Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Draco-Onis]

Why are guns so important to some of you people? It's so....weird.

It is not wise to dwell here this is the place where gun lovers high five each other.

[Ghostpanther]

Why are guns so important to some of you people? It's so....weird.

For millions in the US, it is about having the right to use a firearm for self defense. A great equalizer for some people who are physically weaker than their attackers.

- - - Updated - - -

It is not wise to dwell here this is the place where gun lovers high five each other.

It is also against the rules to troll in a thread.

[Ghostpanther]

Self defense against what?? that is such a lame excuse

In one breath you like to claim how the US is the greatest land of them all and all that, but in the next breath you go on about how you need guns to protect yourself as if there are gangs just waiting to break in each and every night. You live in Ohio for crying out loud wtf do you have to be scared of? Have you even ever used your gun before in a real life or death situation in your entire life?

You may consider it a lame excuse. But your opinion is nothing more than that. Like I said, millions do not share that opinion. They look at it like keeping a working smoke detector in your home active. Not likely you will ever need it to save your life, but shit happens. Also a firearm is not just for self defense against humans. A jogger in Michigan was killed by two Rotts a couple years ago. Plus we do not need excuses to exercise a Constitutional right in the US.

[Ghostpanther]

Now a firearm is akin to a smoke detector? I thought you said trolling wasn't allowed here?

And even if you did have a point, the 2nd amendment has existed for 200 years, yet you people want to keep loosening the laws on guns for this or that reason. Why do you need more if it's supposedly only to protect you and your family on the astronomically low chance that you would ever actually need it?

One guy dies in Michigan a couple of years ago so everybody needs guns? But when hundreds of people die every single year due to mishandling and the overabundance of said guns, that's just ''thoughts and prayers"?

Give me a break.

Was not trolling. A fire alarm, seat belts, etc. can be used as examples of items, tools which can help save your life. And the same Constitution rights for free speech and freedom of religion has also existed for over 200 years. Age of a right makes no difference when it comes to the validity of a right. There are tens of thousands each year dying in the US from violent attacks. But yes, the odds are very high I will never have to use my firearm in self defense and it is one of my prayers it stays that way.

[Ghostpanther]

If less people had guns the odds would be even more in your favor of never being attacked you understand. If you TRULY wanted to protect yourself and your family as you suggest, then you would be advocating for gun reform as well instead of trying to block it. The 2nd amendment should always stay intact and not be changed I agree with you, but the bar and standard of that which allows a person to own a deadly weapon needs to be raised significantly.

I currently live in Mexico. Have been for the past 4-5 years. I also have two little daughters, oldest one being just over 3 now. I am planning on moving my family back to the US here soon, but I gotta tell you, I am honestly scared shitless to do so with my little girl going into school here in the next couple years. That is a real concern that I have and I can't imagine how some parents must feel daily with that same sort of fear, especially if a mass shooting or school shooting took place in their city/county/state already.

Can you understand that? It's sad af that I feel safer in godam Mexico than I would if I moved back to the US...

The amount of violence happening in the US depends on the location and is rooted in ways not even connected to firearms. Stabbings account for thousands of deaths each year. Beatings from clubs, baseball bats, etc. happen. And if you really want to use the odds game, look at how many children in the US go to schools here each year, the number of schools and compare those numbers with the amount of school shootings and using your same logic, you should not be that concerned.

How do you feel living in Mexico ( which has much stricter gun laws ) and how does it compare in death rate from firearms to the US's?

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...ed-deaths.html

Mexico is in the top 20 countries in the World in gun related deaths. Lower then the US, but still nothing to brag about.

[Yuans]

New information released by the FBI revealed that Americans are much more likely to die from getting beaten, clubbed or stabbed to death than to be murdered using an AR-15 or any other rifle.

I read in 2015, 20 doctors were killed in USA

[Ghostpanther]

I read in 2015, 20 doctors were killed in USA

And how many died from auto accidents?

[Ghostpanther]

All of the bolded I agree with. No problem is as simple as 'cut out x and y is fixed'. It is all a complex web of factors and contributors, but the thing that is scary is that now in areas that have been traditionally free from such violence and tragedy are now finding themselves in a warzone at times because of this new 'lets go shoot up the city' craze that has been becoming more and more popular in recent years.

I daresay that I am the same as you when I say that while I appreciate the odds being low for a child to actually die in school (or my home to be invaded by thugs), that still does not temper my fear or want to try and and take as many preventive measures as I possibly can. What kind of father would I be if I didn't do that and then something did happen to my child?

