Highest DPS on Gehennas by Jan 1, 2020?

[Nitros14]

Flask of Supreme Power: 150
Brilliant Wizard Oil: 36
Greater Arcane Elixir: 35
Arcane Elixir: 20
Frost Power: 15

256

But it doesn't matter. You are comparing a vanilla raid, with gear we do not fully know, with spec we do not know, to two private server videos whose gear and specs we do not know. I had a quick glance at the BWL one, and hes using fucking arcane missiles.


Ragnaros didn't have frost vulnerability. That's all that needs to be said.

That's not a very convincing proof. But you're right we don't know the spec and gear, I'm just assuming the world 3rd C'thun mage and private server mage understand how to spec and gear vs random vanilla mage with t2 shoulders. That said, I'm positive when I hit Ragnaros with frostbolt in BC he took extra damage from it so it would make sense to me.

If you're right it would also mean that 33 random frost mages in vanilla, when no one really knew anything, could sustain between them an average of 500 dps which from most actual vanilla dps meters I've seen seems unlikely. Most people were sitting around 200 dps or less in Blackwing Lair, that's how you get stuff like 30 minute Nefarian kills which weren't uncommon.

Also, I'm comparing two vanilla raids and one private server video.

[Lollis]

That's not a very convincing proof. But you're right we don't know the spec and gear, I'm just assuming the world 3rd C'thun mage and private server mage understand how to spec and gear vs random vanilla mage with t2 shoulders. That said, I'm positive when I hit Ragnaros with frostbolt in BC he took extra damage from it so it would make sense to me.

If you're right it would also means that 33 random frost mages in vanilla, when no one really knew anything, could sustain between them an average of 500 dps which from most actual vanilla dps meters I've seen seems unlikely. Most people were sitting around 100-200 dps or less in Blackwing Lair, that's how you get stuff like 30 minutes Nefarian kills which weren't uncommon.

Also, I'm comparing two vanilla raids and one private server video.

You can't use private servers as a benchmark. I raid lead as arcane frost in vanilla after quitting my rogue, and while I was usually top dps on pretty much all fights, Ragnaros wasn't any different to anything else.

We cannot talk about damage when we do not have a gear and talent breakdown, we especially cannot talk about the 32 other frost mages who cannot be seen. One gnome jumps past who is in tier 2, and then a human that I can't really tell, but when you look at the actual sustained damage when the Cthun mage actually puts his fucking consumables on (wtf), (without best wizard oil and without frost elixir) he is hitting around 1.3-1.5k, and critting 2.8-2.9.

[Nitros14]

If you observe your own videos you see the answer and it's not that Ragnaros takes increased frost damage.

For starters that mage tops out at 1.7k noncrit frostbolts. Towards the end you can see him hitting around 1.5k noncrit with frostbolt. The mage on the private server hits for around 1.4k on average with frostbolt when he's hitting something with Curse of Elements.

So where's the extra damage coming from? Mostly from the Darkmoon buff on the first mage. It's a 10% damage increase and you can see it on their buff bar. Your videos have proved that Ragnaros doesn't taken increased frost damage.

Possibly, if the private server mage rolled 1% and the classic mage rolled 10%. They both have the darkmoon faire buff. I do note the private server mage is using wizard oil and the vanilla mage is not.

That would also be assuming that the vanilla mage has optimized their character and gotten as much spellpower gear as the private server mage. Alternatively they're much less optimized and the damage is coming from a vulnerability.

That is not a proof, but possible. The weird thing is I distinctly remember hitting Ragnaros/fire elementals at 70 and him taking extra damage from frostbolt so it would be confusing to me if he weren't. Dunno if Blizzard would do something extremely weird like add vulnerability to old bosses in Burning Crusade.

Even in Naxxramas with full flask/elixirs/oil this mage in Curse a world top 5 guild is only doing 1300 frostbolts.

[Nitros14]

The private server mage doesn't have Darkmoon buff.

They do.

https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=23...tune-of-damage

It's right next to flask and rallying cry.

[garicasha]

I’m not as up on private servers as you guys are, but wasn’t that “speed clear” back in the day of 30+ frost mages, a tank and a few healers circumstantial proof that Rag (and I believe Geddon) took double frost damage?

Edit: whoops was on my phone, didn't even realize it was linked on page 1.

