9.0 and beyond: Scaling Max Level!

[vertigo12]

They should have done a per patch cycle leveling up system for this expac based in how they release their content and try to iterize things.

They should've gone with 1-3 o upto 4-5 levels during 8.0 5-7 levels on Siege of Zuldazar, 6-8 on Rise of Azshara and the rest would be on the last patch release,8.3 and on.

No wasted exp to gold reward amd character progression doesn't get abruptly interrupted. It works well on how they implement catch up mechanism on every new patch release cycle.

Here' a more detailed explanation:

Normal dungeons level 110 to 113
Mythic dungeons level 112 to 115

Uldir raid block level 115 to 116
Siege of Zuldazar level 116 to 117
Eternal Palace 117 to 118
Next raid will be 120.

They should release level cap by increments in conjuction to a new release of upcoming patch content.
The story is still progressing and the characters are still amassing exp..

A thought from a fellow forumer:

While I get what you are trying to do here, this system would introduce series of issues and I have couple of questions.

So, when game launches, the level cap will be 115 untill Uldir release I assume. The issue I have is the level ranges, as it is how you wrote it down, people can raid Uldir at 115-116 lvl? What's the items character level requirement? Do the items dropped scale with levels (in this case 115-116)? If I loot item at 115, then I level up to 116 will my item have same stats or will that go up? If it goes up, does it mean I have to reclear and get same items again?

If this was meant to be that raids are available only for highest lvl, then there's level scaling/stats issue again. The problem is that after I get full Uldir setup, I level up, my power goes down. This might not be big difference but it feels weird, this suggested progression would feel like 2 steps forward and 1 step back in sense of power up of character, if you would want to compensate it, the power level between tiers would need to go up as well.

I'm not saying it's completely bad idea but with how WoW works nowadays it just creates a lot of mess.

Remember that the system right now with the current level bracket allows ilvl scaling?
Yes, they can increase level cap per patch cycle allowing progression and non wasted exp at gated "level caps"

When a new patch arrives a new level cap increases say 1 or 2 levels, and the process repeats so in the process this will deter everybody speed leveling to max level because max level scales and still be within the max level cap for an expansion although it won't be met at the first few weeks of expac release.

It is similar to how a new Mythic dungeon keystone is released every season and every new tier raid. This means that a gear win't overscale and the reward for obtaining items won't be trivial over a longer period of time. So in a sense it's like WotLK days where your farmed BiS will still be relevant over the next raid tier.

This way normal dungeons and heroic dungeons won't get easily forgotten. Let's say they will introduce mythic+ dungeon version for the 3rd or 4th week of the month and just about the right time they will release the first tier of raid, the ilvl bracket and farming would just be on par. The next patch cycle let's say about 2 to 3 months after would add mythic+ level to day upto 10, and the raid gear reward for +1.0/+1.5 version of the game would slightly be higher, say M+ 11-20, x.2 will be M+ 21-30,etc. This way, progression feels natural and not rushed and there is no more feeling of overfed and drowned by so many loots that get your current gear trivial and worthless. There is also the value of replayabilty of earlier raid aside from rewards there for aesthetic purpose,a higher rarity or version of am equivalent azerite armor.


This way there is no content drought for raid tiers. There os a raid tier for level 115, a raid tier for 117, and perhaps the last raid tier for the final patch and prepatch for the next expac just exactly right when they upscale the level cap to initial announcement for that expac.

As for the raid. Base raid will be normal and LFR. The heroic version will be around +2 to 3 levels higher and difficulty will be somewhat easier to the next patch's raid. They may even release a raid every 2 levels and end up with the same amount of raid similar to TBC (Magtheridon's,Gruul's,TK,SSC, Battle for Mt. Hyjal,BT,SWP and release the azerite armor tied to that raid). It can be released even as biweekly minor patch. Yes it can be visited, and wings can be unlocked weekly.

They may release a mythic+ raid version released in succession at max level say at 130.

This impelentation gives a natural feel for time and content gating with great impact on replayability.

As for level they may introduce level 110 to 115 quest early on for that zone and update quest by adding thing related to next patch's storyline. Initially you wont be drowned with quests but it becomes a series of quests unlocked after doing a chain quest, by progression become more harder even encouraging you to do a group quest or it ties up with other quests from another zone from that expac.

What are your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Any similar ideas or do you approve?

[Khallid]

I don't see the point. Level doesn't mean anything because we don't get new talents or abilities by leveling up. It's a meaningless number. Adding level scaling into the expansion progression accomplishes nothing.

[vertigo12]

I don't see the point. Level doesn't mean anything because we don't get new talents or abilities by leveling up. It's a meaningless number. Adding level scaling into the expansion progression accomplishes nothing.

It does because it will not trivialize rewards. They may hand in hand introduce new spells or talent or basically just include a scaling talent or dynamic talents.

