How come BfA is worse than Legion?

[derpkitteh]

Now this isn't meant to be demeaning or ridiculing in any way, but I don't really know how you haven't been banned.
In every post I've seen you make, you've used some uh.. very inspired and harsh languages usually aimed towards a specific group of people or an individual.

Have you made a pact with the devil?

sometimes i do, sometimes i don't.

speaking harshly isn't wrong, it shows your displeasure with something.

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so you rather have literally no content, then tons of content, but you dislike 1 of your specs?

yes, actually.

i'd rather have good gameplay than tons of things to do.

if BfA still had the speed and power of legion, i'd probably be having fun right now(though the story would still be total shit.)

[FelPlague]

If you're forced to do content in a spec or class that you hate playing, then you won't enjoy the content no matter how fun it is.
It's like going "WHY AREN'T YOU ENJOYING YOUR DRIVE?!" while you're on a beautiful mountain road in northern Canada in a 1974 Honda Civic with broken heating, two gears and 3 cylinders still working.

so switch spec.

or switch class.

easy as that mate.

each class has 3 (1 has 2, 1 has 4) specs for a reason, you should not pick a class cause "I LIKE THIS ONE SPEC!' you should pick the class cause you atleast enjoy all three, so you have a variety. it is bad choice to lock yourself into one single spec.

imagine playing league, you say your a support player, alright so you have like 30 opt- nope you just play thresh.... alright then uhh... right...

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sometimes i do, sometimes i don't.

speaking harshly isn't wrong, it shows your displeasure with something.

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yes, actually.

i'd rather have good gameplay than tons of things to do.

if BfA still had the speed and power of legion, i'd probably be having fun right now.

idk what you mean by speed and power
but in all three of my specs right now im feeling alot of speed and power
hell back near the start of 8.1.5 i had so much speed and power i reached 180% haste at one point and nearly died i was laughing maniacally so hard as i couldn't do my rotation it was so fast.

[Doffen]

in vanilla it was auto attack bassicly, as was most classes, you had the odd spell in there, but most of your damage was auto attack.

Yes, I was writing that it must have been so much fun with one button spec like in vanilla, but it would be wrong of me saying that since I didn't spesifically play rogue then, so I didn't put it up anyway. And I quite enjoy some specs with few buttons to push, it all depends on how it flows really.

[Daedius]

I'll remember Legion as that Burn Out expansion, trying to get them reputation mounts off them Caches doing WQs... so many WQs... grinding rep for a chance of that 1% drop.

Never again!

[Gungnir]

sometimes i do, sometimes i don't.

speaking harshly isn't wrong, it shows your displeasure with something.

Never said it was wrong, it can just be done in a better way.

so switch spec.

or switch class.

easy as that mate.

each class has 3 (1 has 2, 1 has 4) specs for a reason, you should not pick a class cause "I LIKE THIS ONE SPEC!' you should pick the class cause you atleast enjoy all three, so you have a variety. it is bad choice to lock yourself into one single spec.

imagine playing league, you say your a support player, alright so you have like 30 opt- nope you just play thresh.... alright then uhh... right...

Yeah, I have tested out every single spec and class in BfA.
I've found two specs that I could be okay with playing without wanting to gouge my eyes out, but the issue with that is that I need haste levels that aren't attainable with current gear outside of procs until likely the last raid of the expansion.

Trying to find an entire CLASS that I enjoy with the current design is a fucking laugh and a half mate.

There's a reason why I am not subbed to BfA.
However, the point still stands, it doesn't matter how good the content is if there isn't a class or spec out there that you can enjoy playing it in.

[derpkitteh]

idk what you mean by speed and power
but in all three of my specs right now im feeling alot of speed and power
hell back near the start of 8.1.5 i had so much speed and power i reached 180% haste at one point and nearly died i was laughing maniacally so hard as i couldn't do my rotation it was so fast.

it's partially because the ilvl scaling is too much. it's a cancerous system that needs to be shelved.

so power progression feels bad, don't feel like i'm gaining much strength.

then GCD issues, not as much general power as legion(affliction rounding up basically every single demon in that area of the broken shore where odyn gave you a wq to kill that big brute guy).

it all comes back down to artifact power really. losing that and legendaries was a bad blow.

[Doffen]

I'll remember Legion as that Burn Out expansion, trying to get them reputation mounts off them Caches doing WQs... so many WQs... grinding rep for a chance of that 1% drop.

Never again!

400+ boxes. The last, Valajar Stormwing took 83 boxes. The joy :P

[FelPlague]

it's partially because the ilvl scaling is too much. it's a cancerous system that needs to be shelved.

so power progression feels bad, don't feel like i'm gaining much strength.

then GCD issues, not as much general power as legion(affliction rounding up basically every single demon in that area of the broken shore where odyn gave you a wq to kill that big brute guy).

it all comes back down to artifact power really. losing that and legendaries was a bad blow.

