Are we heading towards an Old Gods expansion?

[Wolfrick]

Would like these idea more in the futher future... since lets Revamp Kalimdor and Eastern kingdomes making it a Grapic and lore revamp pushing the story forward showing the "Battle for Azerth" battles and wars that we Read about in the Mission table... so much lore and Interesting story to explore just waiting to be used by blizzard...

1. We need to make the Leveling good again, making the Lore make sence and giving new players a good leveling system to enjoy (Not gonna explain more since I have a very complicanted idea on that topic)

2. Then Since in Cataslym the team was 10 times smallers and the entire Azeroth Revamp was rushed... everyone zone had a half kind of work on it... now with the bigger team and Beeeing ahead of schedual, we can make a real and good Revamp that would scale the entire continents of Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdomes up to Max level making it all Max level content... just think abou it "so many quests (If you like to do them all) this way every player could choose where to level and do so again on many many alts"

3. Starting with a Azeroth Revamp, we could then Go for Outland then Northrend, then After that, It would be cool doing other stuff... its just that we need to Put the Lore in the game straight again... as it is now New players get pushed away... and New players is VERY IMPORTANT for a game to survive and give it a future.

4. Something that would be amazing would be to make it possible to only level in Azeroth "Kalimdor and eastern Kingdomes" to get to Max level, that way, everyone can choose where to level and if they have many alts or like another expansion they can leave Azeroth and level in those, Making everyone happy and not forcing anyone to do stuff they would rather not.


To me and to all of us, Choice is the very essence that drives us and that makes World of Warcraft so great, would be even better with more Choices

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Assuming we don't kill N'zoth in the last patch of BfA, it's definitely heading in that way with Shadowlands/Death mixed in. No expansion is ever only one thing. Wrath featured Yogg-saron and Old God stuff too.

Which was way lesser the presented(Although they wanted a connection to Arthas with Yogg). Honestly they can do a lot more with the Old Gods. That's not a statement of N'zoth isn't dying, that's still up in the air. Shadowlands are on the horizon(Provided it isn't a fat red herring and troll).

That's silly.
When in the past have we ever had a "faction war" expansion turn into an old-god themed one?

If we have any Lich King Shennigans, shadowlands will be part of it, it's just hard to not think that.

It's roughly around Mist that started the end of an expansion that leads directly into another.

[Gaidax]

only because of the retcons
and why would all those filler concepts you listed each get their own expansion why can't old gods get an own expansion then
also we have been fighting pawns every expansion so far until Sargeras so I don't see a problem

Because people don't like single themed expansions. That's also partially reason for all this war nonsense beating around the bush, so that you won't have to fight tentaclebois whole damn expansion.

[Astranea]

Puhlease... it's clear as day that he's biting the dust in 8.3 like Sargeras did. It's endgame for the whole Old Gods crap [...]

All in all Old Gods are not really much of a threat, they are merely minions of Void Lords, so N'zoth will be taken out in a patch and gate to Void Lords expansion will be opened.

Heck, each and every Old God so far died in one patch and I don't see why N'zoth will be so different, especially after Sargeras, so 8.3 is Nyalotha and us gutting Nzoth. The end.

I can see you really do not like it. Which is fine, totally.

Just... we really won't know until Blizzard shows us, and while every other Old God has been 'easy', there's no way to be sure this will still be the case.

Besides, even if N'zoth is defeated and Azeroth is safe *for now*, who is to say that the Void Lords could not mobilize their planetary leviathans against our world to make up for that?

I believe Star Augur Etraeus showed us in Legion what they are capable of doing, and pointed out they are far worse than the Legion:



Not just a patch, but the core of an entire expansion (with plenty of side plots, sure) could easily take place on the surface of a sentient, corrupted planet. Can we really even begin to imagine what kind of civilization the surface of a void (Black Empire?!) corrupted planet could host?

