Ghetto/gangster culture is stupid

[Kraenen]

poor white culture just isn't like this, people happily admit they wanna get out

It sort of is. Have you skimmed Hillbilly Elegy? The author talks about how some poor white subcultures have degenerated into the same anti-intellectual, drug-addled, ego-obsessed mentality as urban black culture.

but rich black folks who make it in sports/music/etc will always "rep their hood" like it's a good thing.

This is made worse because it's become a racial identity to them. Same problem in Native Americans - tribal elders see education and modernizing aspects of white cultures as colonizing and overtaking their culture/demographic, and propagandize their young in the same brainwashing and keeps them down in the dirt.

[Kakylukia]

I’m talking about those who talk street and act hood. I live in New York, so they’re everywhere. If you speak proper English, you will be called a “nerd” or “loser.” It’s not cool to get good grades.

You can say they’re the product of their environment, but the born-intelligent would not be enticed by a culture that celebrates stupidity.

Their preferred form of entertainment is turning the bass beat up until it smacks the attention into their skull.

Gangster rap is so stupid. I can’t imagine pretending to be that confident and clueless.

In my days of high-school I hated my high-school because it was also not cool to get good grades. They would beat you up if you would try. Because their logic was "why are you smarter then us?" so they use force. They also had that street talk and act hood.

After getting rid of that environment and standing up for my self, becoming a software engineer, I can confirm to you that they are indeed the product of their environment. It is hard for people like that to "get out". I never actually "went in" that act but I rather did what I had to survive that period of my life which I look upon with disgust.

I don't mind their preferred form of the entertainment. Entertainment is entertainment and everyone does it as they find suitable.

However I too do not like gangster rap. I do not think it is stupid or less intelligent, it is a taste of music some people like or don't, but I do not like it because they send a message of a success in a form of corruption. Which is for a reason successful because people need sometimes that "illegal feel" to feel dangerous. But it is again a false pride that gives no constructive way of being. And people reason a lot by what they see. And you can see a lot of that trough TV.

I have friends who like that hood stuff and they are very smart people but they just find in that music "release" of not doing everything "as intended".

No one should enforce on you what you should be, you should build your own individuality and build it up. It is a hard thing to do, especially when you see how many people would either use raw force or even ban you from the forum if you just say what you think and believe it is true. Life is in unjust, but you can do everything in your power to make it right.

[sopeonaroap]

You're more a part of the problem that you claim you want to solve than you will ever admit. It isnt about left vs right. I never thought or said it was.

It is a culture problem. But it isnt about white or black culture.

it's a black culture problem. poor white/latino/asian/whatever culture doesn't cannibalize itself like this. i've been in thousands and thousands of strangers homes as a cable man back in the day and it's as clear as day what the issues are. the poorest, filthiest white people still feel the societal pressure to fit in, poor black culture doesn't have that. they feel pressure to fit in with poor black culture, it's a pull in the opposite direction. they aren't ashamed for you to see their filthy house full of 7 working age adults without jobs, they don't hide their drugs or guns or illegal shit, they feel immune to pressures from the outside world.

every other race/culture does the "let me clean up real quick" and like i mentioned the nastiest white folks, they're going to at least apologize for the roaches

it's a different world. it's full of entitlement, it lacks any shame whatsoever except when other poor black people are involved.

poor black culture makes an enemy out of everyone (in their heads) to foster that us vs them mentality and folks like you perpetuate it

- - - Updated - - -

It sort of is. Have you skimmed Hillbilly Elegy? The author talks about how some poor white subcultures have degenerated into the same anti-intellectual, drug-addled, ego-obsessed mentality as urban black culture.



This is made worse because it's become a racial identity to them. Same problem in Native Americans - tribal elders see education and modernizing aspects of white cultures as colonizing and overtaking their culture/demographic, and propagandize their young in the same brainwashing and keeps them down in the dirt.

i live around poor white culture, it's nothing alike. poor whites are pressured to not be the way they are. the trashiest white people are still pressured by family, society, someone to be better than they are. even when they're addicted to drugs they try to put up a bit of a front because society pressures them to succeed at something (and sometimes this pressure is what drives them to drugs in the first place, but that is an issue that is further down the list and less important to the majority)

my neighbors don't try to drag me down to their level, they won't bother my shit, they won't knock on my door or walk in my yard, they won't fuck with my vehicle, the ones who are trash just keep to themselves and create their own little bubble.

poor black folks want the whole block to be their bubble, misery loves company

[Elkfingers]

and reply #1 defends a young black person's right to be a gangbanger

this is why you can't discuss anything that would ever help fix poor black culture, you can't talk about how few fathers actually stick around, you can't talk about how high the STD and drug addiction rates are, you can't talk about how child welfare is second worst only to china, you can't talk about how education is ridiculed, you can't talk about how young black males are 20% more likely to commit violent crime than anyone else on earth, you can't talk about any of the issues stemming from poor black culture without being called racist

so nothing gets done and the people who stroke their dicks to their liberal ideas that help nobody in reality are the #1 thing stopping any actual change

you wanna help black people get to where they can be in this world? tell them it's not ok to abandon their family, leech off welfare, be drunk, high, etc

poor black culture is america's worst problem and everyone is scared to touch it with a 10' pole because it's career suicide. there is a MASSIVE difference in black folks who grow up in 2-parent households that value hard work and education and poor black culture. they can't even get along as well as meth heads and rich white CEOs. there is a massive divide. how they talk, dress, act, joke, etc, it's all different

educated black people wouldn't even be the same race as poor black inner city folks if not for the color of their skin (which poor black folks will happily point out makes you a cornbread nigga or uncle tom if you're too light)

Way to point to the symptoms rather than the disease.

