WoW should go more solo player (new try)

[HitRefresh]

Many PUGs for raids and dungeons I did in the past were like that. No one really talk. No one really crack jokes. My guess is that they are to kill boss and collect loot. Not to make friends. Do you speak to random people every time? If not, why not?

People in the past used to at the very least communicate what mobs they are going to CC. But yes, people talked, and dungeons and such were more than just cakewalks so it did require communication to be effective most of the time. That's because the game used to be designed around that stuff, but now people can just do their rotation, everyone has these abilities that hit everything around them, and stuff just dies, and you get to the end and you get your loot, thus no one talks because there's no incentive. It's kind of like, if I play Overwatch, and I'm playing competitive mode and I'm with people who are trying to win, they're going to be much more likely to communicate because that increases your ability to win. If I'm playing Storm Rising on normal difficulty then no one is going to communicate because there's no reason to, and that's more like what dungeons are like now. I'm sure mythic raiding and certain levels of mythic+ dungeons still require and incentivise communication however, but it's no longer commonplace and certainly not something experienced by players leveling up. And this creates a huge wall for new players after they hit max level and want to progress beyond mindless dungeon runs.

Human lives got busier since 2004.

Maybe for kids growing up, but that's not really true. Today almost every game gives practically instant gratification. I don't understand how an adult 15 years ago is any more busy today than before, there wasn't some paradigm shift in that regard. If anything I would say it used to be harder to find a game that people could consistently play, but now most games are built to be "evergreen", or replayable due to long term goals (such as competitive ranking) and constant content updates (like additional character skin unlocks). If nothing else, games will have DLC that brings players back to the game by spending a little more money, which requires a lot less time and resources to create than an entire new game.

current Wow needs to cater to the needs of busy people.

Can you explain how it is not? The duration of dungeons has decreased immensely, world quests can be done in a very short amount of time, a lot of content like warfronts are only available once a month or so, and that gives you plenty of time that you don't need to play the game. Also when you go to do it, it only takes like 10-15 minutes and you get your guaranteed tier 3 reward. There's even LFR which allows you to raid very easily, and you only have to do one wing at a time. Epic battlegrounds are a separate queue now, so if you're tighter on time you don't have things like AV in your random pool to queue for. Battlegrounds like Warsong are on a timer now, so it's no longer possible that matches will be dragged out for an hour. What do you think is something you can't do due to being busy?

[MoanaLisa]

People in the past used to at the very least communicate what mobs they are going to CC. But yes, people talked, and dungeons and such were more than just cakewalks so it did require communication to be effective most of the time.

That ended with Cataclysm heroics. Blizzard learned a lesson there.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Plenty of solo RPGs exist.

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Yes, absolutely. I think a big part of what makes ESO popular, is its solo-ability. GW2 as well. There is no future in MMOs forcing social interactions on their players anymore. Human lives got busier since 2004.

Classic is coming soon and I'm a big fan of Vanilla. I will play it again. It is a different game from current Wow, however, and current Wow needs to cater to the needs of busy people.

Anyone remembers original Guild Wars where you could hire henchmen to go adventuring with you? Wow could go that route. Alternatively, and something I would prefer, would be if all group activities were completely scale-able. Playing solo? No problem. Playing with a spouse? Same thing. Adjust the difficulty and rewards accordingly.

This is something they could do and would be vastly popular. I won't hold my breath though.

Then play those games. Problem solved.

[analmoose]

More solo? I’ve been playing solo for 8+ years. Every now and then I group up with some advanced AI in LFG or LFR and that’s it. Everything else I can do completely by myself. What extra solo content do you think we need?

TBH not sure the AI in LFR is quite that advanced...

[Sencha]

This is the most stupid thread I have ever seen.

Play a solo RPG dude...

[Sansnom]

People in the past used to at the very least communicate what mobs they are going to CC. But yes, people talked, and dungeons and such were more than just cakewalks so it did require communication to be effective most of the time.

That was not what I was referring to when I asked if people talked, my mistake. In any case, what you said basically just suggested talked merely to ask if people knew what they were suppose to do. So not much different than today then. If it was not for that, then people would not talked anymore in the past than they do now seems to be what you are suggesting.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

That was not what I was referring to when I asked if people talked, my mistake. In any case, what you said basically just suggested talked merely to ask if people knew what they were suppose to do. So not much different than today then. If it was not for that, then people would not talked anymore in the past than they do now seems to be what you are suggesting.

I disagree, there is a marked difference.

[seleri]

I personally think this a troll post, but prove me wrong. Please explain how WoW is not mostly a solo player game now... and especially how it is not more of a solo game than it was post-WOTLK.

