Is 8.2. the true Endtime Nozdormu saw? Speculations on 9.0 (spoilers)

[Explorer]

So, as we were told, after 8.2 it will become clear who is the endboss of BfA. And everything points out that by the end we have Azshara dead or defeared, and N'zoth is finally free. So that is more than a clear hint on what's next.

But. Also, in the final conversation between Lor'themar, Thalyssra, Jaina etc they say that before we can join our forces against N'zoth, we've got to get rid of Sylvanas. And the events with releasing Baine, Thrall and Saurfang are clearly leading to this.

Also, we've seen Jaina's story finished up in 8.1, Azshara's endgame in 8.2, and we've heard a lot about Sylvanas' endgame and her plans to "master death".
So, I see 2 options.

One is clear and straight - we have Ny'alotha in 8.3, N'zoth as the final boss. A threat behind the scenes since Cataclysm goes off in a patch.

And Sylvanas and her schemes, all that was behind her - stays for 9.0, which will be Shadowlands expansion.
Would I be disappointed? In a way, yes. I wouldn't want to see Old Gods theme closed so hastily. On the other hand, I like the undead theme and it's very possible that we'll have Necromancer class in next expansion.

On the other hand, I see several hints. In 8.2 dragon questline we learn that Nozdormu went missing. What is if this is the actual moment of him becoming Murozond and creating the Infinite Dragonflight? Because, if not now, when?

He spoke that a world, ruined by Deatwing is a blessing compared to what he saw in the future we are coming to. Well, N'zoth is likely the cause of it. It looks like we are unable to defeat him and Murozond will try to prevent it from becoming truth by the Infinite dragonflight. And that wouldn't look impressive if all this happens in just 8.3, don't you agreee? I'd have it when we have 9.0 as Black Empire where we'll have zones of old Azeroth through time travel and stuff.


And we have death theme, that something behind making Sylvanas Warchief, something that stroke bargain with Odin. Also Helya is somewhere around and maybe Gorak'tul as well.

Let's count pros and cons for both variants.

A. N'zoth and Ny'alotha in 8.3, Sylvanas and Shadowlands expansion in 9.0.

pro: it's most straight and obvious since 8.2 ends with releasing N'zoth. Also rumors of Necromancer class fit into that variant.
cons: it's underwhelming to end all the Black Empire, N'zoth, Murozond so quickly without developement. Also, content would be too alike: we have OG and tentacles theme since Crucible and now to have it all the way to the end of BfA? And with Shadowlands expansion, it will all be themed with death-coloured stuff? I'd better have Shadowlands as Argus of this expansion.

B. Sylvanas and Shadowlands in 8.3, N'zoth and Black Empire in 9.0.

pro: that way finishes up all Warbringers' storylines, content is more versatile - death theme was cool in Drustvar, I'd enjoy see more of it now after nagas and old gods. And Black Empire allows more for versatility of content since we can be traveling after Murozond through past versions of Azeroth from the Original Black Empire to resent past.

con: it's less straightforward. Also, many would say it's repeating of SoO. But I disagree. If Shadowlands is the theme of 8.3, I don't think Sylvanas will be the endboss. It will be likely the one who is behind the scene since making her warchief. She tries to master Death, but she is too weak to handle it. So she might be either a boss in the raid, not the endboss, or a "Gul'dan" as of HFC in 6.2, with a similar role.

Either way, even if we are deprived of Black Empire expansion, which would be sad, I'd enjoy Shadowlands whether it's a patch or xpac, and Necromancer would be a good addition to the game.

And what do you think?

[Has lost its way]

He did say in his last breath.

"...All I see before is store mounts...."

[Thorbalt]

So, as we were told, after 8.2 it will become clear who is the endboss of BfA. And everything points out that by the end we have Azshara dead or defeared, and N'zoth is finally free. So that is more than a clear hint on what's next.

