, first. What is there to win in WoW? Nothing really, but you could argue getting rank 1 in PvP or world first in the hardest raid is winning in Classic. So, what advantage does buying a mount offer that a) helps win and b) can't be achieved without money. Well, it won't help you win in raids. Not sure about PvP, can you use mounts? Let's assume you can, so it could offer you and advantage in PvP. But b) you can achieve the exact same thing without money. So in no way is a mount P2W. Well, except when you change the definition of P2W to something completely different so it fits whatever argument you have. But we don't do that.

Have you ever leveled a character in vanilla? 100g is a lot of money at lvl 40. You can level professions with it, you can buy BOEs off the AH.

Leveling with a mount at lvl 40 is also a huge advantage, be in in pure leveling, node farming and pvp. I wouldn't go as far as saying its p2w but dismissing it as you're doing isn't being fair either.

[Jyggalag]

If you're publicly posting on a forum that this is P2W, you can expect others to open up a discussion about it. Saying it's not open for debate is a little naive. Just keep your ideas for yourself then instead if you don't want to talk about it.

So, no, I still don't agree and since you're just going further with writing out why you think it's P2W. So will I go further.

There's no gear advantage over other players. Speed is not very relevant, it's mostly just a way to reach your destination a little faster. It definitely is convinient but there is no advantage over others.

If gear were for sale, bonuses that would improve your stamina, strength etc. then I would agree that it's P2W.

it is P2W. it's an in-game advantage. I could have easily chose to open the thread with "mounts are an in-game advantage" but I shortened to the widely agreed definition of P2W for exchanging real money for in-game advantages. End of discussion. If you think otherwise, open a new thread debating the phrase P2W. Jesus Christ

[lonely zergling]

it is P2W. it's an in-game advantage. I could have easily chose to open the thread with "mounts are an in-game advantage" but I shortened to the widely agreed definition of P2W for exchanging real money for in-game advantages. End of discussion. If you think otherwise, open a new thread debating the phrase P2W. Jesus Christ

There wont be real mounts if they use the appropriate tcg rewards for classic (if they even were available before tbc prepatch). Only a slow as fuck turtle that has no speed gain.

[Jyggalag]

There wont be real mounts if they use the appropriate tcg rewards for classic (if they even were available before tbc prepatch). Only a slow as fuck turtle that has no speed gain.

Yes thanks to you and others in this thread for confirming - I wasn't sure. So given that the potential P2W element has been debunked; back to the topic at hand.

[Jyggalag]

The TCG mount isn't faster than other epic mounts. And no, it's zero advantage in anything that matters.

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It's literally fucking cosmetic only. Holy fuck dude.

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Nope. Still not pay to win.

Are you literally that dense? Nobody's arguing it's faster than an in-game mount. A 60% or 100% mount being available through an in-game store circumvents the need to pay for it with in-game resources which take a long time to farm during your first playthrough. It's the equivalent of being able to buy (potentially) 90 gold from a blizzard store with real money. It's practically negligable in the grand scheme of things but it's still, by definition, P2W -

https://allods.my.com/forum/index.ph...d&postID=72663

Explaining a common definition of the term "pay-to-win".
NOTE: This post is supposed to be informative and helpful for those who don't know what the term "pay-to-win" means. It's in no way supposed to be negative and the purpose is not to tell you if Allods is pay-to-win or not.

Please note that the term "pay-to-win" is subjective and may have slightly different meanings to different people, but when (known) critics talk about pay-to-win in reviews, gaming magazines etc., it's usually similar to the definitions mentioned in this post since it's a quite genral meaning of the term.

(I have also added some happy smilies here and there just to spread more positivity and happy thoughts, lol )

I hope that this thread may reduce the amount of spam and arguments about the whole pay-to-win thing, by helping people get a better understanding of the term. I'm simply going to copy/paste the most common explanation from several different known sources. :thumbup:

"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay."
- Wikipedia

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)."
- Urban Dictionary

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

The average player or anyone new to Classic WoW will have an incredibly difficult time obtaining the worst case scenario of 90g needed for a 60% mount before they're even level 60. It's an insane advantage for leveling and further gold making at end-game. Anyone who would have 90g and say $30 for the store mount would STILL HAVE 90g FOR PROFS AND GEAR AND [XYZ HERE]

Fuck off and educate yourself

[Margamanthak]

It doesn't matter, since the Riding Turtle TCG mount, the first TCG mount in the game from the Heroes of Azeroth set, wasn't added until 2.0 (according to wowhead), so it won't be a part of classic ANYWAYS. Also, the Riding Turtle moves at RUNNING speed, so there is NO in-game advantage to spending money on it.

[Jyggalag]

Still not pay to win since a mount that goes exactly the same speed isn't an advantage so having to grind for it is irrelevant. You haven't once explained what the advantage of even having a mount is.

