Was the battle of Dazar'alor a fiasco for the Alliance?

[Eslizon92]

Given how Alliance has to recruit peasants at the start of that patch because things are going so poorly for them while the Horde has no such problems, that'd be one of those plot contrivances, yes. Not exactly complicated.

Because we didn't recruited peaseants at the end And we will not need it since we are winning the war
Just watch the cutscene of Rasthakan funeral and the Reunion of alliance leaderships, Wyrmbane and Nathanos said alliance is winning this war and they are near the victory, so horde is sucking in this war, not alliance. And horde was sending peasants to the war since the start, just watch how many orcs pawns that we kill in Stormsong as alliance.

[Eazy]

Alliance killed Rastakhan and destroyed Zandalari fleet.

And lost what? Almost nothing, Gelbin will be ressurected in Mechagon or something and Jaina just walked it off.

[sam86]

the fleet can't devastate every Horde city from the water

Orgrimmar is very vulnerable to a water attack, as we saw in many older lore sources like Prelude to Cataclysm or that book about theramore bombing or also the book about worgens getting to horde
You only need to take Orgrimmar to dismantle the horde, in fact why did they attack Undercity in first place? for the lols? even if Undercity fall Horde will still stand, Orgrimmar on other hand will be the end

[La]

How did it get to this point anyway? At the end of MoP, Varian could have wiped the Horde out by taking out Garrosh, then Sylvanas and Thrall all at once if not for Jaina (a lot of good not doing that did anyone). At that point the Horde had basically no forces and had nothing, it was the Alliance army that basically dealt with the Iron Horde problemso what happened? Did Legion conveniently wipe out all of the Alliance's forces, and BFA somehow buffed the Horde forces up ridiculously, despite the fact the Horde is losing every battle? Or is this all just shitty, inconsistent writing that they use for whatever is most convenient to the story?

[sam86]

Gelbin will be ressurected in Mechagon

i don't remember ever Geblin counted in 'alliance force' or be a major player, and that comes from ex-warlock gnome
unless i'm missing something, Geblin was never a big deal, so they lost nothing

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Or is this all just shitty, inconsistent writing that they use for whatever is most convenient to the story?

u just answered urself, i was just pointing out how it doesn't make sense the lost honor video about alliance have to use farmers in their war, even if horde is just losing since bfa, all horde 'won' was the 'morally grey' burning alive innocent civilians and their homeland, most nelf army was out, and rest of alliance army too, so military might took very minor blow in that stupid move that was on a wimp because she couldn't find a smart ass comeback comment

still officially alliance are suffering, how no f8cking clue, seriously how is because 'they said so'

[ophion1990]

During the War of Thorns the discrepancy is explained easily. The Horde characters moves in the area early and then leaves, unaware of what is happening after. In Vol'dun the Alliance can definitely see the Vul'pera being shackled and attacked with fire, it just mostly occurs in caves and since the Alliance has no quests in there, most players won't really see it happen.

Alliance can see it happen but it isn't how it goes down during assaults, right? As for the WoT stuff, that's the point, it's willfully hidden from the player. If we're already burning down a city full of civillians, why hide the Astranaar stuff, just let the PC firebomb it or w/e. The Tauren part and MoP stuff also shows that not everything the player sees is canon.

[Jester Joe]

I am aware. IIRC with the pre BfA stuff, wasn't there also things like the Horde scouting Astranaar and killing guards, yet from the Alliance PoV everyone was rounded up and executed? Or did I miss the explanation of why things seemed to contradict one another? Similarly, druids and, AFAIK, tauren in general, were off in Silithus to help heal Azeroth, yet they were still present in-game. Same thing with the Vulpera being burned alive in Vol'dun, AFAIK, as Alliance you don't actually see that happen during your quests either.

There's another example in MoP where the Horde and Alliance both work with some pandaren, yet both also seemed to have enslaved them from the others' perspective. Both were witnessed by players, so did both factions enslave and liberate pandaren? Seems more likely that, as I said, it's both factions thinking of themselves as better than the other, while thinking of the other as worse than they actually are. From their perspective they freed pandaren from slavery, yet the ones working with them were just volunteers.