But. Also, in the final conversation between Lor'themar, Thalyssra, Jaina etc they say that before we can join our forces against N'zoth, we've got to get rid of Sylvanas. And the events with releasing Baine, Thrall and Saurfang are clearly leading to this.

Also, we've seen Jaina's story finished up in 8.1, Azshara's endgame in 8.2, and we've heard a lot about Sylvanas' endgame and her plans to "master death".
So, I see 2 options.

One is clear and straight - we have Ny'alotha in 8.3, N'zoth as the final boss. A threat behind the scenes since Cataclysm goes off in a patch.

And Sylvanas and her schemes, all that was behind her - stays for 9.0, which will be Shadowlands expansion.
Would I be disappointed? In a way, yes. I wouldn't want to see Old Gods theme closed so hastily. On the other hand, I like the undead theme and it's very possible that we'll have Necromancer class in next expansion.

On the other hand, I see several hints. In 8.2 dragon questline we learn that Nozdormu went missing. What is if this is the actual moment of him becoming Murozond and creating the Infinite Dragonflight? Because, if not now, when?

He spoke that a world, ruined by Deatwing is a blessing compared to what he saw in the future we are coming to. Well, N'zoth is likely the cause of it. It looks like we are unable to defeat him and Murozond will try to prevent it from becoming truth by the Infinite dragonflight. And that wouldn't look impressive if all this happens in just 8.3, don't you agreee? I'd have it when we have 9.0 as Black Empire where we'll have zones of old Azeroth through time travel and stuff.


And we have death theme, that something behind making Sylvanas Warchief, something that stroke bargain with Odin. Also Helya is somewhere around and maybe Gorak'tul as well.

Let's count pros and cons for both variants.

A. N'zoth and Ny'alotha in 8.3, Sylvanas and Shadowlands expansion in 9.0.

pro: it's most straight and obvious since 8.2 ends with releasing N'zoth. Also rumors of Necromancer class fit into that variant.
cons: it's underwhelming to end all the Black Empire, N'zoth, Murozond so quickly without developement. Also, content would be too alike: we have OG and tentacles theme since Crucible and now to have it all the way to the end of BfA? And with Shadowlands expansion, it will all be themed with death-coloured stuff? I'd better have Shadowlands as Argus of this expansion.

B. Sylvanas and Shadowlands in 8.3, N'zoth and Black Empire in 9.0.

pro: that way finishes up all Warbringers' storylines, content is more versatile - death theme was cool in Drustvar, I'd enjoy see more of it now after nagas and old gods. And Black Empire allows more for versatility of content since we can be traveling after Murozond through past versions of Azeroth from the Original Black Empire to resent past.

con: it's less straightforward. Also, many would say it's repeating of SoO. But I disagree. If Shadowlands is the theme of 8.3, I don't think Sylvanas will be the endboss. It will be likely the one who is behind the scene since making her warchief. She tries to master Death, but she is too weak to handle it. So she might be either a boss in the raid, not the endboss, or a "Gul'dan" as of HFC in 6.2, with a similar role.

Either way, even if we are deprived of Black Empire expansion, which would be sad, I'd enjoy Shadowlands whether it's a patch or xpac, and Necromancer would be a good addition to the game.

And what do you think?

I think there is a stupidly massive difference between what you WANT to happen from here on out, and what WILL actually happen from here on out. Stop spouting your fanboi wishes as fact

[Mister Cheese]

I think there is a stupidly massive difference between what you WANT to happen from here on out, and what WILL actually happen from here on out. Stop spouting your fanboi wishes as fact

Oh calm down. There's actually a ton of parallels between the End Time dungeon and what's happening in the story now. He's not the only one who's pointed this out.

[EbaumsTipster]

I think Murozond is tied to the Shadowlands based on how much Blizz has pushed that the new "Death Realm" colors are dark and blue. (Bwonsamdi, Gorak Tul, etc).

