Would you like Azshara to feature properly in 9.0

[Nize]

Ain't no shame in being a mid-boss though. Some of the most interesting villains have been mid-bosses. Gul'dan, Blackhand, Thunder King, Ragnaros, Yogg.

And no, after this expansion, Azshara needs to be put to rest. Any further appearances will just dilute her.

[Gloriandus]

It seems obvious (to me) that they're clearing out the major pieces and players of the old lore. Azshara is an Argus patch, we'll kill N'Zoth at the end of BfA.

Kael'thas / Illidan
Lich King
Deathwing
Gul’dan / Kil’jaeden
Burning Legion / Sargeras
Azshara / N’Zoth

Can the Void Lords fill the "ultimate villain" hole left behind? Who knows, but with the way the game story writing has been going, I'm not giddy, but rather taciturn.

[Acelius]

I honestly don't care about Azshara or her lore. Nagas are boring.

[Methodd]

Old Gods and their minions were more interesting in times where they were not the main focus of the expansion (C'thun/Yogg). Azshara isn't really well developed as a villain, even before WoW. She's just the oldest that's still alive.

[Soon-TM]

Azshara definitely needs her own expansion imo. Much like the LK or Gul'dan, she could become one of the most relatable villains ever - provided that she gets proper character development, something that Blizz seems to notoriously struggle with since Cata, at least.

But as someone already pointed, Azshara in 9.0 might lead to "Naga fatigue", so she rather should feature more prominently in 10.0 or so.

[matrix123mko]

Azshara definitely needs her own expansion imo. Much like the LK or Gul'dan, she could become one of the most relatable villains ever - provided that she gets proper character development, something that Blizz seems to notoriously struggle with since Cata, at least.

But as someone already pointed, Azshara in 9.0 might lead to "Naga fatigue", so she rather should feature more prominently in 10.0 or so.

I hope that if she dies now, she won't get resurrected in BfA because then she will get Kael'thas treatment.

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Not if she were reformed or redeemed, she would be pushing the original pre-addiction ambition and destiny of the night elves, but with all her new insights.

So nightborne would be perfect for that. They have all the old traditions.

however I don't think Azshara is the right person for that sort of thing.. if Azshara actually became that, it would be an apologetic night elf people which I wouldn't like, you'd have to make them different sufficiently to make them interesting.... and I think that would work better if a redeemed Azshara led a Naz'dorei (naga-elf) allied race, that wanted to redeem themselves, especially to the kaldorei, so really push to join them, help them, and are met with a lot of kaldorei anger, resentment, snubbery, and rejection .. but they don't give up.. determined to win them back and repay their debt.

It would be out of character for descendants of highborne to try to achieve someone's forgiveness, especially if blood elves would be much more eager to cooperate with them.

It could work very well, would be an interesting take .. you would examine a differnet side of the kaldorei in a situation of if Azshara led them again and was now good, and how that would interplay.. those who would accept, and those who would reject. Highborne shen'dralar would be nervous and likely not want to associate with them having won the trust of their kin, and not been experts on being able to discern a persons character and heart. Druids would likely be accepting because they are kind hearted forgiving types, the sentinels and wardens, and priesthood absolutely not - the illidari wouldn't care, it would be hypocritical of them, and would find the posturing ridiculous, afterall, to complete their mission, they allied with demons as well as devouring and controlling other demons … so if the naz'dorei wanna help and are useful, it's not like the night elves can be beggars..

Horde has long tradition of accepting old allies of Legion in their ranks and I am sure that only trolls would have some objections.

The priestess leadership would be two ways, if Elune agrees, they would generally be supportive, some would be of the position - we cannot afford to turn down aid nor allies, others would be - no way we can't trust them - and we could see the issue fracture the night elves... but they can use the Naz'dorei to prevent that from happening, right a compelling story of forgiveness, mending wounds etc.

Why would they wait for Elune's opinion if blood elves are really aware that any corrupted race can be redeemed.