Not only is this a candidate for some of the most patronising horseshit I've ever read, it also completely misses the point.

[Kraenen]

Way to point to the symptoms rather than the disease.

Isn't it all just symptoms if we rule out genetic/hereditary factors? Say we do, and we're left with SES/environmental factors - none of those will single-handedly, in a necessary fashion cause the negative outcomes mentioned. They're all what are sometimes called 'contributory factors' - they are responsible for, i.e. 20%, 30%, 10% of the differences in the outcomes. My point being simply there's no one disease, there's just a host of factors that influence the outcome.

[sopeonaroap]

Way to point to the symptoms rather than the disease.

Not only is this a candidate for some of the most patronising horseshit I've ever read, it also completely misses the point.

look, you folks have been trying to convince everyone the disease was the actions of white men from 150 years ago and it hasn't led to a damn bit of good. you boosted test scores, forced employers to hire unqualified minorities, etc

poor black people today are actually WORSE OFF than they were 50 years ago.

it's not a matter of you being ignorant, you'd rather change nothing and put all the blame on white america than cure the disease

the disease is poor black culture and poor black people have to fix it. nobody can fix it from the outside. it's fucking sad that the people who care the least are the ones running around calling everyone racists for discussing it.

[sopeonaroap]

Yeah your anecdotal evidence isnt going to sway me.

you don't wanna be swayed, you'd rather be wrong and maintain your beliefs. that's kind of how self righteous pricks live their whole lives.

meanwhile, everything you have your hand in is still just a pile of shit because you don't look at problems and figure out how to solve them, you just throw a filter on a picture and a few prayers later, you're 100% convinced you did your part.

meanwhile, jamal becomes a gangbanger at 15 after he quits school because it's the only way to stay alive and nobody gives a fuck. dude may be the next president in any other environment, but his peers make sure he doesn't rise above them because that would put pressure on them to do something useful and they can't have that.

[Kraenen]

the disease is poor black culture and poor black people have to fix it. nobody can fix it from the outside. it's fucking sad that the people who care the least are the ones running around calling everyone racists for discussing it.

What's the fix, though? Provide a solution, at least.

[Has lost its way]

Am I allowed to repeat myself or is that considered spam?

It isn't but the actual topic touches on a lot of sciences that you would rather cut off your hand then recognize as science so the topic won't go anywhere.

[Shefu]

You can say they’re the product of their environment, but the born-intelligent would not be enticed by a culture that celebrates stupidity.

Maybe you might have had something going if you hadn't gone full racist. Not that intelligent after all either I see.

[Elkfingers]

Isn't it all just symptoms if we rule out genetic/hereditary factors? Say we do, and we're left with SES/environmental factors - none of those will single-handedly, in a necessary fashion cause the negative outcomes mentioned. They're all what are sometimes called 'contributory factors' - they are responsible for, i.e. 20%, 30%, 10% of the differences in the outcomes.

I don't know where you're pulling these stats from. The point is that you can't just point to bad shit and go "sort that out lads" because that literally ignores any and all context.

Consider the how housing was handled post-slavery, and how that led to segregation. Consider the effect that white flight had not only on the prosperity of communities, but also on the nature of policing. Consider the effect that the use of lead in the construction of the housing in these communities had on academic achievment and the rates of violent crime. Consider the effects that both systemic and conscious racial discrimination had on the future prosperity of the community. Consider how lack of opportunity and poverty would affect the types of crime that are committed. Consider how limited access to affordable healthcare, or healthcare in general would impact on birth rates, and in turn how the relative affluence or lack thereof in a community would affect how parents behave in response to a pregnancy.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Consider all of the factors which define the context in which certain problems arise, and a clearer picture of the real causes begins to emerge. Telling people to 'just do better' can only get you so far, and I don't buy that anybody wants a miserable life any more than you do. Blaming individuals for a situation which is infinitely bigger than one person is completely fucking facile.

look, you folks have been trying to convince everyone the disease was the actions of white men from 150 years ago

Ok, first of all, you don't get to just decide what I think based on some idea of what you think people who disagree with you are like. You don't know me at all, you don't even know where I'm from, so I have no idea what the fuck you even mean by 'folks like you' given the prior two points.

Secondly, I think we can both agree with the actions of white men 150 years ago probably didn't help. Like cotton plantations aren't really my idea of giving people a boost in life. If you seriously think that history doesn't create ripples, and has no bearing on future events, then you have to be completely deluded.