GCD issues? welcome to what casters have dealt with since vanilla, where most of our abilities have always been on the GCD
so much so with bfa launch we actuallty LOST abilities on the gcd, so we had less gcd's (soulstrike, instant demonbolt, and doggos are not on the gcd, the 2 seconds i am sorta sure, dont qoute me on that, its hard to tell sometimes)

[shoegazing]

I mean welcome to the game since its inception mate
back in vanilla balance druids went from an all around "jack of all trades" to generic spellcaster dps just within vanilla.
perfect example is they literally had a 20 point talent "increases melee weapon damage" like... wtf... that doesent even work in cat/bear as your weapon is not counted into your damage.

warlock in wotlk went from a demon controlling spec to one that BECOMES a demon

tbc made pally and shaman no longer special in the slightest. and i realy could go on.

Rogue had been very stable with well over a decade of established history before they did this shit to us. We were the least changed class prior to this fucking garbage

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I dont remember any of the worthless garbage they removed from any of the classes i play. I DO wish they hadnt ever shoved them all into specs, because that was what fucked a lot of shit sideways and should be reverted. But the removed spells? No need to bring them back

What's the difference? Why make a distinction?

Mostly what I'm talking about is stuff like poisons, Gouge, bleeds. These still exist but not for my spec. And it feels fucking terrible without them.

[TheFirstOnes]

I'll remember Legion as that Burn Out expansion, trying to get them reputation mounts off them Caches doing WQs... so many WQs... grinding rep for a chance of that 1% drop.

Never again!

Ehe? Get it? Burn out? Because...Demons...

Nevermind...

[Sinndra]

some pretty good guessing going on in this thread as to why BfA is worse than Legion. i guess on an individual basis all of these claims make sense, per player, but not for all or even most.

my opinion as to why BfA is worse? simple: 2 independent development teams.

as per my breakdown here...

Vanilla - Good
BC - Bad
Wrath - Good
Cata - Bad
MoP - Good
WoD - Bad
Legion - Good
BfA - Bad


one team gets it.. the other team falls short on almost every front. this pattern exists every single time. you might disagree with the call on BC here.. but to me, it was horrible. after BC, things get more and more clear, there are 2 separate teams designing WoW.

Wrath has a bunch of players that talk fondly of it still to this day. (some cry about it, but fewer than those that enjoy it)
Cata has a bunch that disliked it. forums complained constantly, and still look back at it badly.
MoP was enjoyed, some hated the theme.. but many didnt mind it, and the game play that came with it was enjoyed.
WoD again, was a bad expac, that ended badly and felt rushed even to get it over with.
Legion had many positives and the players again seem to think mostly positive about it.
BfA has been bad from the start.. and will end bad. the Next expac (whatever it is) will feel great, and seem to have righted all the wrongs of BfA.

i seriously believe now, that every other expac is worth playing, and the off expacs are perfect times to take a break during.

[FelPlague]

Never said it was wrong, it can just be done in a better way.



Yeah, I have tested out every single spec and class in BfA.
I've found two specs that I could be okay with playing without wanting to gouge my eyes out, but the issue with that is that I need haste levels that aren't attainable with current gear outside of procs until likely the last raid of the expansion.

Trying to find an entire CLASS that I enjoy with the current design is a fucking laugh and a half mate.

There's a reason why I am not subbed to BfA.
However, the point still stands, it doesn't matter how good the content is if there isn't a class or spec out there that you can enjoy playing it in.

what are those specs, and why do you enjoy none of the others?

if so little of the content is fun in your eyes mate, it might be time to give another game a try, as the minor changes from legion to bfa for most of the specs should not alone be enough to make you want to gouge your eyes out.
alot of the specs had abilities that just... dealt damage... so it really didnt effect the spec at all by losing them.
example-

Destrocution= just damage
demonolgy= just damage
frost dk= just damage
blood dk= ok actuallty did something
unholy dk= ok it was just damage but it did have synergies and did work with your actual normal stuff as it blew up festering rots.
havoc= literally just aoe damage
vengence= ok it actuallty did something
bally druid= just damage
feral druid= just damage, but did give combo points so eh but 3 every 1.2 mins... idk
bear druid= just damage reduction with a weak thorns
resto druid= literally just your abilites to double healing for 8 seconds


i think ya get the point.
losing the artifact did not make or break alot of the classes, people just seem to miss how overpowered some of them were, cause yes they did make us feel overpowered, as there was alot of "this ability is just 40% stronger now" in all of the tree, and most trees, only had 1-2 things MAX that effected their rotation in ANY WAY
i did an analysis with the demonolgy lock since its the one i know the most

[shoegazing]

so you rather have literally no content, then tons of content, but you dislike 1 of your specs?

What is this "content"? Something to do when I am not slaying horde? It means nothing to me compared to what they have done to the former masterpiece called Subtlety Rogue.