[Whitedragon]

Honestly never cared much for her. Her powers feels really undeserved, she really hasn't done all that much past having her people summon the legion the first time, and we have fought much stronger and much smarter foes before... To me shes just another gateway villain who needs to move aside for the actual threatening foes.

My vote is I hope she gets knocked off.

[Nathasil]

Imho, the only Villain WoW ever did right was Arthas. And he was built up by WC3 a LOT. Everybody else on the "dark side" got shat on. It looks like they intend to do FemArthas right...they are at least trying. Yes, i mean Sylvanas. I'm not sure Blizzard will ever get any Villain told properly who is not some version of Arthas.

[Anoikis]

Naz'dorei, really? Regarding Azshara's background "Nazi'dorei" would be more appropriate.

[ravenmoon]

So nightborne would be perfect for that. They have all the old traditions.

As do the darnassian reformed highborne... who have the old traditions without the madness, addiction and recklessness, which if Azshara is going to be redeemed, she and her naga-elves would also have those bad traits or shown to move away from them.

It would be out of character for descendants of highborne to try to achieve someone's forgiveness, especially if blood elves would be much more eager to cooperate with them

. Keyword here for these descendants is redeemed, besides not all would be descendants, some of the original night elves would be amongst them.


Ah and you correctly point out if blood elves would be much more eager, so we make it such that in this story they wont be (yes I know they could be, but they also could not, and for this story they are not.

Horde has long tradition of accepting old allies of Legion in their ranks and I am sure that only trolls would have some objections.

indeed they do, but alliance races have been known to pardon and are often more merciful, the alliance accepted the worgen, but a story could have been written where the worgen instead ally with the forsaken, night elves accepted their highborne from the shen'dralar group, even though these highborne never joined the Legion and they could have been written to join the blood elves instead but weren't. The Sunstriders that became high elves did get accepted by the rest of the night elves, and for 3,000 years they were allies with the rest of their people and they were some of the elves from the palace...whose descendants are now high elves and void elves on the alliance. The blood elves could have joined the alliance, they certainly had more in common culturally and as victims of the scourge but instead a different story where they join the orcs who invaded them in wc3 and are far different culturally is who they ended up joining.

Why would they wait for Elune's opinion if blood elves are really aware that any corrupted race can be redeemed.

Why does anything happen? In my story proposal, Azshara after her defeat and key revelations is seeking redemption and a way to solve the crisis from afar, with the Legion and old gods plan she had failed, she reassessing everything and seems amends and a way forward...for the clearest insight it is Elune she seeks in a return to origin quest... so to answer your question why, that's just how this story goes, because we are telling this type of redemption...redemption stories dont have to always follow the orc and blood elf formular and mean they end up on the horde. If the blood elves can end up on the horde, I think the naga elves can end up with the night elven it's just how the story goes.

So to ConcludeIt is true they could sling them over to the horde and spin a different story, using the nightborne as a connection.

However I was only exploring how it would work if the kaldorei were the allies, I think that could be interesting I'm a way I outlined before...off course they would have to provide a reason why the naga wont go horde, but that is simple too, the elves on the horde also hate Azshara and her naga for their crimes, Thalyssra would reject her too.

The naga themselves have agency in this, especially if Elune plays a role in Azshara's redemption, the desire of the naz'dorei would be to help the kaldorei first and foremost as the ones who were wronged and suffered extensively from Azshara's choices, Shane might win over the high elves and void elves first...

Remember the kaldorei have a highborne order, and the alliance has Thalassians too, you might be horde and only think of the blood elves and nightborne when it comes to the kaldorei pre sundering past coming to the present, but di not forget the kaldorei themselves are the kaldorei , they remember when things were good before addiction and arrogance started the troubles, they have also reformed their highborne group, and they are in the mould of the original nobility, not to mention the alliance does have high elves and void elves.