I'll bite.
WotLK only had 4 forms of group content: dungeons, raids, BGs(for the purpose of this, I'm counting Wintergrasp as a BG), and arenas.
BfA has 6: dungeons (including m+ which is a huge step up from WoTLK dungeons), raids, BGs, arenas, island expeditions, and warfronts(+soon heroic warfronts).

The game is what you make of it, people just have more options now. If you want to play solo and only do WQs, you certainly can but you won't get very good rewards compared to people doing content that requires you put together a group, which has always been the case.

[MoanaLisa]

Multiple people can't play together if all activities are done solo with AI. Multiplayer games have nothing to do with shared world or space.

A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG, or more commonly, MMO) is an online game with large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, on the same server. MMOs usually feature a huge, persistent open world, although some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass...er_online_game

There's a definition. There are others. You have your own and I won't try to convince you otherwise that the words Massive Multiplayer Online game mean exactly what they say. Believe what you like. The words are clear.

I wasn't suggesting it as the only way to play. Just an option for those who are already mostly excluded from groups for reasons of either their own or the community. They aren't in your groups now by definition and if more of them aren't in your groups in the future then they have expressed their preference for social play. It comes down to choosing who you wish to play with. If you really want to go down the road of forced interaction then fine. Drop the ability to kick people from groups and enjoy your forced interaction.

I suspect this is coming to WoW anyway. They've already poked at it in Warlords and other popular MMORPG's are enabling it. Bottom line: Blizzard won't be far behind.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass...er_online_game

There's a definition. There are others. You have your own and I won't try to convince you otherwise that the words Massive Multiplayer Online game mean exactly what they say. Believe what you like. The words are clear.

I wasn't suggesting it as the only way to play. Just an option for those who are already mostly excluded from groups for reasons of either their own or the community. They aren't in your groups now by definition and if more of them aren't in your groups in the future then they have expressed their preference for social play. It comes down to choosing who you wish to play with. If you really want to go down the road of forced interaction then fine. Drop the ability to kick people from groups and enjoy your forced interaction.

I suspect this is coming to WoW anyway. They've already poked at it in Warlords and other popular MMORPG's are enabling it. Bottom line: Blizzard won't be far behind.

Then play those games? Don't be surprised if people dislike these changes. It takes away from the already established game, and like I've said single player games already exist, and as you just point out "single player' MMOs already exist as well.

I don't see this as a good change to the game at all.

[Jtbrig7390]

Blizzard has doubled down enough on creating systems to throw random players together. Whether they address that by creating more solo content or whatever they would be well advised to think about what it's doing to their game.

More solo play would suit a lot of people. Surveys of players in other MMOs have turned up a percentage of over 50% of all players are going it alone. The economics are simple. Contrary to opinion here a lot more solo content or content that allowed players to access it solo or with very small groups (like two or three) would probably benefit the business side of the game. Systems such as this need not hinder those that either want to do the content with complete strangers or in guilds. It also doesn't need to reward "best" gear or anything like it. But it would be welcome, make no mistake.

Honestly if they made more solo content (or higher difficulty raids queable, I would return in a heart beat).

[MoanaLisa]

Honestly if they made more solo content (or higher difficulty raids queable, I would return in a heart beat).

Putting aside the community aspect in which I think a lot of silly arguments are being made about how the game would be terribly affected if a lot of players who are already playing solo or with friends were to be able to access more content while continuing to play solo (or with friends), the business aspect is pretty simple: It's likely that people would stay around perhaps another month after expansion launches and return for patches.

The competition aspect is that Blizzard's competitors are already doing this.

[grandgato]

Then play those games? Don't be surprised if people dislike these changes. It takes away from the already established game, and like I've said single player games already exist, and as you just point out "single player' MMOs already exist as well.

I don't see this as a good change to the game at all.

How does giving players who are already not participating in group content more to do, and a reason to stay subscribed longer "take away from the already established game"?

[Jtbrig7390]

The competition aspect is that Blizzard's competitors are already doing this.

Yep and sooner or later blizzard will have to do it. Just right now they are wanting to have their old cake and eat it as well.

[clevin]

That ended with Cataclysm heroics. Blizzard learned a lesson there.

Which wasn't that hard dungeons are bad, but which was not to whipsaw back and forth. The people in Cata were not the same people in Classic/TBC who liked the difficulty and knew how to deal with it. The where by and large wrath babies who'd been raised on the Wrath 5 mans... which were piss easy.

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How does giving players who are already not participating in group content more to do, and a reason to stay subscribed longer "take away from the already established game"?

