Low on content - and idea to solve it.

[kaminaris]

I'm sure you worked hard on your idea and I'm sure it'd be fun but your suggestion for lack of content is to introduce new content.

Truly a fascinating premise.

Blizzards issue isn't lack of ideas it's really the fact that it takes so long to turn it around and the content they provide gets old fast and fizzles out well before they are ready to release the new content.

It is puzzling why it takes them to implement features so long. Just as if they had a good idea (warfronts/islands) and cut them in the middle which makes them just boring and halfassed.

But maybe this is it? They are trying to be unique on every aspect while in reality... If they did reuse old assets maybe we could have gotten more polished features.

Because honestly... I'd rather have old models, old buildings old stuff WITH fun mechanics, than new shiny looks with shit replayability.

Like for example with my idea of scenario

Reusing Slices of old world as maps (there are many fascinating places that are basically begging to be reused)

8 buttons
3 to command sidekicks
5 special abilities that rotate each week (or even each run) LIKE:

1. Glacial Ray from Jaina:


2. Burning Rush from Soulbound Goliath waycrest mannor (when you move them to fire):
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=260547/burning-brush

3. Transfusion from priestess Alun'za (Atal Dazar) rays that suck enemies HP. - A bit more defensive cooldown.


4. Sweeping Scythe from argus the unmaker - Frontal cleave with nice visuals.

5. Some defensive boss ability (can't really take one on the top of my head)

I would be so thrilled to use boss abilities in this scenario.

TL;DR reusing assets to cut development time BUT providing a polished result is imo much better than trying to implement something new each time and delivering half-assed solution.

[Lei]

Warfront are instanced GROUP content and on a relatively long cooldown. islands are instanced GROUP CONTENT and fairly unrewarding. These features should have come separetely, and only as aside activity, not as a flagship feature for the expansion. Everything is fucking instanced and group content.

What is lacking is the OUTDOOR end game content imo. So open world, non instanced, immersive, satisfying, everyday, SOLO activity that is rewarding, where the player can set clear goals. That is what's missing imo. (thanks to world quests systems)

[Zyky]

You just couldn't be more wrong. Artifacts did nothing for specs. They just had one additional button to press, rest of traits were uber boring. Azerite in this regard is miles ahead as it really changes rotations.

Legion DID have a lot more content BUT only if you compare full legion to current BfA state. If you compare 7.1.5 to 8.1.5 turns out BfA has more content (not that it is enjoyable)

Let me brake down your, clearly ignorant, reply.

You just couldn't be more wrong. Artifacts did nothing for specs.

If you truly believe that Artifacts did nothing for spec identity then you're just plain ignorant.

They just had one additional button to press, rest of traits were uber boring.

And yet, it was actually fun earning the points for the artifacts(widely accepted fact because it was similar to old talent trees) until you reached the .5% damage trait and the Concordance trait. It slowly actually made you feel more powerful whereas the Heart doesn't make you feel stronger on its own.

Azerite in this regard is miles ahead as it really changes rotations.

Azerite is significantly more boring than Artifacts, people actually hate Azerite for good reason, it doesn't "fill in the gaps" as Blizzard kept feeding the players during all of beta where it wasn't even testable. It doesn't alter rotations, it didn't really do anything other than add bland passives that don't effect how and when you're hitting abilities. Moving into 8.2, it's slightly better, but still awful coupled with the Heart that doesn't add any spec or class identity. People are leaving the game and the majority of it is because classes aren't fun and they don't feel unique at all. At least Artifacts + Legiondaries made classes feel different, offered options for AoE/ST fights where you just had to swap around a couple Legiondaries, now to change specs or change traits(which is the comparison to Legiondaries) you have to be in a capital and spend money to swap the traits around, this doesn't offer dynamic gameplay, it doesn't freely allow choice or change in the middle of a raid/dungeon, it just limits you and it further adds to a class/spec feeling awful.