A redeemed Azshara could take on any form, the form that is conducive to allying with the alliance andoursuing mending relationswould be a redemption that involves Elune and restores the original calibre of the Queen, and then the interesting new tale would be how they win over their kin...remember the night elves already forgave the shen'dralar when they approached free of addiction and corruption, it is not without precedence they would not ally given their very low numbers and again an urgency to secure new home, secure kalimdor, and add numbers...extra twists could be the naz'dorei undoing the Farondis curse, swaying nightborne to deflect to the kaldorei covertly ofc..,andevenmore interesting if some fear family members of some famous Darnassians were amongst them, like maybe Tyrandes parents, or Maievs relatives... would help too, as it gives various members a reason to desire accepting them, confronting their prejudices etc.

[matrix123mko]

As do the darnassian reformed highborne... who have the old traditions without the madness, addiction and recklessness, which if Azshara is going to be redeemed, she and her naga-elves would also have those bad traits or shown to move away from them.

. Keyword here for these descendants is redeemed, besides not all would be descendants, some of the original night elves would be amongst them.


Ah and you correctly point out if blood elves would be much more eager, so we make it such that in this story they wont be (yes I know they could be, but they also could not, and for this story they are not.

indeed they do, but alliance races have been known to pardon and are often more merciful, the alliance accepted the worgen, but a story could have been written where the worgen instead ally with the forsaken, night elves accepted their highborne from the shen'dralar group, even though these highborne never joined the Legion and they could have been written to join the blood elves instead but weren't. The Sunstriders that became high elves did get accepted by the rest of the night elves, and for 3,000 years they were allies with the rest of their people and they were some of the elves from the palace...whose descendants are now high elves and void elves on the alliance. The blood elves could have joined the alliance, they certainly had more in common culturally and as victims of the scourge but instead a different story where they join the orcs who invaded them in wc3 and are far different culturally is who they ended up joining.


Why does anything happen? In my story proposal, Azshara after her defeat and key revelations is seeking redemption and a way to solve the crisis from afar, with the Legion and old gods plan she had failed, she reassessing everything and seems amends and a way forward...for the clearest insight it is Elune she seeks in a return to origin quest... so to answer your question why, that's just how this story goes, because we are telling this type of redemption...redemption stories dont have to always follow the orc and blood elf formular and mean they end up on the horde. If the blood elves can end up on the horde, I think the naga elves can end up with the night elven it's just how the story goes.

So to ConcludeIt is true they could sling them over to the horde and spin a different story, using the nightborne as a connection.

However I was only exploring how it would work if the kaldorei were the allies, I think that could be interesting I'm a way I outlined before...off course they would have to provide a reason why the naga wont go horde, but that is simple too, the elves on the horde also hate Azshara and her naga for their crimes, Thalyssra would reject her too.

The naga themselves have agency in this, especially if Elune plays a role in Azshara's redemption, the desire of the naz'dorei would be to help the kaldorei first and foremost as the ones who were wronged and suffered extensively from Azshara's choices, Shane might win over the high elves and void elves first...

Remember the kaldorei have a highborne order, and the alliance has Thalassians too, you might be horde and only think of the blood elves and nightborne when it comes to the kaldorei pre sundering past coming to the present, but di not forget the kaldorei themselves are the kaldorei , they remember when things were good before addiction and arrogance started the troubles, they have also reformed their highborne group, and they are in the mould of the original nobility, not to mention the alliance does have high elves and void elves.

A redeemed Azshara could take on any form, the form that is conducive to allying with the alliance andoursuing mending relationswould be a redemption that involves Elune and restores the original calibre of the Queen, and then the interesting new tale would be how they win over their kin...remember the night elves already forgave the shen'dralar when they approached free of addiction and corruption, it is not without precedence they would not ally given their very low numbers and again an urgency to secure new home, secure kalimdor, and add numbers...extra twists could be the naz'dorei undoing the Farondis curse, swaying nightborne to deflect to the kaldorei covertly ofc..,andevenmore interesting if some fear family members of some famous Darnassians were amongst them, like maybe Tyrandes parents, or Maievs relatives... would help too, as it gives various members a reason to desire accepting them, confronting their prejudices etc.

I would still prefer story with naga in Horde, which would be slightly easier to make and more satisfying for Horde elf fans.