I know it sounds like reaching but you have to admit that Greymane behaves a little out of character here, you don't go from calling the Horde monsters in Legion, a time of strenuous peace, to gently requesting surrender, during a time of all out war, when you're in the midst of battle.

He's called the Forsaken and the Horde monsters because of their actions.

He has no reason to hate the Zandalari, so no reason to call them monsters. There's nothing out of character about it.

Just watch how he treats anyone who's suffering a loss for example, or how he treats anyone who's lost their home/at risk of losing their home. He's gruff, but he's always sympathize with people going through similar pain.

What's FAR more out of character is the idea of him demanding someones child when he knows the pain of losing a child.

[dekal]

In case you've missed the story on the horde's end, even the horde leaders acknowledge that the war is looking grim. The battle for Dazar'alor's main objective was to cripple the horde's newest ally and to fracture their bond with them. While the bond between the horde and Zandalari remains strong for now, the whole Baine story arc may change that entirely and may even lead to another civil war. Also the main reason the horde wanted to recruit the zandalari in the first place, their fleet, is now gone.

[Verdugo]

Because we didn't recruited peaseants at the end And we will not need it since we are winning the war
Just watch the cutscene of Rasthakan funeral and the Reunion of alliance leaderships, Wyrmbane and Nathanos said alliance is winning this war and they are near the victory, so horde is sucking in this war, not alliance. And horde was sending peasants to the war since the start, just watch how many orcs pawns that we kill in Stormsong as alliance.

Ban evasion is not nice.

[Oswen]

Everything is a fiasco for the Alliance.
The raid was basically a suicide mission with no purpose, it only caused major losses in the Alliance with Mekkatorque's death and the whole clowning of Jaina, not only that but it made the Horde stronger by offing an incompetent nobody (sorry Rastakhan) and replacing him with a Horde fangirl.

Those whole lot of two lines of "Alliance is winning" is just to make sure the Horde "surprisingly" turns the table, expect the Kul tiran fleet to disappear offscreen soon enough.
I feel sorry for Alliance players.

[Mehrunes]

Everything is a fiasco for the Alliance.
The raid was basically a suicide mission with no purpose, it only caused major losses in the Alliance with Mekkatorque's death and the whole clowning of Jaina, not only that but it made the Horde stronger by offing an incompetent nobody (sorry Rastakhan) and replacing him with a Horde fangirl.

Gelbin isn't dead though. Just frozen. And obviously going to be turned into a Mechagnome in Gnome heritage armor questline in 8.2. Probably with in-built nukes.

"The prelates are already back"

They never left. They were always around.

Way to use your normal cop out though on the rest.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_Prelate_Rata Would you look at that, your're wrong as always. And even then, you're moving the goalposts from Rezan. Come on, quoting my supposed post in which I said Rezan is back shouldn't be that hard.

And what "normal copout"? I typically respond to posts in their entirety. Oh, wait... Were you talking to yourself there? Because making shit up when you run out of arguments does indeed sound like something you'd typically do, so it fits.

[Eslizon92]

Everything is a fiasco for the Alliance.
The raid was basically a suicide mission with no purpose, it only caused major losses in the Alliance with Mekkatorque's death and the whole clowning of Jaina, not only that but it made the Horde stronger by offing an incompetent nobody (sorry Rastakhan) and replacing him with a Horde fangirl.

Those whole lot of two lines of "Alliance is winning" is just to make sure the Horde "surprisingly" turns the table, expect the Kul tiran fleet to disappear offscreen soon enough.
I feel sorry for Alliance players.

Major loses? nah, Zandalari lost the 80% of their fleet and thousands of sailors and horde state is very bad for now.

Ban evasion is not nice.

What??? Can you tell me when I was banned??? False accusations are not nice.

[Jester Joe]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_Prelate_Rata Would you look at that, your're wrong as always. And even then, you're moving the goalposts from Rezan. Come on, quoting my supposed post in which I said Rezan is back shouldn't be that hard.

And what "normal copout"? I typically respond to posts in their entirety. Oh, wait... Were you talking to yourself there? Because making shit up when you run out of arguments does indeed sound like something you'd typically do, so it fits.