Legion DID have a lot more content BUT only if you compare full legion to current BfA state. If you compare 7.1.5 to 8.1.5 turns out BfA has more content (not that it is enjoyable)

As I said in my original post, BFA has more content on a patch to patch basis thusfar, the content is literally the exact same as Legion content, except more of it and new content on top of it. Name one thing of content that was in Legion's 7.1, 7.1.5, or 7.2 that wasn't in 8.1, 8.1.5, or 8.2. They're providing more content overall, the problem is class and spec development being absolute garbage, them refusing to listen to the playerbase, and then going on to say that any further class fixes would have to wait until the next expansion. BFA is shaping out to be worse than Warlords, even though it has significantly more content, at least Warlords had enjoyable spec development which made the game enjoyable. BFA's, lack of, class design is awful and feels dreadful. And the problem is only going to get worse the longer the insist that class development is "fine".

[kaminaris]

If you truly believe that Artifacts did nothing for spec identity then you're just plain ignorant.

I do not need to believe anything. I had all artifacts maxed out, all specs existing in the game. I did implement rotations for them for the entire legion. (Well except for healer ones). There was nothing interesting in artifacts that just couldn't be changed in base spell it affected. Instead of having traits +X% of damage for some spell, that specific spell could have been buffed. Instead of cooldown reducing, they might as well reduce base cooldown of spell.

And yet, it was actually fun earning the points for the artifacts(widely accepted fact because it was similar to old talent trees) until you reached the .5% damage trait and the Concordance trait. It slowly actually made you feel more powerful whereas the Heart doesn't make you feel stronger on its own.

And made you farm boring world quests or doing "free MoS boosts" because farming AP was way better than getting better gear. No it wasn't fun.

Azerite is significantly more boring than Artifacts, people actually hate Azerite for good reason, it doesn't "fill in the gaps"

And neither does Artifact. Just because it buffs spells or shorten cooldowns doesn't mean it "fill in the gaps". Legendaries did fill the gaps, they were converted to talents.

It doesn't alter rotations, it didn't really do anything other than add bland passives that don't effect how and when you're hitting abilities. Moving into 8.2, it's slightly better, but still awful coupled with the Heart that doesn't add any spec or class identity.

It affects rotations a lot more than artifact ever did.
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...rofiles/Tier23
Now search for "azerite" in few of the simc profiles. I hand tested all DPS and most tank ones. They DO affect rotation.

People are leaving the game and the majority of it is because classes aren't fun and they don't feel unique at all. At least Artifacts + Legiondaries made classes feel different, offered options for AoE/ST fights where you just had to swap around a couple Legiondaries, now to change specs or change traits(which is the comparison to Legiondaries) you have to be in a capital and spend money to swap the traits around, this doesn't offer dynamic gameplay, it doesn't freely allow choice or change in the middle of a raid/dungeon, it just limits you and it further adds to a class/spec feeling awful.

People are leaving the game because there is nothing to do. They are just burned out after playing for X years.
Artifact didn't do shit. It was Legendaries which altered rotations but their acquisition was absolutely horrible.
And no, classes doesn't feel much different now. Overall quality stayed the same, some specs were fixed, some were broken as usual.
Also now you still change azerite traits depending whenever you go ST or AOE.

the problem is class and spec development being absolute garbage, them refusing to listen to the playerbase, and then going on to say that any further class fixes would have to wait until the next expansion.

No wonder they don't listen because people have no damn clue what are they talking about. Classes feel more or less the same as Legion.

BFA is shaping out to be worse than Warlords, even though it has significantly more content, at least Warlords had enjoyable spec development which made the game enjoyable. BFA's, lack of, class design is awful and feels dreadful. And the problem is only going to get worse the longer the insist that class development is "fine".

Again, you have no clue what are you talking about. Had all classes back in WoD. Played few alts on heroic raid level back then and one on Mythic (cutting edge).
Personally spent hours on training dummies for each spec each content patch that does change rotation. Overall quality stayed the same (~7/10)

[clevin]

The game has a fuckton of content. It's just not particularly fun to play because:
a) base gameplay suffers
b) there is little challenging content for what seems to be a majority of players, that being players who prefer mostly solo activities
c) extremely generous reward systems which mean that after a short while, the content that does exist is no longer particularly rewarding

They can evidently fix a) and c) because a) has rarely been a serious problem in WoW and we have had Legion very recently whose reward system kept people doing content forever.
b) is a much tougher cookie. How do you provide challenging overworld and solo content without fucking up classes and without disenfranchising a large number of players who are REALLY bad at this game? My suggestion over the past year has been to create a mode similar to war mode (let's call it Heroic Mode) that gives you a few additional abilities tailored to balance solo weakness for classes (and maybe bodyguards as well) and when you turn it on, the world scales to your ilvl and mobs become much harder (give them more abilities and maybe a bit of the new AI).