[ravenmoon]

I would still prefer story with naga in Horde, which would be slightly easier to make and more satisfying for Horde elf fans.

thanks for your honesty, I would prefer a naga-elf allied race on the alliance, which I think would be satisfying for alliance in particular night elf fans.

Boils down to where blizzard would want them to go, but personally I hope they go to the night elves, hope they start building up the ngiht elves, making them attrative, rather than exporting all the nice things they made for them over to the horde, leaving them un developed and continuously beat upon. I feel the best of the night elves should be with the kaldorei on the alliance - i'm okay with a slice of the night elves being on the horde in the nightborne, but not any more, and it shouldn't outshine its highborne equivalent on the alliance, match it, but not outshine it.

In contrast, I feel the best of the thalassian elves should be visible on the horde too, and even if they make high elves playable, it shouldn't be the best of the thalassian group, that should be on the horde cos the main thrust is there, its fine if the high elves get some aspect or a slice of the blood elves that is just as good.. but the most complete presentation should be on the horde and the alliance ones should not outshine them.

So naturally, I want naga related elven stuff to go alliance. but lore wise, we can make an argument for both. Before the nightborne went horde, I would have said nightborne going to alliance, and a naga elf sub-race going horde should have happened, because of the darnassians Suramar roots - that night elf group originates and is based from Suramar, all their history originates from that region no relation to the ancestors of the blood elves, however the naga had some relations to them, so I would understand that better. Bear in mind, naga is still a night elf based group etc, all of that - suramar, zin'azshari, highborne, forests, elune, well of eternity, it's all night elven - but if you were going to tie a night elven group to the high/blood elves, your best candidate would have been the naga-elf.. but since they took the nightborne horde, I don't want them to take any more over to the horde.

[CreatureLives]

I would've liked more Azshara but I'm really done with the Naga. People talk about too much green but if there is anything that has been done to death in WoW it has been the Naga.

I've had my fill of them as enemies. Either kill em all off or make em an allied race but I'm done with them as enemies after BFA.

[Nnyco]

The less elves the better.

[matrix123mko]

thanks for your honesty, I would prefer a naga-elf allied race on the alliance, which I think would be satisfying for alliance in particular night elf fans.

Boils down to where blizzard would want them to go, but personally I hope they go to the night elves, hope they start building up the ngiht elves, making them attrative, rather than exporting all the nice things they made for them over to the horde, leaving them un developed and continuously beat upon. I feel the best of the night elves should be with the kaldorei on the alliance - i'm okay with a slice of the night elves being on the horde in the nightborne, but not any more, and it shouldn't outshine its highborne equivalent on the alliance, match it, but not outshine it.

In contrast, I feel the best of the thalassian elves should be visible on the horde too, and even if they make high elves playable, it shouldn't be the best of the thalassian group, that should be on the horde cos the main thrust is there, its fine if the high elves get some aspect or a slice of the blood elves that is just as good.. but the most complete presentation should be on the horde and the alliance ones should not outshine them.

So naturally, I want naga related elven stuff to go alliance. but lore wise, we can make an argument for both. Before the nightborne went horde, I would have said nightborne going to alliance, and a naga elf sub-race going horde should have happened, because of the darnassians Suramar roots - that night elf group originates and is based from Suramar, all their history originates from that region no relation to the ancestors of the blood elves, however the naga had some relations to them, so I would understand that better. Bear in mind, naga is still a night elf based group etc, all of that - suramar, zin'azshari, highborne, forests, elune, well of eternity, it's all night elven - but if you were going to tie a night elven group to the high/blood elves, your best candidate would have been the naga-elf.. but since they took the nightborne horde, I don't want them to take any more over to the horde.

Remember that blood elves are based on night elves aswell so Horde has equal rights to naga in this matter. Also, nagas were shown in Warcraft 3 as friends to blood elves.