Also I believe it was changed later, maybe it’s in the patch notes. Probably when things stopped having immunity...like back then Rag was immune to fire but on live I’m confident he isn’t.

I’m a little surprised so many people voted over 1250. There are two adds to cleave off of (it’ll probably be a warrior that does it) but there’s only 4 months to farm gear and there won’t be a ZG buff unless they release it by then. Also, what phase is Darkmoon Faire in?

[Nitros14]

So you're using a completely different video now? I was obviously comparing the first two videos you linked.

Not like it changes anything. That mage clearly has less spell damage on his gear. He's wearing Bloodvine set for spell hit and has a MC weapon instead of a BWL weapon. It makes perfect sense for his frostbolt to hit for about 100 less.

At this point you're arguing that Ragnaros takes 3% extra frost damage or something.

? You said the private server mage.

The second video isn't a private server. It's world 3rd C'thun. In live vanilla in 2006.

Since you said the private server mage I assumed you were referring to the private server video I linked.

What I was arguing is that the C'thun mage is probably better geared and the reason the Ragnaros mage hits harder is Ragnaros is vulnerable to frost damage. Like I linked above, even a mage in Naxxramas gear in a world top 5 guild with flask and elixir and wizard oil only hits for 1300 with frostbolt. 10% damage from a 10% chance darkmoon roll would take him to 1430 still 100 damage below the Ragnaros mage who isn't using wizard oil.

[Nitros14]

On what world is hitting for 1390-1440ish 400 less than a guy hitting for 1500? If you're going to cherry pick like that then he hits for 1750 or something at one point.

I was talking about the C'thun video, which you apparently also were. He's frostbolting the Eye of C'thun for ~1100-1200.

[Xecks]

lol imagine even after seeing the many mistakes private servers made in front of our eyes watching classic beta and still using private servers for evidence of anything.

seriously guys . you smoking that wacky tabbacy again?

[garicasha]

Heh as expected, half the people on this forum are full of it.

15 people voted for over 1250.
15 people voted for options below 1000.

I just don't know which is which yet :-) (And I haven't voted myself!)

I'm also real curious if 4 months is long enough to get whatever is needed to put up the numbers the dudes in the speed run are capable of. I'm guessing it is for an individual...but I dunno about a whole raid of warriors...

[Sorcereria]

Also I believe it was changed later, maybe it’s in the patch notes. Probably when things stopped having immunity...like back then Rag was immune to fire but on live I’m confident he isn’t.

FYI Rag and geddon was Fire immune, so were 3 drakes and Neff in bwl for entire vanila. Speaking from my PoV mage, who raided as Fire very early.
Casting Frostbolts as Fire spec was ~10% lower dps with proper spec. Fire was simply STILL HIGHER DPS on heavy fire resistance non immune bosses (entire MC/BWL except Chromie).
Also mage scaling ends pretty much with BiS BWL/AQ gear. BiS Naxx gear didnt offer that much of a boost except full T3 that was incredibly rare by the time BC patch hit and most guilds stopped raiding at that time.

And for f*** sake, people really still arguing there was frost vurnuable bosses. It WASN'T, I need some nice picture.jpg for this ...

People using private as evidence, especially over people who spent countless DAYS played, clearing naxx AND OVER Vanila movies? YAIKS... You need a tin foil hat.

BTW. Those mages in Curse Video being frost speced and wearing full T2 is why Vanilla players are considered shit. They were, period. BUT and gladly I can say not all of us were, nor was I.

[Axaion]

off topic; kinda nostalgic to see the mage vid from lftw, Mar was a nice dude.

[Cracked]

FYI Rag and geddon was Fire immune, so were 3 drakes and Neff in bwl for entire vanila. Speaking from my PoV mage, who raided as Fire very early.
Casting Frostbolts as Fire spec was ~10% lower dps with proper spec. Fire was simply STILL HIGHER DPS on heavy fire resistance non immune bosses (entire MC/BWL except Chromie).
Also mage scaling ends pretty much with BiS BWL/AQ gear. BiS Naxx gear didnt offer that much of a boost except full T3 that was incredibly rare by the time BC patch hit and most guilds stopped raiding at that time.

And for f*** sake, people really still arguing there was frost vurnuable bosses. It WASN'T, I need some nice picture.jpg for this ...