Because Blizzard won't keep the amount of group content we have AND add solo content.

[Sansnom]

That is because a lot of people only see role playing as the ability to control everything. It is not. Role playing is playing a role even if it is on rails.

And what roles are you referring to? The role of the hero? That is the only choice?

Blizzard still allows you a lot of freedom to role play as you want.

Right. And what freedom do I have in the game?

All role play games have been on rails.

So it is on rails. So do I have freedom or not?

Even those that give the illusion of choice still have rails. The Witcher series was on rails but give a freedom of where to direct those rails. You still had a set character to play. You couldn't be a time cop. You were the Witcher.

It is very difficult to write a role playing game with a vast expanse of choices. However, there has been some attempts to add some limit of choice to the player.

Have you played Fallout 1 and Fallout 2? Those had choices in the way you play and quests outcomes. Yes, the main quest is on rails. It has to be. But the side quests did have choices which does affect the game. So I disagree that all games were on rails because the player can make choices.

Wow has no choices what so ever. The only choices are pick a class and skills.

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I disagree, there is a marked difference.

Out of curiosity, what did you talk about to your random group of strangers in the past beyond what are their knowledge of the said dungeon instance?

Have people tried to start some random conversation with random strangers?

My experience of dungeons run during BC and now are the same. People rarely talked beyond asking people if they knew what to do. Your experiences are of course very different by the sound of it.

[Rendark]

Not everything needs to have a solo mode. It's a MMO, you should need people to do things like raids and battlegrounds.

[Fred Skinner]

Would you still refuse to do dungeons if the 4 "players" that did it with you acted exactly as players, but were AI instead?

I would like to have the followers from my mission table to be my group in that case. And i should be able to have a degree of influence on their actions. Imagine you had an actionbar with common commands as like "attack, follow me, defensive cooldown and offensive cooldown", and had to use it at the right moment.

[MrLachyG]

WoW could be way more successfull probably if it would focus on the solo player part more than it does now.

What do you think?

No. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to level my Kul Tiran Druid

[Fred Skinner]

But you are actively asking for them to change group play into grouping with AI. If group play is not a fundamental part of MMORPG's then there is no need for any developer to change it so you can do those activities 100% with out other humans.

It would be an option. Imagine you could chose between a guild group or a group you build out of the NPCs from your mission table. I think there is nothing lost for those who like to play group content when those who would like to be able to define their own schedules and group composition as a solo gameplay had the chance to do that as well.

AI battlegrounds are fun but hardly something that will work longer term.

Face the fact it was massively successfull. Face the fact it had close to zero queue times. Face the fact that this is the experience people want.. and no real enemies that outsmart or overgear them. Face the fact that your idea about what a MMORPG should be is from the Everquest era, and paradigms like yours are a brickwall against a game that really would adress many of its players.

It is to easy to game the AI. It was beyond weird how many people treated AB like a normal game.

That is because normal players are no hardcore gamers. They do not really care about AI flaws, but play the game for fun.

When you could so easily trap the AI at the blacksmith for an easy 4-cap win. Certain game play being AI is fun for diversions but not the best at content longevity. It would also artificially increase content like Dungeons. Because now you are at the whims of the AI and how good they are programmed.

Those are just hollow platitudes to get rid of the idea AI works. And it does. And it is successfull. The fact contradict your paradigms. You love a convenient platitude over a truth that contradicts your own agenda about the game.

Players, good ones at least, can adapt. Can redeploy.

Most players are no good players. And are not willing to adapt. There is a quote from Greg Street somewhere.

Can salvage situations that would be wipes.

Normal players do not want to wipe.

No game can program that into AI. And not everyone should get to play a game exactly as they want. They are not the Dungeon Master setting up their own personal campaign. They are playing with in a game. Blizzard already does a lot that is allowed to be solo. They don't need to add more.

You can actually program an AI that helps you to defeat hard situations very well. Almost every single player game with NPC groups does that. But beside that, the AI version would probably not be the hardest content in the game, but offer normal and heroic as difficulties. The mythic raiders would keep their hard niche as players only.

You don't need a guild. You don't need organized groups. It is very solo friendly. There is a difference between solo friendly and 100% solo for everything. It is still a multiplayer game and will still requiring grouping with players. Given the past thread where Warmodes (groups with other players) is acceptable content but 5-man dungeons are not is strange. It even makes this a concept that isn't just about solo play but other things entirely.

I think the game should be 100% soloable with NPC groups. I think, as MoanaLisa wrote, it would adress half of the players of world of warcraft, and add potentially new customers.

This would be the outcome. This would be the truth. And not agenda driven pathos you produce in this thread.