[Syegfryed]

i bet next expansion will be about dragons or dragon related before something on shadowlands, having Murozond as "big bad" or at least doing the gul'dan role.

[GreenJesus]

i bet next expansion will be about dragons or dragon related before something on shadowlands, having Murozond as "big bad" or at least doing the gul'dan role.

Blizzard effectively killing off the dragons after dragon soul was one of the worst mistakes they ever made. Why would they sap the powers away of characters that provide so much cool fantasy? Made me so mad when they did that.

[Florena]

In End Time, deathwing is dead atop wyrmrest temple. Deathwing's body was obliterated completely at the end of the Dragon Soul raid, Ergo, we cannot at present be heading into that future.

[Kuja]

Argus was so nice surprise as a patch. Would be awesome to get something like that again, a mini expansion before the next one. I'm hoping it will be old gods related, perhaps Nzoth will be freed and will give Azeroth a new look cataclysm style as the last patch and tons of new stuff to do while waiting for death and destruction to come.

[formerShandalay]

In End Time, deathwing is dead atop wyrmrest temple. Deathwing's body was obliterated completely at the end of the Dragon Soul raid, Ergo, we cannot at present be heading into that future.

The future with Deathwing at the top of Wyrmrest was the one we averted when we killed Murozond, it was the one he had believed was better than what he saw instead. What we are headed for is the one that he feared and wanted to prevent, not the one he tried to bring about.

[Jericho21]

sniiiip

And what do you think?

N'Zoth is the primordial Void Lord spooge they flung at Azeroth quite a bit back in time. The spooge infested Azeroth and became the Old Gods and their Black Empire. We've "dealth with" 2 Old Gods, so to speak, and the 3rd was just a heart. It remains to be seen (and retconned) whether there's 4 or 5 Old Gods.

To your post: I know the Void Lords are in the next expansion. Unless something dramatically changes, that's a fact you can take to the bank. Shadowlands? No. N'Zoth at the end of BfA a la Yogg'saron? Yeppers, but not to the extent of Yogg. The Black Empire will come to the forefront, soon'ish. Sylvanas? Well her 9 lives are about up. I mean, she's trying to become the next immortal Azshara by killing Alexstraza. She gonna screw it up and "go away".

The Saurfang Cutting Crew? Think of it as more of a "Oh hai, Thrall! You're still alive? Kbyethnx."

Don't sleep on Dreadlord Jaina. She's sneaky.

[Syegfryed]

Blizzard effectively killing off the dragons after dragon soul was one of the worst mistakes they ever made. Why would they sap the powers away of characters that provide so much cool fantasy? Made me so mad when they did that.

i don't think the problem was killing but castrating then, it was fucked up, people in general like dragons, its a cool theme and almost never fail

they are bringing back but it seems terrible because they will need to retcon shit or give a lame as excuse.

- - - Updated - - -

In End Time, deathwing is dead atop wyrmrest temple. Deathwing's body was obliterated completely at the end of the Dragon Soul raid, Ergo, we cannot at present be heading into that future.

i don't think this mean something because in the end of DS Nozdormu use his power so DW would be obliterated in every know timeline, and end of time was before this event who potentially changed that skeleton.

[NoiseTank13]

This is far too competent with regards to the Lore.

I'd bet a Jack-in-the-Box fish sandwich combo they don't even remember who Murozond is.

[EbaumsTipster]

This is far too competent with regards to the Lore.

I'd bet a Jack-in-the-Box fish sandwich combo they don't even remember who Murozond is.

Nah, the End Time characters being important in BFA + the dragon/Cata stuff in BFA is not an accident. There's some clear parallels to the Mists faction war and aspects (ba dum tss) of the Cata story as well.

By the way, here's what is written about Mueh'zala on the tablet in Zul'farak.

Ueetay no Mueh'zala
God of Death, Father of Sleep, Son of Time, the Night's Friend.

Ten bucks this is Bwonsamdi's boss, who sounds a lot like someone related to the Bronze Dragonflight.