You're either completely missing the point or being purposely obtuse. I'll go with the latter since I don't want to believe you're that stupid.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...iding_cost_in/

originally the prices were 100G for level 40 (60%) and 1000G for level 60 (100%)

Assuming the above makes it live to Classic WoW (we know it won't, but theoretically speaking to dismantle your retarded notion that this isn't by very definition pay-to-win), it's a MASSIVE advantage in the first few weeks/months of release or just in general during the grind to 60 and in the first few months of playtime after the fact in helping set up any initial gold making system (need gold to make gold). No one is at any time during this thread arguing that there's any sort of speed advantage or any advantage outside of getting a mount without having to spend a very scarce resource that can only be farmed with hours of effort or having an understanding of the basic premise of the WoW economy from the get-go.

I don't think I need to explain the advantage of "having a mount". The advantage of having a cash store bought mount is having a mount without having to forfeit a precious in-game resource that is ultimately needed for literally almost everything else. Replace "cash store with mount" with "cash store where you can exchange RL $ for in-game gold that you can only spend on your first mount" and it's effectively the same thing. Write it down and take as long as you need to wrap your tiny brain around it.

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It doesn't matter, since the Riding Turtle TCG mount, the first TCG mount in the game from the Heroes of Azeroth set, wasn't added until 2.0 (according to wowhead), so it won't be a part of classic ANYWAYS. Also, the Riding Turtle moves at RUNNING speed, so there is NO in-game advantage to spending money on it.

A fact I've long accepted but at this stage we're just taking 20 posts to explain to those of us who are a bit slower how exchanging RL $ for a mount in classic would be by definition P2W given that P2W is a subjective phrase.

[meheez]

My body is ready.

[Jyggalag]

My body is ready.

Incredible. Should do an unboxing video if the old card serials can be used in classic. 10/10 would watch

[meheez]

Incredible.

Sorry :P

[Gavll]

This just isn't up for debate lads. If I purchase a mount with real money, i've got 90g less to worry about that I can sink into other things, not to mention the effeciency it affords while leveling. Spin it all you like, it's a P2W advantage if mounts are offered via a cash store. I'm neither for nor against. I can see the arguements from both sides and personally would love to P2W me some specrtral tiger. You're just arguing semantics at this point. I want to hear pros/cons or alternatives, not "is a cash shop offering an in-game advantage of any kind P2W?". It depends on your definition of P2W - and it falls under mine.

But level 40 mounts cost 10g or 9g with the discount in 1.12. So you're not really getting any "win" and it's a largely irrelevant "pay" too.
If they let you buy the riding skill for real money, that might constitute P2W.

Since we don't know which mount system they're going to use yet, we have to assume 1.12, therefore not P2W

[Dimad]

You realize that buying the mount with real money is not really an advantage right? The mounts costed like 10 gold. Now if you had said buying the riding skill, which was the real gold sink in vanilla, then yes. I would agree as p2w. But only so far as having the skill before most other people. Once most other people have the skill then no, its not. All it happens to be at that point was you had the patience of a 5 year old and are now out of x amount of money.

[Jyggalag]

The mounts costed like 10 gold.

Originally they were a lot more, thus the basis for my argument.

Since we don't know which mount system they're going to use yet, we have to assume 1.12, therefore not P2W

This was never contested. The point you've quoted is from a debate surrounding the actual definition of P2W using the hypothetical that the mounts might cost a lot of gold if classic released with the same system Vanilla was released with. I'm largely a believer that this won't be the case.

[pinkz]

landro longshot for TCG codes was not added into the game until BC

[Jyggalag]

It's not pay to win. Get over it.

I've proved time and time again that "it" is. By literal definition quoted from multiple sources. Just because you're incapable of comprehending the evidence doesn't make you any more right than it makes my dog's shit smell like roses. The burden of proof is on you. I am over this entire debate until you can convince anybody but yourself that "it's" not.

[xindralol]

The fact that you could purchase a mount for real money is P2W. I have real money. My first level 40 character in Classic might not have enough gold to purchase a mount + riding skill. With a shop, I can purchase the riding skill with gold and the mount with real money = massive advantage over players who can't afford.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...iding_cost_in/

At one point the mount itself cost 90G at level 40.

I think it was always true you could get a tiny advantage maybe save a couple hours of ingame time for a disproportionately large payment of IRL money.
You're right 100g by level 40 will be tough for most people but in no way would it justify spending $1k+. I wouldn't mind them allowing old TCG codes to be used on classic realms though even if it's just to get some of those codes out of circulation (obviously this would also not apply to live realms).

[lottobot]

TCG is retired bro, just becuase classic is coming out doesn't mean it's coming out of retirment lol

[vsb]

The fact that you could purchase a mount for real money is P2W. I have real money. My first level 40 character in Classic might not have enough gold to purchase a mount + riding skill. With a shop, I can purchase the riding skill with gold and the mount with real money = massive advantage over players who can't afford.

If you have money, you can buy gold and then buy anything.

[Jyggalag]

TCG is retired bro, just becuase classic is coming out doesn't mean it's coming out of retirment lol

You don't think blizz would want to make a few of the items available just as they were back in Vanilla but through different means? Even if they made a little $?

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If you have money, you can buy gold and then buy anything.

How do we know you can buy gold in Classic WoW?

[vsb]

How do we know you can buy gold in Classic WoW?

Because there are always people farming gold and wanting to sell it.