[Has lost its way]

I dont want to be swayed by someone who is wrong trying to justify their beliefs.

What solutions have you proposed?

I definitely dont think I'm achieving anything by posting here. You seem to know me better than I do.

People do give a fuck. But what you're doing isnt fixing anything except reinforcing the same beliefs that cause kids to join gangs.

You dont really have a solution outside of "black people dont have any desire to improve themselves" while showing that you lack the same desire.

More jails would help along with far harsher penalties for repeat offenders. You have to treat them the same way you do as the plague. Isolate and quarantine them so they can't infect others that are at risk.

(I am talking about gang culture as whole among the poor before a mod flips out.)

[Ahlae]

I dont want to be swayed by someone who is wrong trying to justify their beliefs.

What solutions have you proposed?

I definitely dont think I'm achieving anything by posting here. You seem to know me better than I do.

People do give a fuck. But what you're doing isnt fixing anything except reinforcing the same beliefs that cause kids to join gangs.

You dont really have a solution outside of "black people dont have any desire to improve themselves" while showing that you lack the same desire.

How could he improve it when the people within it are not interested in improving in the first place? Can lead a horse to water, but can't make them drink.

[Themius]

Probably because I don't know of any metal heads who are 1) Unintelligent 2) Act ghetto and do obscene amounts of crimes and then cry dindu nuffin.

You can stop race-baiting now.

Wait so because they're rappers they're instantly not intelligent? What is "acting" ghetto to you? So is rapping about taking drugs unintelligent but screaming about taking drugs.... intelligent?

[Ahlae]

Wait so because they're rappers they're instantly not intelligent? What is "acting" ghetto to you? So is rapping about taking drugs unintelligent but screaming about taking drugs.... intelligent?

Has to do with the people doing it, and since I already stated that the people that listen to metal are more intelligent on average(Facts, btw) Than those that listen to ghetto-rap or produce it. There you go.

[Themius]

and reply #1 defends a young black person's right to be a gangbanger

this is why you can't discuss anything that would ever help fix poor black culture, you can't talk about how few fathers actually stick around, you can't talk about how high the STD and drug addiction rates are, you can't talk about how child welfare is second worst only to china, you can't talk about how education is ridiculed, you can't talk about how young black males are 20% more likely to commit violent crime than anyone else on earth, you can't talk about any of the issues stemming from poor black culture without being called racist

so nothing gets done and the people who stroke their dicks to their liberal ideas that help nobody in reality are the #1 thing stopping any actual change

you wanna help black people get to where they can be in this world? tell them it's not ok to abandon their family, leech off welfare, be drunk, high, etc

poor black culture is america's worst problem and everyone is scared to touch it with a 10' pole because it's career suicide. there is a MASSIVE difference in black folks who grow up in 2-parent households that value hard work and education and poor black culture. they can't even get along as well as meth heads and rich white CEOs. there is a massive divide. how they talk, dress, act, joke, etc, it's all different

educated black people wouldn't even be the same race as poor black inner city folks if not for the color of their skin (which poor black folks will happily point out makes you a cornbread nigga or uncle tom if you're too light)

Majority of rap music isn't glorying gangsters though... the majority of it is literally a cautionary tale about "gang" life. The only actual "big" rapper that I know of that seems to glorify gang life isn't even black but Latino.

And what do you mean "poor black culture is America's worst problem" really??? America's "worst" problem?!

[Kraenen]

I don't know where you're pulling these stats from. The point is that you can't just point to bad shit and go "sort that out lads" because that literally ignores any and all context.

I don't remember doing that or pulling stats from anywhere - they're just examples of contributory causes. The point being there's no "one cause" as if there was a disease.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Consider all of the factors which define the context in which certain problems arise, and a clearer picture of the real causes begins to emerge. Telling people to 'just do better' can only get you so far, and I don't buy that anybody wants a miserable life any more than you do. Blaming individuals for a situation which is infinitely bigger than one person is completely fucking facile.

Yeah this was my original position. There's no "disease" creating black poverty or degenerate culture. I assume you're just referring to other people's comments about blaming individuals, etc.

[Themius]

Has to do with the people doing it, and since I already stated that the people that listen to metal are more intelligent on average(Facts, btw) Than those that listen to ghetto-rap or produce it. There you go.

Facts provide them?

Last I checked a study done on music genres showed that the most successful group were those who listened to classical music followed closely behind by rap.

[Kraenen]

Majority of rap music isn't glorying gangsters though... the majority of it is literally a cautionary tale about "gang" life. The only actual "big" rapper that I know of that seems to glorify gang life isn't even black but Latino.

Really depends on your perspective. Young kids growing up might not know the difference. I mean it's the difference between taking media literally or ironically. Some people just take it literally.

And what do you mean "poor black culture is America's worst problem" really??? America's "worst" problem?!

Is there a demographic in a worse situation? (maybe native americans)

[Ahlae]

Facts provide them?

Last I checked a study done on music genres showed that the most successful group were those who listened to classical music followed closely behind by rap.

"Success"=/= intelligence, ftfy. Yeah, you've already lost this argument. You don't even know what you're talking about to begin with a debate.