- - - Updated - - -

B) isn't hard, they just need to focus on it. The design simply has to realize that many of us play either solo or with a handful of friends for a lot of the time even if we DO raid at other times. Solo players will always run into a limitation but you could create challenges in the world that weren't super-easy or hard. Farm rare recipes in elite areas, do puzzle stuff, etc. Not all of these will appeal to all solo players but if you do enough of them with enough variety you'll give solo folk some new stuff.

BUT... I also really have no reason to play with a friend or two when they log on. Say I'm doing a WQ and my friend logs on. What content can we go do that really benefits from being 2 or more people? Warfronts? Sure, but I can do those solo. Islands? Same and... /bored. 5 mans? Well, now we need 3 other people and unless we're talking under Mythic, I need to find people either manually or deal with PUGs. The fact is that if one or two other friends login there's nothing to incentivize us to group up and go do a few things. Sure, we can do WQ stuff, but that's the same content I can solo. There's no new small group content being released.

Oh and... it's the SAME 5 mans we have at launch. Nothing new. Not for two years. Raiders get new instances. Players who like 5 mans... don't. Nada. So, for small group play, how about scenarios and 5 mans? How about missions that appear in Warfronts if you had queued for the warfront as a group of 2-5? What about elite WQs that spawn irregularly and only if there are 2 or more of you in a group and which offer better rewards or a chance at a rare mount etc?

[Zyky]

Ignorant slurs

I'm just going to ignore you at this point because you actually have zero clue the garbage you're spouting, you're making shit up and simply disagreeing with facts and the opinions of the majority of the playerbase. So enjoy being ignorant(also might want to work on your English).

[rrayy]

This would actually be amazing. Lift up all the old content to the current level and adjust balancing. Also bring back old set boni.

NO it would not. Progression would be dead and the game would die after everyone quiits. It would be a VERY bad idea. Even Blizzard understand it would be a very bad idea.

[kaminaris]

I'm just going to ignore you at this point because you actually have zero clue the garbage you're spouting, you're making shit up and simply disagreeing with facts and the opinions of the majority of the playerbase. So enjoy being ignorant(also might want to work on your English).

Then show me your 12 classes. Show me your 36 mage tower appearances, cutting edges, logs from at least single raid tier where you came to 95%+.
Because I can, actually you can look up my chars on raider.io and then achievements on simple armory.

Most of the garbage comes from people like you. Who has no clue about even a half of classes and are sprouting nonsense every single expansion.

When MoP came out- MOP IS SHIT, CATA was actually good
When WoD came out - WOD IS SHIT, MoP was best expansion ever
When Legion came out - LEGION IS SHIT, WoD was actually decent
When Bfa came out - BFA IS SHIT, Legion was great expansion

This is laughable.

[Sansnom]

Because it can be compared to real world. Cleaning the same room over and over again will get boring to vast majority pretty quick.

It would be. The same would also applies to other games. Not just WoW. They are repeating because they want loot rewards. They find that part of the game entertaining and worth their time.

Grinding, repeating, is a fundamental part of an MMO because they need to keep players interested and playing. Ideally they would release new lasting content on a regular basis but there is a limit to how fast they can release versus how fast people consumes.

I have been playing on PvP server the whole time because I literally cannot play on another server. Been killed maybe 3 times in my entire time of play. You really believe that on pvp servers the scums camping on low levels are even close to significant portion of playerbase? Please...

Please stay on the subject. My post was using PvP as example in response to yours. I will repeat one more time for your benefit. You said people doing things with no challenge is not fun. I pointed out people on PvP servers camps low level characters and they find it fun.

[Weeps]

I am so bored with WoW that I've actually restarted pet battling, lol.

The last time I did that was in WoD...

There is an overwhelming amount of pets and achievements that I have to work on.

I'm always surprised by what pets I've already leveled to 25, "Oh wow, I leveled these bad boys already? Sweet!"

But then I see the other achievements like kill all trainers with beasts only, etc... ooo boy, I got my work cut out ahead of me.