[MechaCThun]

Remember, Murozond created the End Time (the one we experienced as a dungeon in Cata) which I will call the "artificial End Time" in response to the "true End Time" that he foresaw. That one he saw was infinitely (no pun intended) worse than what we experienced.

How did he phrase it? "This is a blessing we simply cannot comprehend."

So the TRUE End Time was soooooo damn bad that a desolate Azeroth void of all life was a "blessing" in comparison.

That sounds scary.

...the way the story is going with them trying to make Sylvanas the "enemy of all life" seems to be heading in the direction of the "artificial End Time" with the planet decimated.

I'm interested into what the "true End Time" really was. Black Empire rises and brings us back to the primordial ages of slavery by the Old Gods? A planet utterly engulfed in flames? A planet completed frozen over?

[Eurhetemec]

I think this is an interesting theory with a couple of problems:

1) There's no reason this has to be the end of Nozdormu/Murozond's story. You say if they did N'Zoth 8.3/4 (etc.) then 9.0 would necessarily not involve Murozond, that it would be an "end" to his storyline. That's simply not true, and there's no reason to suggest it is necessarily the case.

Nor would it necessarily be a complete end to N'Zoth and the Old Gods, but that's another discussion.

2) There hasn't been much build-up to the Shadowlands etc. Not none, sure, but not much, particularly for Alliance, and particularly in the main storylines. It would be quite surprising to have this as the Argus of this expansion, and not necessarily in an entirely good way.

However I do agree that it can't be ruled out. I think the actual major point in the favour of the theory is how much time has been spent on Sylvanas, and how her arc (such that it is) cuts across the entire expansion.

But I do think there are some major issues which people have never really resolved. A Shadowlands expansion is pretty easy to envision (and most of WoW's expansions up to now have been fairly easy to envision - none of the wackier ideas have ever been the case except, arguably, Pandaria, imho), and it would hark back to what is perhaps the best-regarded expansion - WotLK. Plus you'd have potentially two exciting villains in the form of Bolvar (who has definitely, as one would expect, gone evil-ish) and Sylvanas, both fighting you and each other and so on. And as you say, you have the Necromancer class rumours - which are probably just that, rumours - but they could be true and such a class would likely be popular. Plus it would allow for a re-working of Northrend, if they wanted that, which is a very retro place.

Anyway, the big thing I've yet to see resolved is: what would a Black Empire expansion actually look like? I've heard people toss around the term "Black Empire expansion", but I have yet to see anyone suggest what sort of zones or events or whatever we'd see in such a thing. And I admit that I'm having difficulty envisioning it. I guess it could be a "Cataclysm 2" kind of deal, but that doesn't seem like it would win a ton of friends for Blizzard.

It's also entirely possible that the next expansion will be more complicated, and that it will have both Black Empire stuff and Shadowlands stuff going on.

[Golden Yak]

I would love facing N'Zoth as a boss at the end of BFA and having it lead into a Void/Black Empire expansion next. N'Zoth could even survive Gul'dan style and return as a rematch boss encounter in the future.

[Azalar]

I would love facing N'Zoth as a boss at the end of BFA and having it lead into a Void/Black Empire expansion next. N'Zoth could even survive Gul'dan style and return as a rematch boss encounter in the future.

I kinda wish Xal'atath grows into a force greater than N'zoth even, and that she's the final boss of this hypothetical Black Empire expansion.

[Synros]

I have no idea what 8.3 is going to hold, but I'm almost 100% certain we won't be killing N'zoth. He's puppeted us from the shadows almost ever since the beginning, and there's no way in hell he's just going to be a one patch character. He'll most likely be the main force in the next xpac.

[Rorixis]

What is if this is the actual moment of him becoming Murozond and creating the Infinite Dragonflight? Because, if not now, when?

When can the timetravelling dragon transform himself, only right now surely?

No literally at any point in the past or future, he is a time travelling dragon after all.