And outside of my initial few months of living here I have never really felt scared at all here in Mexico, and those first months were mostly due to my preconceived notions of the country just like I'm sure you and most Americans have of it being crazy dangerous, drug cartels, and all that. The truth is I have never seen anything in all my time here that gave me cause for concern for my immediate safety. I live in a private residence and we have guards at the entrance 24/7 (all residences do and they are pretty common), and you always see police driving around so it is honestly not bad. I live in Mexicali atm and if you didn't know better you would think you were in the US (ignoring all the spanish ofc lol). Mexico honestly doesn't deserve the bad rap it gets as most of the violence reported here is akin to inner city violence in major US cities: gang on gang violence with civilian collateral damage mixed in. In Mexico if you are murdered chances are you understand why it is happening and it's not really random, be it you are involved with drugs or crime or what not, but in America it seems that you can just get whacked randomly anywhere.

As for the death rate from firearms I believe the US beats Mexico in that regard, at least in 2018 iirc.

I know we have butted heads a lot in the past Ghost, mostly over this very issue, but at the end of the day we both want the same exact thing: Safety for those we love.

I appreciate your concerns for the safety of your family. I also share this concern. We just have different opinions as to the way to deal with it. I understand the gun violence here ( it is actually on a steady decline over the past several decades ) is not going to stop when there are hundreds of millions of them out in circulation. Besides there is also my belief the police can not protect you and some people are old, handicapped or much weaker physically and need a way to help even out the odds. And as you mentioned, your place of residence has armed guards. Not many can afford that.

Yes, Mexico has a lower death rate from firearms, as I noted with my link above. But is still in the top 20 in the world in that category and this is with much stricter gun control laws.

I welcome debates where the poster is respectful and acts like a adult in doing so. So far, you fit that description. And yes, I will continue to be concerned for safety for my family and will use a firearm to help ensure that. All 3 of our children are grown and on their own. All 3 feel the same way I do about our gun rights here in the US. 2 have thier conceal carry licenses and the third is in the Army and does not need one here in Ohio.

[Software]

Stop bumping dried out threads plz.

[Ghostpanther]

Stop bumping dried out threads plz.

Stop reading a thread which upsets you. And this is the official mega thread for discussing guns or gun control related issues. You should take your concerns to the moderators.

[Ghostpanther]

Again, the violence is disproportionate because the ratio is largely cartel vs cartel territory wars and what not, you don't see the average citizen with a gun nor do you see them commiting crimes with guns as you do in the US. Between the US as a whole vs an area in Mexico where there is zero presence of cartel I would select Mexico 10 out of 10 times in terms of safety and Security.

Also I am a fan of conceal carry license as my step dad had one growing up ( and would never shut up about it lol), and I myself served in the army for over 5 years.

My main point, I guess my only point, is that while I like guns and having the right to own one, I understand that your average person in this world is a complete moron that I wouldn't trust with a wooden spoon. If you want to own a gun you should have to take several courses over gun safety among other things before you are even qualified to apply for one imo.

I disagree the average gun owner is a complete moron. I think the average gun owner is a responsible, law abiding citizen. I do agree about the safety training aspect however. And proper gun safety can easily be taught in a hour or less. Gun proficiency however, takes a lot longer. I was in the Army for 3 years and the main thing we had to work on with firearms was to be accurate. The safety part was a short common sense class.

[Svifnymr]

Again, the violence is disproportionate because the ratio is largely cartel vs cartel territory wars and what not, you don't see the average citizen with a gun nor do you see them commiting crimes with guns as you do in the US. Between the US as a whole vs an area in Mexico where there is zero presence of cartel I would select Mexico 10 out of 10 times in terms of safety and Security.

Most of the gun violence (outside of suicides) in the USA is also drug/gang related. The disparity is more in how it is covered vs what is actually happening.

Also I am a fan of conceal carry license as my step dad had one growing up ( and would never shut up about it lol), and I myself served in the army for over 5 years.

My main point, I guess my only point, is that while I like guns and having the right to own one, I understand that your average person in this world is a complete moron that I wouldn't trust with a wooden spoon. If you want to own a gun you should have to take several courses over gun safety among other things before you are even qualified to apply for one imo.

It comes to how much of a barrier to entry you want to have. Fees might not be a problem for middle class, but does that mean poor people have no right to defend themselves while living in the worst areas? Flip side of course is that most of those poor areas are where the illegal guns are stolen/ straw purchased from.