[kaminaris]

Please stay on the subject. My post was using PvP as example in response to yours. I will repeat one more time for your benefit. You said people doing things with no challenge is not fun. I pointed out people on PvP servers camps low level characters and they find it fun.

No I did not say that, read again my post.

Camping low levels on pvp does have a sense of danger. You never know if that dude is not gonna relog on his main and destroy you - happens quite a lot, the more you kill low levels the more likely people are gonna come with friends geared to teeth.

Measurement of fun is quite simple, are you willing to do certain activity if there would be no reward at all (except for achievement) ?

Would you be willing to do island expeditions more than couple of times without ANY reward? Warfront? Dungeons? Raids? World Quests? Mage tower? Whitered army scenario? Chromie? Battle pets? Arenas? Battleground? etc.

For me the answer to all these questions are only chromie, withered, mage tower, battle pets, raids and dungeons.

[GreenJesus]

I am so bored with WoW that I've actually restarted pet battling, lol.

The last time I did that was in WoD...

There is an overwhelming amount of pets and achievements that I have to work on.

I'm always surprised by what pets I've already leveled to 25, "Oh wow, I leveled these bad boys already? Sweet!"

But then I see the other achievements like kill all trainers with beasts only, etc... ooo boy, I got my work cut out ahead of me.

You do know that there are other games out there and you could even play this game called "Pokémon" that has a much more in depth pet battling system with story and content? Why force yourself to do pet battles just so you can say "I'm logged in to WoW."

[Guardian Bob]

No you don't know what the problem is. I've been playing since MoP.

So what. I've been playing since Vanilla. You started playing when the game sucked which is technically Cata, but MoP was also sucking.

Been mythic (heroic back then) raider and have most of Cutting Edges since then (except Blackrock foundry and Uldir).

Same here.

I am also addon author - MaxDps with about 3 milion downloads.

And? Nice addon but that doesn't mean you know what it takes to make an entertaining game.

Been trying a lof of the content this game has to offer. Raids/Dungeons/PvP/BattlePets/Lore Master/Seasonal Events/Solo Scenarios and I have accomplished a LOT in that time. Every single patch, once Im done with content, im out until next patch arrives. I have all classes, played all specs (have all 36 mage tower artifact appearances). Have done 95% of seasonal events. All older raids, all older dungeons. All quests up till MoP (I think i just miss MoP loremaster).

Long story short - been trying everything in this game excluding RP. Still manage to plow thru content fast enough to get bored midway content patches.

If you've played Classic and TBC you would see when I say modern retail WoW is all about skipping content. WOTLK was kinda the in-between expansion where it wasn't as good as people remember. The problem isn't there's no content but there's no content worth doing. BattlePets for example I don't consider real content, just a time sink.

It is your opinion, I do enjoy current version of WoW except for general lack of content. Mostly solo scenarios are missing.

You enjoy it but clearly most people don't. The obvious lack of players is obvious.

3. Nope, this was already explained multiple times. Talent trees were disaster.
4. Nope, it would only kill wow.
5. Oh god no, this would kill wow even faster.
6. Hell no, boring uninspired weapon with generic "add +x% damage to some skill" was in no way fun. Plus damn grind.

You can't kill that which does not have a life. Most of my ideas has already existed at certain points of the game where it was more popular. So it makes sense to copy them. The legendary weapons maybe uninspired but they worked to a degree. The developers could add a special mechanic to the weapon that would make it unique, that doesn't involve balance as much. The devs today are too focused on balance and that tends to ruin the fun of the game.

[crono14]

. It is because it lacks fun content.

Wrong, my class is utterly boring and shitty to play as are most classes. This also means gameplay experience is also terrible and no amount of content they can possibly add will be fun while I am utterly bored and not having fun with gameplay. Gameplay > story or any other aspect of any game. If gameplay sucks, the game is dead.

[kaminaris]

So what. I've been playing since Vanilla. You started playing when the game sucked which is technically Cata, but MoP was also sucking.

Same here.

And? Nice addon but that doesn't mean you know what it takes to make an entertaining game.

I think you completely missed the point. That was about knowing all classes and specializations pretty well. Because that dude said class design sucks. And well, I've been playing all specializations for few years and they indeed suck. But no more than in previous expansions.