To me, it sounds like there would be PLENTY of Old Gods there... being their minions, as you say... regardless of them not being the ones we met/defeated in Azeroth. Why would Azeroth's be the only ones? And who is to say there are not more powerful ones, or that they cannot 'reincarnate' elsewere to keep serving their 'masters'?

Dunno, maybe the problem is the naming... personally, I am much more keen to call an expansion based on fighting invading Void Lords or visiting one of their corrupted worlds to repel them 'before they come closer' an 'Old Gods expansion' whereas I do not see the point in calling Cata (main plot about Deathwing and the reshaping of Azeroth despite of the reason for his corruption) or MoP (main plot about discovery of Pandaria and faction war despite of the Old Gods as deus ex machina once more) such. Sure, the Old Gods were there... it has been very long-going underlying theme... but if anything, that should point out to the fact they are important, and there's still much to do with that storyline before calling it closed. And on the other hand, we still also have had countless side-plot lines about the Titans. The Dragons, the Light, you-name-it, because in the end the wow cosmology has been defined looong time ago, and it is always the same powers moving pawns and fighting against each other in one or another way...



My point being, if Blizzard's declared main plot has to be disregarded whenever there are also any other plot elements in play, then really, we call most WoW expansions with any names we like.

So maybe, really, my OP and poll is useless, because in the end Blizzard can deliver whatever any of us wants, and all of it mixed up together in any percentages, calling it whichever name they think will sell better. ^^

p.s. that would also give the additions of void elves a little more value, really, as they've been 'thrown in' and completely abandoned so far, if not for the new corporeal body of our old friend Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire.

[MikeBogina]

unless they throw us back into space next expansion, I think it'll be a dual Scourge/Old God with some Legion updates.

They're building up death at the moment, but until we actually have a new enemy, the only ones that we have left(unless there's new development) is the Void Lords. But there's more than enough potential threats to make an expansion out of them. We have...
AU Extreme Light Draenei
Bolvar kinda rebuilding the Scourge
All the other death stuff going on
Sylvanas becoming a Goddess of destruction
Potential Old Gods coming back(C'thun/Yogg)
Remnants of the Legion

All of which can make up at most, half an expansion, but not an entire one by themselves. Only Void can really hold it's own expansion now.

[Jastall]

Still doesn´t change the fact that 8.3 will have plenty of faction war

Because you say so? If 8.2 is any precedent there's barely any war at all, Horde and Alliance team up in Nazjatar except for some lip service about keeping eyes on the other faction, you do the raid with opposing faction NPCs as allies, and the War Campaign is about the factions teaming up against Sylvanas to free Baine. I very much doubt that situation is going to change when N'zoth is freed and the rebellion against Sylvanas begins in earnest.

[Goldielocks]

I think it will be something similar to mop. So something completely new and refreshing. With good vibes and without faction war.

This isn't true. MoP was an Old Gods expansion. Nearly all of the antagonists were created or influenced by Y'Shaarj, an Old God.

[Astranea]

Because people don't like single themed expansions.

So I am assuming people mostly hated Legion because it was very single themed, and repetitive, after BC and (especially) the end of WoD.

Yet I cannot help wondering if we could be 'lead' into a Void Lords/Black Empire/Old Gods themed expansion (with Shadowlands side plot, or the two reversed, obviously, shadowland main and black empire second) through the end of BfA the same way WoD lead into Legion.

Guess I am really dumb.

[Palapop]

Tbh.... It depends how 8.2 ends and what happens in 8.3. They DID say that we will get "unexpected plot twist" during Azshara encounter.

I really dunno what to expect atm (Azsharas redemption? Sylvanas?)

And then, my prediction for 9.0 would be: (it depends how 8.3 foils)

1. Shadow-lands, death realms... Maybe even some more story about Arthas... He got quite a few remodels in past few patches.

2. (this is for what I hope for tbh)- Dragon-related expansion... New land masses (dragon isles maybe), black dragonflight back in the game, green flight "re-forms" (after death of Ysera).....