People using private as evidence, especially over people who spent countless DAYS played, clearing naxx AND OVER Vanila movies? YAIKS... You need a tin foil hat.

BTW. Those mages in Curse Video being frost speced and wearing full T2 is why Vanilla players are considered shit. They were, period. BUT and gladly I can say not all of us were, nor was I.

While none of this is conclusive, it does seem off to me. There is likely no vulnerability, but probably the fact that Rag has 0 frost resist while other bosses tend to have high elemental resistances, which results in a lot of partial resists. Those were not reported by the combat log in vanilla, so we have no way of knowing, but that's how I would explain this.

[Sorcereria]

As far as I remember negative or 0 resistance wouldnt couse a damage vurnability. Vurnabilies funcioned on completly difference basis (chromagus, AQ trash, Tar pit mobs in ungoro being fire vurn etc.)

[Vibah]

I will explain to you why frostbolt rapes Ragnaros. For some reason frostbite seems to work on him, ergo shatter. Yes, it breaks instantly, the root effect, but traveltime on frostbolt seems to snapshot the second you get frostbite procs, which means when a frostbolt lands and procs frostbite, the next one is just done casting, and voila.

[Puri]

Really? Page two and nobody mentioned it?
Before 1.09 and AQ spells on targets with negative resistances had a chance (similiar to crit chance) to have a "vulnerability bonus" ("Verwundbarkeitsbonus" in the screenshot), which allowed crazy numbers. This has been completely removed with that patch, and later it has been readded to Ragnaros only, but has been removed again after they introduced the legacy buff with the first stat squish. So the max cits before 1.09 could be significantly higher than the max crits after 1.09.



edit: Found a later screenshot using the english client:

[Magical Mudcrab]

Alternately you're completely incorrect. There is no reason whatsoever that Frostbolt would deal double damage only to Ragnaros compared to other targets within MC.

Mobs and bosses had thematic resistances - both positive and negative - and immunities. I think all fire elementals had negative frost resistance.

[Grimreaper]

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...MxecQFMwMPQoAA

2handed fury/arms warrior with imp slam, sweeping strikes and pre-raid BiS gear, all available buffs and windfury etc etc, will easily push over 2k dps on that boss if nobody else touches the adds. Ofcourse the obvious problem is keeping him alive for the fight, as he will certainly be tanking it majority of the time, in atleast half leather/mail gear.

[Cracked]

Really? Page two and nobody mentioned it?
Before 1.09 and AQ spells on targets with negative resistances had a chance (similiar to crit chance) to have a "vulnerability bonus" ("Verwundbarkeitsbonus" in the screenshot), which allowed crazy numbers. This has been completely removed with that patch, and later it has been readded to Ragnaros only, but has been removed again after they introduced the legacy buff with the first stat squish. So the max cits before 1.09 could be significantly higher than the max crits after 1.09.

Wow, I guess you learn something new every day. I played a rogue until 1.11 and never saw poisons have vulnerability bonus in my combat log. Cool.

[Nitros14]

Really? Page two and nobody mentioned it?
Before 1.09 and AQ spells on targets with negative resistances had a chance (similiar to crit chance) to have a "vulnerability bonus" ("Verwundbarkeitsbonus" in the screenshot), which allowed crazy numbers. This has been completely removed with that patch, and later it has been readded to Ragnaros only, but has been removed again after they introduced the legacy buff with the first stat squish. So the max cits before 1.09 could be significantly higher than the max crits after 1.09.

[IMG]
edit: Found a later screenshot using the english client:

Oh, well that would explain why I frostbolt Ragnaros for so much in BC.

[garicasha]

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...MxecQFMwMPQoAA

2handed fury/arms warrior with imp slam, sweeping strikes and pre-raid BiS gear, all available buffs and windfury etc etc, will easily push over 2k dps on that boss if nobody else touches the adds. Ofcourse the obvious problem is keeping him alive for the fight, as he will certainly be tanking it majority of the time, in atleast half leather/mail gear.

I believe the adds have a four-second stun, which makes it a little trickier.

And thanks for the post puri, I’m glad I wasn’t crazy. But I’m also shocked that flamewalker healers are vulnerable to fire, unless that’s coming from something else.