Also, when you say about night elves being underdeveloped, bear in mind that blood elves didn't get any major development since Pandaria. Their appearances in Legion and BfA prepatches were episodical. I feel bad for them, especially as Blizzard tries to make them look small-minded and cowardish. I know that Sunwell is important but void elves are shown to not need it and Silvermoon magisters(if not replaced by paladins) are usually portrayed as inferior to human mages. Not to mention that they were once all about taking risks for greater power and managing to reduce that risk. Now they are basically night elves with boring skin colour and light-believing paladins.

- - - Updated - - -

The less elves the better.

No, this is true about humans and orcs.

[ravenmoon]

Remember that blood elves are based on night elves aswell so Horde has equal rights to naga in this matter. Also, nagas were shown in Warcraft 3 as friends to blood elves.

yes, blood elves come from night elves, but if we conclude that all night elf stuff is blood elven too (which is not untrue) we risk blurring their identities unnecessarily. Thalssian lore is lore particular to those elves as high elves. It is quite extensive, involving Quel'thalas, Amani trolls, humans, and main warcraft history up to wc3.

None of this bears relation to night elves, so we weaken the night elves and their distinctive separation to their eastern kingdom counterparts if we just advocate them as blood elf lore. While having them with the blood elves isn't out of the blue because of the blood elven night elf roots, we have to recognise that part
is the night elven and part of that elven races set... the pre sundering and long vigil are what is night elf lore, even the faction of night elves who became high elves, is still night elven at this stage, it doesn't become high elf lore until after the highborne sunstrider elves are exiled. So the parts that are nocturnal, 10,000 years old,involved with the pre sundering civilization or the long vigil, that is all night elven lore. Satyrs are the demonic counterpart of naga, same origin, yet would you consider them blood elf lore? No they are night elven. If we had an allied race of satyr turned half demon elves like the illidari, sure we have a case for them joining the horde because of the blood elves..such is true for the shen'dralar and for any night elf faction, however, they are night elf lore and as such would always be related closer to the night elves.

This doesnt automatically guarantee they will play a role in the night elf faction, all it means is that it is night elf lore, if it goes to the blood elves, it would be night elf race or group or lore continuing with the blood elves, it isn't blood elf lore, cos everything pertaining to those elves existing as high elves, then blood elves isnt night elf related and is all their own group's lore.

Blood elf lore when they were highborne is night elf lore..it ceases to become that when the exiles found Quel'thalas and transition to high elves...their lore ceases to be connected to the Kaldorei because it has it's own separate and distinct path, different appearance, genetic changes, it's own culture, it's own religion, andnothing that happens in this new kingdom has anything to do with Kalimdor, highborne legacy, the sundering, Azshara, naga, satyr, druids, Elune, the night, the stars, the moon - non of it, all you have remaining of their kaldorei past are the things we see in highborne and night elf culture and appearance that has a similar version...some motifs, the same elven grace, beauty, affinity to magic, forestry love. It is now it's own thing with it's own events and history that is cut off from its previous world...indeed the high elves mention nothing to the humans about their origin, the night elves, Kalimdor, Azshara, the night elf empire, druidsm, - they pass on the arcane, but the high elf version, heavily regulated magical practices and the things they lost that they manage to recover o ver time.

Also, when you say about night elves being underdeveloped, bear in mind that blood elves didn't get any major development since Pandaria. Their appearances in Legion and BfA prepatches were episodical. I feel bad for them, especially as Blizzard tries to make them look small-minded and cowardish. I know that Sunwell is important but void elves are shown to not need it and Silvermoon magisters(if not replaced by paladins) are usually portrayed as inferior to human mages. Not to mention that they were once all about taking risks for greater power and managing to reduce that risk. Now they are basically night elves with boring skin colour and light-believing paladins.

Oh agreed, we should all know that as bad as the night elf treatment and portrayal has been it is not unique to them...with the exceptions of humans who are portrayed achieving and performing well beyond their racial parameters, most of the races have failed to shine in the way their opening lore described or characterized them...if you read about the intelligence, I genuity, magical mastery and ferocity of the night elves the Wc3 manual and WotA trilogy as well as wc3 painted about them...the night elven sentinels, highborne and druids in cataclsym perform in a way that just doesnt fit their description...making me really appreciate the consistency and display of characteristics Marvel and DC comics achieve when they portray their super heroes...at least we dont see a normal human carrying the blows of a being that is supposedly super strong and going to to toe, without any explanation of how he can match an orc or tauren or night elf.