BUT WHATEVER HAPPENS IN 9.0, I WANT CLASS RE-DESIGN BACK TO MOP, WF/TF REMOVE, PVE/PVP VENDORS BACK (jp/vp and hp/cp system back) AND NO MORE F*CKING ARTIFACT SH*T-FEST GRIND!!!!!!! I played almost 0 alts since Legion and artifact power grind.

[Astranea]

This isn't true. MoP was an Old Gods expansion. Nearly all of the antagonists were created or influenced by Y'Shaarj, an Old God.

Undeniable that they were corrupted, but I thought the main theme was still faction war in uncharted territory. ^^

Guess a lot depends on how much one enjoys it, really. To me, the Old Gods recurring theme is extremely interesting. Yet, I would not call Wrath an Old Gods expansion, despite of remembering what was going on underneath Wymrest, more than I would call it a Dragon expansion, because of all of their involvement and contributions. Sure, I believe it was void powers that created the Lich King by the end of the day... just as it was corruption that created Deathwing... but to me it feels like it was an expansion about the power of Life/Nature/Dragons and that of Death/Undead mostly, as they sit at two opposite points of the cosmology chart.

If anything, the Old Gods corruption we found over and over again across many expansions makes me feel these Void Lords are a much more scary enemy than the Legion ever was, hence deserving their own expansion even more than the Legion did.

And since their minions are the Old Gods... well, I guess I cannot see us getting rid of Void Lords meddling without there being tentacle eldritch horrors, just as we could not possibly defeat Sargeras without facing the Legion with all the kinds of silly imps and bigger demons first.

One tiny last detail: let us not forget that the Curse of Flesh was the Old Gods doing... so basically, they created the dwarves and the gnomes as we know them, to make it easier for them to fall under their sway. They basically reshaped Azeroth... and then one wonders why they are so important, showing up so often in the storyline, like/with the Titans? ^^

[bas]

Because people don't like single themed expansions. That's also partially reason for all this war nonsense beating around the bush, so that you won't have to fight tentaclebois whole damn expansion.

Yeah so like you syd people won't like your single themed death expansion
If you read carefully which I suppose you didn't, I already said there never will be a single themed old gold expansion but it will have death stuff of dragon stuff or something else

Because you say so? If 8.2 is any precedent there's barely any war at all, Horde and Alliance team up in Nazjatar except for some lip service about keeping eyes on the other faction, you do the raid with opposing faction NPCs as allies, and the War Campaign is about the factions teaming up against Sylvanas to free Baine. I very much doubt that situation is going to change when N'zoth is freed and the rebellion against Sylvanas begins in earnest.

Well Sylvanas has not been taken care of so the faction war is not over yet (against the loyalists at least)

[Astranea]

1. Shadow-lands, death realms... Maybe even some more story about Arthas...

2. Dragon-related expansion... New land masses (dragon isles maybe), black dragonflight back in the game, green flight "re-forms" (after death of Ysera)...

If you look at the cosmology chart, there's actually no reason why your desired Dragons and Undead elements could not be simply combined in the same expansion.

In fact, they actually belong 'together' as opposite forces, just like Light and Void.
A new massive undead outbreak would probably require the rebirth of dragonflight to be contained... nature and life versus them, as in a way we have also seen in Wrath.

And if you think of it... we had Wrath after BC. ^^

- - - Updated - - -

I already said there never will be a single themed old gold expansion but it will have death stuff of dragon stuff or something else.

LOL, I have been reading this thread for so long, by now I am beginning to wonder if it may be a temporary Old Gods defeat, then an undeath outbreak (Shadowlands), for which the Dragonflight will require rebirth... and then finally, the enraged Void Lords and Old Gods minions will rage at us.

Just saying, because I guess I'd like to see Dragons vs. Void Lords (and their Old Gods minions).

Especially considering how much the dragons must hate the void for the corruption of Deathwing and the such.
Although I would also be scared of another getting corrupted... ^^

But then again... we did see a bit of that in Val'sharah with Legion, actually, didn't we?
Emerald Dream vs. Old Gods' filthy corrupted slumber simply makes perfect sense, too.