The Loa are immortal. The turtle already reincarnated. The Prelates that relied on Rezan are already back.

"The turtle already reincarnated" followed up by the immediate "rezans followers are back already".

Because normally, that is logically saying that since the turtle is back and so is rezans followers, that Rezan is back too.

Unless you're going to redact that, which just makes it even more illogical as to WHY you felt the need to say that because it doesn't change at all what I said.

Rezan is dead right now. There is NO knowing when he'll come back, or IF he will.

And your normal copout of "I'm so smart and everyone else is so wrong" while not actually proving anything, or just handwaving actual facts while moving goalposts.

[Verdugo]

"The turtle already reincarnated" followed up by the immediate "rezans followers are back already".

Because normally, that is logically saying that since the turtle is back and so is rezans followers, that Rezan is back too.

Your sense of logic quite disconnected from actual logic.

[Eslizon92]

Ban evasion is not nice.

Waiting for your answer. ;-)

[Captain Douchebag]

"The turtle already reincarnated" followed up by the immediate "rezans followers are back already".

Because normally, that is logically saying that since the turtle is back and so is rezans followers, that Rezan is back too.

No, it really isn't. Especially when you take into consideration the quote he aimed that response at.

[Jester Joe]

No, it really isn't. Especially when you take into consideration the quote he aimed that response at.

>Rezan is dead
>His followers are back already.

His followers have nothing to do with if Rezan himself is back or not.
It's irrelevant.

So what other point could it serve for saying it if not to try to disprove that Rezan himself is dead?

[Every Pwny]

You're really twisting this around.

Who is going to know more about the fleets status, the ruler or a spy?

If Talanji says it's in ruins, its in ruins. You also have to keep in mind how many people DIED on those boats.

Like, it doesn't take an insignificant amount to man a boat. You can keep harping on the Alliance troops that were lost, but the Zandalari lost a huge amount on the boats too, it's not like the boats were empty.

Not really, most of the ships that were destroyed were docked (non-docked ships were sent to Nazmir) it doesn't mean the docked ships were fully manned and more than likely they were not. You can say something is in ruins with not all of it destroyed, it doesn't mean the whole thing is destroyed. The only actual estimate we get is from Shaw, Talanji is more just upset with how much is destroyed.

[Jester Joe]

Not really, most of the ships that were destroyed were docked (non-docked ships were sent to Nazmir) it doesn't mean the docked ships were fully manned and more than likely they were not. You can say something is in ruins with not all of it destroyed, it doesn't mean the whole thing is destroyed. The only actual estimate we get is from Shaw, Talanji is more just upset with how much is destroyed.

You can go and enter the raid again and see that Zandalaris were getting flung off by the explosions. There's not much debate to be had here.

[Mehrunes]

>Rezan is dead
>His followers are back already.

His followers have nothing to do with if Rezan himself is back or not.
It's irrelevant.

So what other point could it serve for saying it if not to try to disprove that Rezan himself is dead?

It's almost as if in that post as a whole I was arguing against your overall notion of how terribly beaten the Zandalari were or something... For which you provided the amazing example of Rezan. Who had two primary roles: being the Loa of Kings and being the source of power for the Prelates. Bwomsamedi almost immediately replaced him in the first role. And the Prelates already found new source of power and new Zandalari Paladins are merrily running around. Which renders the biggest consequences of Rezan's death in terms of power of the Zandalari moot. Which was the point of mentioning that Prelates are back. If I wanted to say Rezan is back I'd say Rezan is back, because words mean things. Shocking, I know.

@Captain Douchebag was right in saying you should look at what I aimed the response at. Alas, it's much better to run around in circles because you can't handle being wrong.

Not really, most of the ships that were destroyed were docked (non-docked ships were sent to Nazmir) it doesn't mean the docked ships were fully manned and more than likely they were not. You can say something is in ruins with not all of it destroyed, it doesn't mean the whole thing is destroyed. The only actual estimate we get is from Shaw, Talanji is more just upset with how much is destroyed.

You're making sense. We don't do that here.

You can go and enter the raid again and see that Zandalaris were getting flung off by the explosions. There's not much debate to be had here.

I wonder what the "fully" part of "fully manned" in @Every Pwny's post means...