If you've played Classic and TBC you would see when I say modern retail WoW is all about skipping content. WOTLK was kinda the in-between expansion where it wasn't as good as people remember. The problem isn't there's no content but there's no content worth doing. BattlePets for example I don't consider real content, just a time sink.

You enjoy it but clearly most people don't. The obvious lack of players is obvious.


You can't kill that which does not have a life. Most of my ideas has already existed at certain points of the game where it was more popular. So it makes sense to copy them. The legendary weapons maybe uninspired but they worked to a degree. The developers could add a special mechanic to the weapon that would make it unique, that doesn't involve balance as much. The devs today are too focused on balance and that tends to ruin the fun of the game.

Skipping the content that became irrelevant. There is no content that will last forever. Forcing returning player to do old shit before they will be able to enjoy new features is straight way to kill the game.

And since this is MMO means you can't (as returning player) ex. go solo to uldir. You need to get 9-29 other people to do it with your. Which boils down to:
1. Playing with pug - which people tend to avoid.
2. Asking your friends who stayed in the game to help you do a content they no longer want to do.

And game is dying because core concepts never changed. Lets get real, its not because any of the dumb reasons people ever suggested. Its because no matter how many "contents" they will throw at us. It is essentially the same old shit.

Wrong, my class is utterly boring and shitty to play as are most classes. This also means gameplay experience is also terrible and no amount of content they can possibly add will be fun while I am utterly bored and not having fun with gameplay. Gameplay > story or any other aspect of any game. If gameplay sucks, the game is dead.

Wrong you have no clue how most classes plays. They did not change that much since WoD.
If you think classes are boring and shitty to play then it has been like this since WoD.

People were crying in MoP that specs/classes are bloated and "homogenized". Blizz removed handful of spells and utilities.
People were crying in WoD that classes were "pruned".
People were crying in Legion that classes were "pruned" too much (tho it hasn't changed that much).
People were crying in BfA that classes were "pruned" too much (tho it hasn't changed that much).

My opinion: goldfish memory and rose-tinted glasses.

[crono14]

Wrong you have no clue how most classes plays. They did not change that much since WoD.
If you think classes are boring and shitty to play then it has been like this since WoD.

People were crying in MoP that specs/classes are bloated and "homogenized". Blizz removed handful of spells and utilities.
People were crying in WoD that classes were "pruned".
People were crying in Legion that classes were "pruned" too much (tho it hasn't changed that much).
People were crying in BfA that classes were "pruned" too much (tho it hasn't changed that much).

My opinion: goldfish memory and rose-tinted glasses.

Uh wrong again. WoD did nothing to most classes thematically and functionally. They removed some things that were clearly OP like moving while casting which did need a nerf. If anything Legion removed a bunch of cool shit from classes for artifact weapons, and then they removed artifact weapons in BFA and gave us nothing at all. For example, Soul Swap & Demon Form were both taken from warlocks with Legion which were abilities that were awesome and made thematic sense for the class.

Warrior stances were taken away at Legion, something baked into the class since the very beginning of the game. Stupid. A whole lot of classes lost abilities that really gave them an identity and made them fun to play. You are delusional if you think any different. I had a blast during WoD. No one complains about the classes in WoD, they complain about the lack of content which imo WoD had some of the best raids. If you didn't raid, there wasn't much to do though, so I understand that complaint.

Sounds to me like you have no idea what you are talking about.

[kaminaris]

Uh wrong again. WoD did nothing to most classes thematically and functionally.

Ok dude, just admit you didn't play back then.

[crono14]

Ok dude, just admit you didn't play back then.

Nice reply where you have nothing to come back with but a passive aggressive comment. This proved my point exactly. Anyway, have a good day, I won't bother trying to have a nice conversation with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

[kaminaris]

Nice reply where you have nothing to come back with but a passive aggressive comment. This proved my point exactly. Anyway, have a good day, I won't bother trying to have a nice conversation with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Becuse everone who did play back then knows, Wod was first and biggest class prune
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMei1g1EIt0

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_6.0...._consolidation

There was even article about that on blizz website. So no, you did not play back then.

[Vampyr78]

TL;DR: An idea to solve a problem of not enough content is to introduce more content.