[Goldielocks]

Undeniable that they were corrupted, but I thought the main theme was still faction war in uncharted territory. ^^

Guess a lot depends on how much one enjoys it, really. To me, the Old Gods recurring theme is extremely interesting. Yet, I would not call Wrath an Old Gods expansion, despite of remembering what was going on underneath Wymrest, more than I would call it a Dragon expansion, because of all of their involvement and contributions. Sure, I believe it was void powers that created the Lich King by the end of the day... just as it was corruption that created Deathwing... but to me it feels like it was an expansion about the power of Life/Nature/Dragons and that of Death/Undead mostly, as they sit at two opposite points of the cosmology chart.

If anything, the Old Gods corruption we found over and over again across many expansions makes me feel these Void Lords are a much more scary enemy than the Legion ever was, hence deserving their own expansion even more than the Legion did.

And since their minions are the Old Gods... well, I guess I cannot see us getting rid of Void Lords meddling without there being tentacle eldritch horrors, just as we could not possibly defeat Sargeras without facing the Legion with all the kinds of silly imps and bigger demons first.

One tiny last detail: let us not forget that the Curse of Flesh was the Old Gods doing... so basically, they created the dwarves and the gnomes as we know them, to make it easier for them to fall under their sway. They basically reshaped Azeroth... and then one wonders why they are so important, showing up so often in the storyline, like/with the Titans? ^^

I'd argue Vanilla, TBC and Wrath were made with a different design philosophy than the rest of the expansions. Their raids weren't designed to be build up like the newer expansions have been.

[Swnem]

I would like an expansion based on Azeroth's underground, with focus on defeating the old god corruption of the world soul with the tinker class.

But, i dunno. One of the things i liked about Blizz finally making this high seas expansion is that there are no longer surefire predictions. Whayever it is, it will be surprising for the most part.

Theres theories with the dragon isles being expanded to a continent aswell. I am excited to see where we are going next. After killing Sylvanas off ofc.

[Astranea]

I'd argue Vanilla, TBC and Wrath were made with a different design philosophy than the rest of the expansions. Their raids weren't designed to be build up like the newer expansions have been.

Certainly, but you still had some very strong Dragonflight and Old Gods elements to the plot, with dungeons and even raids, and yet very few people would say it was a Dragon or Old Gods expansion because of that.

The final boss was the Lich King, after all, regardless of what may have corrupted him to start with.

Just like Deathwing was another expansion's.
And Garrosh was another's.
And... Sylvanas is expected to be the latest?

Obviously, I do see the pattern. All corrupted... in different and possibly more and more blatant ways.
And yet, they defined the expansions' main 'official' theme. ^^

I guess the point I am trying to make is, that I am not saying the Old Gods are not a recurrent theme. They certainly are, it is UNDENIABLE. I am just saying that since there are six main great powers, Light/Holy-Void/Old Gods, Fel/Legion-Arcane/Titans, Life/Nature-Death/Undead, I feel we are kinda 'doomed' to find some lore and side-plots related most of them in most of the expansions, simply because the cosmology has already been defined. Whatever may happen, whichever world or race may be involved, in the very end, it will always come down to some of these six powers either in balance or contrast with each other. Blizzard will take one declared main theme to start with in turns... and then they will always necessarily involve more of the others, too, and twist and shift the plot towards one or the other to allow the story to continue, threading the six colors together in different orders as they see fit.

But they're always the same six colors in the end.

Specifically, the void's 'job' is to corrupt and consume, as much as it is the fel's job to bring chaos, the arcane's to bring order, and so on.

To get something truly completely new... we would have to change universe/lore/game?

Whereas as things are now, we have certainly had a LOT of corruption going on, and it could be interesting to entertain the option to take the matter into our hands as we did with the other major threat (the Legion) and decide to go after the source of the problem (Old Gods/Void Lords realms) rather than wait passively and deal with one after another corrupted leaders, dragons, you-name-it.