And we see this sadly too much in other races, who have also gotten bad portrayals.

I think the problem lies is that blizzard in their zealousness to pump up whatever new hero or race they are pumping n, just really make them roflstomp the others without any care fo r showing the older people properly, as if all they care about right now is the shiny new toy, and they have forgotten that the old ones matter, are care about, and are not supposed to be that crap

[RobertMugabe]

Nah 9.0 should be something totally different. However I do hope that we'll see a lot of her in 8.2 at least.

I quite like her as a character, but I really dislike any kind of naga lore at this point or even any highborne stuff. Blizzard should and it seems they will end this chapter with 8.2

[matrix123mko]

yes, blood elves come from night elves, but if we conclude that all night elf stuff is blood elven too (which is not untrue) we risk blurring their identities unnecessarily. Thalssian lore is lore particular to those elves as high elves. It is quite extensive, involving Quel'thalas, Amani trolls, humans, and main warcraft history up to wc3.

None of this bears relation to night elves, so we weaken the night elves and their distinctive separation to their eastern kingdom counterparts if we just advocate them as blood elf lore. While having them with the blood elves isn't out of the blue because of the blood elven night elf roots, we have to recognise that part
is the night elven and part of that elven races set... the pre sundering and long vigil are what is night elf lore, even the faction of night elves who became high elves, is still night elven at this stage, it doesn't become high elf lore until after the highborne sunstrider elves are exiled. So the parts that are nocturnal, 10,000 years old,involved with the pre sundering civilization or the long vigil, that is all night elven lore. Satyrs are the demonic counterpart of naga, same origin, yet would you consider them blood elf lore? No they are night elven. If we had an allied race of satyr turned half demon elves like the illidari, sure we have a case for them joining the horde because of the blood elves..such is true for the shen'dralar and for any night elf faction, however, they are night elf lore and as such would always be related closer to the night elves.

This doesnt automatically guarantee they will play a role in the night elf faction, all it means is that it is night elf lore, if it goes to the blood elves, it would be night elf race or group or lore continuing with the blood elves, it isn't blood elf lore, cos everything pertaining to those elves existing as high elves, then blood elves isnt night elf related and is all their own group's lore.

Blood elf lore when they were highborne is night elf lore..it ceases to become that when the exiles found Quel'thalas and transition to high elves...their lore ceases to be connected to the Kaldorei because it has it's own separate and distinct path, different appearance, genetic changes, it's own culture, it's own religion, andnothing that happens in this new kingdom has anything to do with Kalimdor, highborne legacy, the sundering, Azshara, naga, satyr, druids, Elune, the night, the stars, the moon - non of it, all you have remaining of their kaldorei past are the things we see in highborne and night elf culture and appearance that has a similar version...some motifs, the same elven grace, beauty, affinity to magic, forestry love. It is now it's own thing with it's own events and history that is cut off from its previous world...indeed the high elves mention nothing to the humans about their origin, the night elves, Kalimdor, Azshara, the night elf empire, druidsm, - they pass on the arcane, but the high elf version, heavily regulated magical practices and the things they lost that they manage to recover o ver time.

So you deny blood elves their heritage just because of their evolution? Night elves changed very much aswell. They rejected the arcane until Cataclysm and they started to live in forests. Their appearance didn't change, but their architecture and armor designs did.

Also, they have their own, separate part of story too. After the Sundering they had war of the shifting sands, war of the satyr, creation of world trees and maybe some more that I don't remember. You can't deny elves their common heritage.
Also, I wouldn't say that blood elves are unique with their lack of faith in Elune. Nightborne and naga don't worship her too. I think even original Highborne didn't show any hint of worshipping Elune. I suppose Elune had more to do with common folk, although I am aware that calling her priestesses common isn't perfect word.