Also forgive me I misspoke, the guards here aren't armed with firearms they are armed with clubs and tazers. There are actual armed guards of course here in places like banks or those money trucks where they carry these big ass shotguns, but for residences they don't have a firearm

I mean, we have similar gated communities with unarmed guards here in the USA also. Armed guards are actually pretty rare here. In a normal day, the only armed guards I see are the Brinks armored car guards, none of the banks have obvious armed guards. I live in the county where the school shooting happened last year, and excepting that from the news you'll barely ever here of crime. Some guy killed a couple in a home invasion a couple months ago and it was big news.
Of course, there are the bad areas of Broward where shootings/ death are more common, but they are not newsworthy apparently.

A lot of it really is about perception, otherwise there wouldn't be any discussion about "assault weapons" that are such a tiny percentage of overall usage in crime, but are sooooo common in competition and sporting usage. Even leaving out rifles, they news had a hard on for threaded barrels on handguns, even though it has never contributed to anything.

Mexico gun laws aren't as strict on some levels, but it's been years since I discussed them so I don't know what's current. Permits were available, self-defense was allowed, but some calibers were deemed "military calibers" and not available. (9mm, 45, 223, some others)
It's why guns like

The El Matador series. In 38 Super since it's not 45/ 9mm.
I"m not sure how racist it is for the mexican guns to all be high polished shiny masterpieces, but that's what sold...

[Software]

Stop reading a thread which upsets you. And this is the official mega thread for discussing guns or gun control related issues. You should take your concerns to the moderators.

You are bumping it all of the time, keeping this thread on life-support. If you wouldn't be around this thread would have died years ago. You are necroing.

[Draco-Onis]

I disagree the average gun owner is a complete moron.

The average person is a complete moron so the average gun owner by default is, if that weren't the case most of the country wouldn't be swimming in debt living paycheck to paycheck.

- - - Updated - - -

You are bumping it all of the time, keeping this thread on life-support. If you wouldn't be around this thread would have died years ago. You are necroing.

lol too true his dedication is somewhat admirable.

[Ghostpanther]

The mere fact that how many children have got ahold of a gun and killed others in the past is evidence enough to say that I am correct in that regard. Are all gun owners dumb? Ofc not but very many are in fact. And I'm not talking about a quick hour that you will forget in the next, but weeks if not months of required courses. Having a deadly weapon is a great responsibility and should begin to be treated as such, not as a toy

And I'm not sure when u were in the army, but my experience could not be more different than yours. Firearm safety was always a continuing education in the military and is always preached with anything and Everything we ever did.

Almost every week we hear of a little kid shooting his siblings or friends cuz the parents can't be responsible with their guns you can't deny this.

If you feel I'm making a personal attack don't. From what I have gathered from you, while stubborn and a bit close minded at times, I also take you for a very responsible and level headed person. You are not the type of gun owner I am looking at when I make these claims and accusations for why we need gun reform.

Allow me to state again just in case somebody wants to come along and twist my words, I am for the 2nd amendment and gun ownership, I just want the bar raised for who and how one can become in possession of a firearm so that more responsible is realized.

You do realize how many people have guns here in the US? So lets take those cases you mentioned of misuse and then see what percentage those represent who the irresponsible gun owners are. Even if the figure is 50,000 per year, when there are tens of millions of owners? Then you might see your statement the average gun owner is a moron is so far off reality to be ridiculous. Of course gun ownership requires great responsibility. So does driving a automobile and many other potential deadly items we use daily.

I was in the Army when the drill Sargent could call you names and slap you aside the head and get away with it. And I do not take anyone's attacks or insults on here personally. If they get out of hand, they go on my ignore list. Because after a while it becomes tiresome seeing their childish remarks.

The laws we have for misuse of firearms could be improved. But should never be done to the degree it becomes punishing for any law abiding citizen to exercise their constitutional rights. I have always thought the ATF should never have approved of the bump stocks used on AR-15's. But I also understand why they did when the writing of the rules for such, showed no violation involved.

- - - Updated - - -

You are bumping it all of the time, keeping this thread on life-support. If you wouldn't be around this thread would have died years ago. You are necroing.

Tough shit. It is your own fault for letting it bother you. Go tell someone who cares and can do something about it. Like report the post. As long as the Moderators let me use this post to input gun control information and useful/misuse ( yes, I have posted misuse cases of firearm use here ) cases of gun use, I will keep doing it.