[TheFirstOnes]

i miss protecting my world from demons and destruction from a God that came from space, then going into this god's world, killing his avatar.

now i'm just fighting my comrades that helped me sto pthe destruction of the world for glowing stones, because we have no free will and are stuck into following retarded leadership.



but to be fair, Legion Endgame was pretty bad. After illidan killed X'era, he was just there doing some stuff. not interacting with even his fellow demon hunters. And even worse, he completely ignored the fate of his Warglaives of Azzinoth, he didn't even cared where they went, and there wasn't even a story of how he would get new glaives and why. he just showed up with some warglaives out of his ass.

And we didn't get to see Illidan V.s. Sargeras. He didn't even fought with us against Argus. Tyrion fought with us against the lich king. The aspects helped against Deathwing.

So, Legion was better than BfA in alot of ways, but it wasn't perfect either.


i hope that we are getitn all these bad stories and patches because they are building up something for the expansion finale.

"And we didn't get to see Illidan V.s. Sargeras. He didn't even fought with us against Argus. Tyrion fought with us against the lich king. The aspects helped against Deathwing."

Sargeras would rape him. Illidan is just his jailer. The Pantheon were helping us fend off against Argus, similar to how the Aspects were helping us fend off Deathwing. And besides, we're badasses. We got this.

[shoegazing]

Yes, I was writing that it must have been so much fun with one button spec like in vanilla, but it would be wrong of me saying that since I didn't spesifically play rogue then, so I didn't put it up anyway. And I quite enjoy some specs with few buttons to push, it all depends on how it flows really.

You think an entire class is defined solely by its rotation in a raid context. Heartbreaking how clueless you are.

Level 30 characters in vanilla have more buttons than 120s in BFA. And in PvP we used every single damn button.

BTW, history lesson for you. While Warlocks and Mages were spamming 1 button rotations in vanilla raids, Rogue was considered to have very deep and engaging gameplay in PvE. Pooling energy, getting attacks in during WF procs (lesser known aspect of it is that procs gave a large agility buff that lasted for 1 second only) while also not clipping MH swing timer.

[Khaza-R]

I'll remember Legion as that Burn Out expansion, trying to get them reputation mounts off them Caches doing WQs... so many WQs... grinding rep for a chance of that 1% drop.

Never again!

I think that's the theme of BfA overall.

If you were burnt out from Legion, you were going to stay burnt out in BfA since they really didn't reinvigorate the game in any meaningful way.

[Evaddon]

You're delusional, the main problem is it is to similar to Legion with no innovation to WQ or the Emissary system

A Faction "War" were we as players don't even get the full details, even playing both factions there are things we as players don't get to see or be apart of which hurts the overall story for most players, because most people don't really pay attention to the story regardless of all the hints, clues, foreshadowing that goes into it, and if they don't get smacked with the details right away its "lolbadwriting"

and how Azerite failed to grasp players in the same way as artifacts with many of the Azerite traits just being passives or RNG based.

Which as players have said, you can't stack RNG on top of RNG which most classes are nearly complete RNG at this point, we've lost so much control over our characters and their capabilities since WoD-through Legion and onto BFA where it has become a a noticeable problem for even the most casual players

Other problems are Warfronts are easy,predictable, and you can't really lose unless no one does anything (hopefully heroic fixes this), and Island Expeditions are just a zerg fest to see how fast you can get done without actually exploring the islands (which are lovely zones and highly detailed you just run by it so fast).

The content is there, the quality and care isn't!

[TheFirstOnes]

You're delusional, the main problem is it is to similar to Legion with no innovation to WQ or the Emissary system

A Faction "War" were we as players don't even get the full details, even playing both factions there are things we as players don't get to see or be apart of!

and how Azerite failed to grasp players in the same way as artifacts with many of the Azerite traits just being passives or RNG based.

Which as players have said, you can't stack RNG on top of RNG which most classes are nearly complete RNG at this point, we've lost so much control over our characters and their capabilities since WoD-through Legion and onto BFA where it has become a problem

Other problems are Warfronts are easy,predictable, and you can't really lose unless no one does anything (hopefully heroic fixes this), and Island Expeditions are just a zerg fest to see how fast you can get done.

The content is there, the quality and care isn't!

It is not similar to Legion at all. If anything, it's a massive downgrade.

[Doffen]

You think an entire class is defined by its rotation in a raid context. Heartbreaking how clueless you are.

Level 30 characters in vanilla have more buttons than 120s in BFA. And in PvP we used every single damn button.

Nice of you to be heartbroken over me. Touching really. Just as you miss sub as it was before. Sub was never fun.

No, the entire class is defined by it's gameplay and class design/fantasy. Just because you think it was better before, doesn't mean that it was. Talking about clueless.

And yes I didn't write that, because how could I really know how rogue played in vanilla when I didnt start to play one before TBC. That wouldn't be fair now would it.

Yours
BM hunter main in TBC, one button macro.

[Ashcrack]

Combination of class design and world quests for me personally. I'm 100% over doing my WQ chores at this point, easily a worse system than dailies imo.