'cause if we just keep killing one, they will just corrupt another. That's what the history of the expansions have shown us.

Killing N'Zoth and calling it done... seems really, really too easy for me.
I expect things to get much more complicated than that. In fact, if things went the opposite way as expected (us killing him as we killed all others) would it not be more interesting?

I may be wrong of course. But... well. If it was so easy to just kill them all once and for all, why on Azeroth didn't the Titans just do that?

As far as I remember, it turned out that they could not purge the Old Gods from Azeroth without destroying it. The Well of Eternity was created when an Old God was ripped out of the planet. The question being... what will truly happen if we kill the last one? Or even, *can we* really do so without damaging our world? What if removing the last one would only create another gap and make Azeroth bleed further?

If we can, well then, I guess the Titans were/are really really dumb, fallible and powerless.
And someone should find the courage to go tell Magni about that, with kind words.

[Jastall]

Well Sylvanas has not been taken care of so the faction war is not over yet (against the loyalists at least)

But again, she's probably either influenced or corrupted by N'zoth. Certainly her being obsessed with Knaifu points towards that. So that's as much about the faction war as SoO was, IE not too much and more about lolcorruption.

[Broken Fox]

I think it will be something similar to mop. So something completely new and refreshing. With good vibes and without faction war.

Nah WoW aint shit without the faction war. They need to stop half assing it and go full Warhammer already.

[SirCowdog]

It would REALLY surprise me if the next expansion wasn't named "World of Warcraft: Black Empire" or possibly "World of Warcraft: Into the Void" or something along those lines. Everything is pointing that direction.

[beanman12345]

I voted yes because that's what I want. Not sure if it'll happen or not, but I would love another old god expansion.

[dunkl]

old gods, titans, light and void are kind of boring imo.

once we actively explore their stories (instead of getting bits and pieces in spurts the way we have, primarily) and we fully understand the foundations of the cosmos, everything afterwards will feel insignificant or less meaningful. no thanks. I like sticking to the races and stories that we can appreciate, and part of the reason we can appreciate them is because somewhere way out there or somewhere deep within, we, including the living, the dead, the elements, all creation, are all linked by a mystifying presence. once we're bashed over the head with these attempts at heady concepts over a whole expansion, once they're fully realized, anything after will seem much less important.

Same as in life - we don't truly know what god is or what happens when we die, among many mysterious, and if we knew them so completely, life would be much different, probably less exciting for some.

I miss theorizing about the titans, I miss wondering what they do floating out there, making worlds, defending realities, made of stars and nebulas? made of rock? I thought that one day, when we finally met a titan, it would be our player character standing on a ledge of a very tall mountain or cliff or somewhere unknown, peering out over a sea of clouds, and from that sea of white would arise a gigantic stone structure, unrecognizable at first, then as it emerges you have to take steps back to see fully that you are staring at two enormous eyes, the size of moons, and a rocky nose the size of a mountain, and you realize you've caught your first glimpse of a face, made of stone but also with a shimmering spacial dust floating somewhere on or below the rocky surface, and the face would finally see the tiny you, and it would smile at you, having free'd or earned the right to see it. I am not satisfied or pleased at all whatsoever with how they were revealed or how we interacted with them.

A missed opportunity. No heartfelt moment, no standing on a building-sized rocky finger as a gentle stone giant/god raises you up to become eye-level with it, to study you as you study it in awe, child of azeroth, meeting one of many makers, and receiving a thank you with a smile or nod and receiving a bit of wisdom from this grand figure, through thought or by a voice both booming yet gentle, before it departs into space or phases from reality with a smile. You, forever changed. I thought that's how we'd encounter our first titan - or at least a similarly heartfelt moment. it was kind of empty and I don't care much to wonder anymore what they're up to, as I once did so very often.

They need to be selective when and how and how much is revealed to us about our game to keep the magic and wonder alive and well and the stories entertaining, informative and meaningful.