- - - Updated - - -

The average person is a complete moron so the average gun owner by default is, if that weren't the case most of the country wouldn't be swimming in debt living paycheck to paycheck.

- - - Updated - - -



lol too true his dedication is somewhat admirable.

Bullshit. I do not look at the average person as being a moron. There are examples of people acting irresponsible, but in no way indicates most are.

Liberty requires constant vigilance - Thomas Jefferson.

[Draco-Onis]

Bullshit. I do not look at the average person as being a moron. There are examples of people acting irresponsible, but in no way indicates most are.

Liberty requires constant vigilance - Thomas Jefferson.

You can look at other metrics they all say the same thing the average person is a moron and people who are smart often do stupid things because we are all humans. Also you are quoting the founding fathers the people who had so little faith in the average person they opted for a representative system filled with fail safes against them.

[Tasttey]

I was more thinking of just required learning and courses that last weeks if not months and the acquiring of certifications and licenses from said courses instead of financial barriers.

Then comes the matter of funding said courses. Should the person applying for said license be required to pay for it? Then it could be a financial burden on them.

[Software]

Tough shit. It is your own fault for letting it bother you. Go tell someone who cares and can do something about it.

Don't be so aggressive man, it doesn't suit you nor does it have any place here. You are keeping this thread on life-support for everyone to notice, i'm just writing it down. I'm not bothered by it, i'm surpriced by your tone though. You are acting like this thread on a random gaming forum is your life's work or something similar...

You are giving a perfect reason why people shouldn't have firearms near them. People can be explosive and sometimes can't control themselves. If i was your RL neighbore (living in the US) and you would have shown this kind of explosiveness or signs suggesting you have that personality trait then the next time i would only approach you while being armed because you can easily be armed too and that would threaten my security. That is exactly why the system in most parts of the US is rotten.

- - - Updated - - -

For millions in the US, it is about having the right to use a firearm for self defense. A great equalizer for some people who are physically weaker than their attackers.

If nobody would be armed you wouldn't have to protect yourself with a weapon. And physical strenght isn't going to protect you more, skill is.

[zenkai]

If nobody would be armed you wouldn't have to protect yourself with a weapon. And physical strenght isn't going to protect you more, skill is.

[video=youtube;lfSBZjiUCsc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfSBZjiUCsc[/]

You watch too many movies. What about all those grandma's who have fought off intruders because they were armed? I guess they should have just learned Karate. Let's say in magic pretend land that "zap" all guns disappeared, if you think people couldn't manufacture their own or use other weapons to kill you then all I can say is you lived a sheltered life.

[Ghostpanther]

Don't be so aggressive man, it doesn't suit you nor does it have any place here. You are keeping this thread on life-support for everyone to notice, i'm just writing it down. I'm not bothered by it, i'm surpriced by your tone though. You are acting like this thread on a random gaming forum is your life's work or something similar...

You are giving a perfect reason why people shouldn't have firearms near them. People can be explosive and sometimes can't control themselves. If i was your RL neighbore (living in the US) and you would have shown this kind of explosiveness or signs suggesting you have that personality trait then the next time i would only approach you while being armed because you can easily be armed too and that would threaten my security. That is exactly why the system in most parts of the US is rotten.

- - - Updated - - -




If nobody would be armed you wouldn't have to protect yourself with a weapon. And physical strenght isn't going to protect you more, skill is.

I am aggressive when it comes to defending my Constitutional right to use a firearm for self defense. Not in a threatening way or explosive way as you suggested. You only seem to want to stop this thread from ever being used, instead actually debating about gun control. Now you inject the very weak suggestion all a person has to do is learn karate or something. The old, weak and handicap, are no match for a younger, stronger attacker. Or one who is also using a weapon. Knives, clubs, etc.

However, I think some physical self defense training can be very useful. And for those who do not want to carry a firearm, there are other tools they can use. Just make sure they are legal to carry concealed. But I do get annoyed when others tell me what my choice of a self defense method should be. And do not forget the handicap, confined to wheel chairs or have other disabilities which can prevent them from physically being able defend themselves. Just offer them best of luck and prayers if they get attacked when they are alone?

I have had my conceal carry license for years and have had firearms more than likely longer than you have been alive. My rural neighborhood is made up of mostly people who are armed and practice shooting. We all are in agreement about the usefulness of having a firearm for self defense. And yeah, if you lived out here, you might get upset over hearing AR-15's being shot.