Oh agreed, we should all know that as bad as the night elf treatment and portrayal has been it is not unique to them...with the exceptions of humans who are portrayed achieving and performing well beyond their racial parameters, most of the races have failed to shine in the way their opening lore described or characterized them...if you read about the intelligence, I genuity, magical mastery and ferocity of the night elves the Wc3 manual and WotA trilogy as well as wc3 painted about them...the night elven sentinels, highborne and druids in cataclsym perform in a way that just doesnt fit their description...making me really appreciate the consistency and display of characteristics Marvel and DC comics achieve when they portray their super heroes...at least we dont see a normal human carrying the blows of a being that is supposedly super strong and going to to toe, without any explanation of how he can match an orc or tauren or night elf.

And we see this sadly too much in other races, who have also gotten bad portrayals.

I think the problem lies is that blizzard in their zealousness to pump up whatever new hero or race they are pumping n, just really make them roflstomp the others without any care fo r showing the older people properly, as if all they care about right now is the shiny new toy, and they have forgotten that the old ones matter, are care about, and are not supposed to be that crap

This is really one of the main problems of WoW lore. If they only cared about rules they set themselves. Draenei should really feel like oldest race in universe.

[ravenmoon]

So you deny blood elves their heritage just because of their evolution? Night elves changed very much aswell. They rejected the arcane until Cataclysm and they started to live in forests. Their appearance didn't change, but their architecture and armor designs did.

Not at all, no rejection here, they are all elves remember, they are much more connected than they are not...just highlighting all the stuff that pertains to the night elves is night elven remember. So it can never be that blood elves have more right to it over night elves. They have a right to it off course, it is just 1 degree removed from it than it is for the remaining kaldorei.

And remember not to over play the changes to the playable kaldorei in the long vigil...they are still kaldorei, even with their civilization destroyed and the practice of arcane magic being banned. Remember the arcane itself was still very much a part via the Well of Eternity and Moonwells..and they did not abandon it, and they banned, not abandoned arcane practice either ( note the difference), banned it to stop the Legion returning. Isolation, destroyed civilization, arcane practice were things they did to fulfil their long vigil cause.

These things did not make them any more or any less night elven, they just adjusted to life with their restriction of no arcane practice which results in no civilization and the cause necessitated isolation. As soon as the long vigil ends, all of these things return.

They come out of isolation, they start building cities, arcane magic returns, but all the other kaldorei things are still there, Elune, nocturnal, moon and star gazing and fixated, still incredibly talented with the arcane though that group hadn't used it, as well as a lot of things the high elves turned completely away from and changed.

Let's not also forget the other night elven groups like the nightborne, moonguard, shen'dralar who didnt put away arcane practices.

Practice of the arcane is not the only defining feature of the night elves, just because the Darnassians felt they had to put it out of their lives for a season doesnt mean their practicing era was any less theirs or they somehow lose a right to it...and what about the other night elven societies that didnt stop the arcane practices? Are they not night elven too, are they any more or less because the druidic and priesthood were absent in them for that era too? They may not share the long vigil history of the Darnassians but they are not any less night elven because of it.

The night elves of the long vigil still kept the Elune and druidic night elven ways of the pre sundering era, the Moonguard, Shen'dralar, nightborne still kept the arcane ways of the night elves from the pre sundering era - the high elved developed a new arcane culture, new religion, new everything for elves, they kept nothing of the kaldorei culture arcane, religion or forestry..they developed new versions of each.

Hence why they are 1 degree of separation removed

Also, they have their own, separate part of story too. After the Sundering they had war of the shifting sands, war of the satyr, creation of world trees and maybe some more that I don't remember. You can't deny elves their common heritage.

you are right, I cant... but I hope you can see that I am not doing so, just stressing that this part of their lore is night elven and that it isnt any less so to the Darnassians because of their banning of arcane practice during the long vigil.

Also, I wouldn't say that blood elves are unique with their lack of faith in Elune. Nightborne and naga don't worship her too. I think even original Highborne didn't show any hint of worshipping Elune. I suppose Elune had more to do with common folk, although I am aware that calling her priestesses common isn't perfect word.

I would agree that blood elves are not unique for their lack of knowing Elune, but so were the shen'dralar, nightborne and possibly Moonguard till recently, as mentioned above, it's not one thing that defines them as night elves, it's a combination.. those who continue on and are part of that original pre sundering culture set which spans the arcane, elune and a Cenarius led druidsm in addition to nocturnal, elven, purple skinned, glowy silver eyes with the odd rare golden or emerald connected to that long ago night elf era, and are still in thst for or very close to if and those that arose because of it...

This is really one of the main problems of WoW lore. If they only cared about rules they set themselves. Draenei should really feel like oldest race in universe.

So true, and this is so possible

[matrix123mko]

And remember not to over play the changes to the playable kaldorei in the long vigil...they are still kaldorei, even with their civilization destroyed and the practice of arcane magic being banned. Remember the arcane itself was still very much a part via the Well of Eternity and Moonwells..and they did not abandon it, and they banned, not abandoned arcane practice either ( note the difference), banned it to stop the Legion returning. Isolation, destroyed civilization, arcane practice were things they did to fulfil their long vigil cause.

I wouldn't call adding arcane essence to the water arcane practice. That said, priestesses of Elune kept arcane secrets in their libraries. However, according to Vestia Moonspear called her fellow priestesses ignorant, hinting at them simply forgetting to read ancient books or even forbidding them.

They come out of isolation, they start building cities, arcane magic returns, but all the other kaldorei things are still there, Elune, nocturnal, moon and star gazing and fixated, still incredibly talented with the arcane though that group hadn't used it, as well as a lot of things the high elves turned completely away from and changed.

Stargazing is still important in high elf society, as we can see from their observatory in Magisters' Terrace. Moreover, Nightborne too have forgotten to sleep at day because they couldn't recognise what hour is it. As for naga, we can't really see whether they are diurnal or nocturnal because they live underwater.

Practice of the arcane is not the only defining feature of the night elves, just because the Darnassians felt they had to put it out of their lives for a season doesnt mean their practicing era was any less theirs or they somehow lose a right to it...and what about the other night elven societies that didnt stop the arcane practices? Are they not night elven too, are they any more or less because the druidic and priesthood were absent in them for that era too? They may not share the long vigil history of the Darnassians but they are not any less night elven because of it.

Arcane is pure definition of elf and reason of their very existence. Magic addiction is seen in every group aside from night elves, but they feed on moonwells, so it isn't a stretch that they are addicted aswell. However, Darnassians are the only group seen not to practice arcane. Elune, at the other hand was once an important part of ancient Kal'dorei empire but it was inherited only by Darnassians. As for druidism, it wasn't a part of Kal'dorei Empire as Malfurion was the first druid on Azeroth.

The night elves of the long vigil still kept the Elune and druidic night elven ways of the pre sundering era, the Moonguard, Shen'dralar, nightborne still kept the arcane ways of the night elves from the pre sundering era - the high elved developed a new arcane culture, new religion, new everything for elves, they kept nothing of the kaldorei culture arcane, religion or forestry..they developed new versions of each.

Not really, blood elves have the same titles: magister, grand magister, arcanist, astromancer, etc. Their forestry is very similar to that of Azshara, they transform the environment to one they like.

I would agree that blood elves are not unique for their lack of knowing Elune, but so were the shen'dralar, nightborne and possibly Moonguard till recently, as mentioned above, it's not one thing that defines them as night elves, it's a combination.. those who continue on and are part of that original pre sundering culture set which spans the arcane, elune and a Cenarius led druidsm in addition to nocturnal, elven, purple skinned, glowy silver eyes with the odd rare golden or emerald connected to that long ago night elf era, and are still in thst for or very close to if and those that arose because of it...

As I said, druidism isn't as important as you think. Also, isn't it racist to exclude Thalassians because of their skin color?