Currently the rewards become nothing but transmog option and gets easily replaced by Mythic+ or titanforged version of it. There is also no need for catch up mechanics or implementation-i'll just wait for next patch since WoW will definitwly hand it out to us without breaking a sweat by merely waiting, they trivialize past efforts, because with this kind of leveling/max level system,the flow of leveling is a catch-up mechanic in itself.

Ilvl on gear is nothing but a cursed bane for players more so for newer ones because just like in WotLK times and that pesky Gearscore add-on caused to much hate and elitism.it somehow evens the field with, relying on to much luck and being favored by RNGod, skills will still be at play, earlier raid will not be trivialized even upto the last 2 to 3 months of expac's life because the way how content are released are paced and iterated naturally.

The goal is to maximize replayability without ending up in trivial pursuits or wasted effort.

[Khallid]

It does because it will not trivialize rewards. They may hand in hand introduce new spells or talent or basically just include a scaling talent or dynamic talents.

Currently the rewards become nothing but transmog option and gets easily replaced by Mythic+ or titanforged version of it. There is also no need for catch up mechanics or implementation-i'll just wait for next patch since WoW will definitwly hand it out to us without breaking a sweat by merely waiting, they trivialize past efforts, because with this kind of leveling/max level system,the flow of leveling is a catch-up mechanic in itself.

Ilvl on gear is nothing but a cursed bane for players more so for newer ones because just like in WotLK times and that pesky Gearscore add-on caused to much hate and elitism.it somehow evens the field with, relying on to much luck and being favored by RNGod, skills will still be at play, earlier raid will not be trivialized even upto the last 2 to 3 months of expac's life because the way how content are released are paced and iterated naturally.

The goal is to maximize replayability without ending up in trivial pursuits or wasted effort.

Those rewards you're talking about also have nothing to do with level. It's the same as any system they add with a content patch, like the essences for 8.2, the Netherlight Crucible in Legion, etc.

The real reward in this game is progression. The satisfaction of killing a hard boss when it's current content. I get it that non-raiders don't want that, but that is the true state of the game right now. The rest of the rewards are trivial because there's no sense of accomplishment. Leveling up is also trivial in modern WoW.

The idea of waiting for next patch to get catch-up gear doesn't apply to progression, because a new raid comes out with it, which is another clear example of how the game is tailored for progression.

Realistically, due to the release of Classic, it seems highly unlikely that they will do any big reform to leveling in the next expansion. Most likely just the level squish.

[DesoPL]

I hope there wouldn't be next expac. Enough damage is allready.

[vertigo12]

I hope there wouldn't be next expac. Enough damage is allready.

Perhaps their mantra is: Break in case of emergency. What has been broken can be made whole once again.

- - - Updated - - -

Those rewards you're talking about also have nothing to do with level. It's the same as any system they add with a content patch, like the essences for 8.2, the Netherlight Crucible in Legion, etc.

The real reward in this game is progression. The satisfaction of killing a hard boss when it's current content. I get it that non-raiders don't want that, but that is the true state of the game right now. The rest of the rewards are trivial because there's no sense of accomplishment. Leveling up is also trivial in modern WoW.

The idea of waiting for next patch to get catch-up gear doesn't apply to progression, because a new raid comes out with it, which is another clear example of how the game is tailored for progression.

Realistically, due to the release of Classic, it seems highly unlikely that they will do any big reform to leveling in the next expansion. Most likely just the level squish.

Spells are inherently tied with level. It is one of the incentives of leveling and by that matter, power progression and reward for reaching certain level of the game.

But I agree with you that RPG is all about progression and NOT REGRESSION.

I fear the worst that one day, the characters will be stripped off with whatever they have and become entirely naked but I AM A GOD Lv 999999.

[sirethas]

A thought from a fellow forumer:





What are your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Any similar ideas or do you approve?

My point was that when you get item from Uldir at lvl116 it will have lower ilvl than when you would get it at lvl117, that's how it works now in dungeons. The item's ilvl is tied to the level you received the item. If raid will have bracket, you will end up with item with lower stats and that will require you to reclear the raid again to get the same item but with appropriate stats to your level.
I can imagine they could make it scale with level like they do herilooms but then you could run into situation when item from first raid will scale up with level and be superior to other items from following raids and it will basically devaluate the feeling of character progression since you would be stuck with same item

[vertigo12]

My point was that when you get item from Uldir at lvl116 it will have lower ilvl than when you would get it at lvl117, that's how it works now in dungeons. The item's ilvl is tied to the level you received the item. If raid will have bracket, you will end up with item with lower stats and that will require you to reclear the raid again to get the same item but with appropriate stats to your level.
I can imagine they could make it scale with level like they do herilooms but then you could run into situation when item from first raid will scale up with level and be superior to other items from following raids and it will basically devaluate the feeling of character progression since you would be stuck with same item

Not unless they reimplement MoP's Warforge/Titan forging scheme baked into Heirloom like mechanics. Or set a iLvl scaling cap per raid/dungeon difficulty. So at higher level, you will always receive the highest cap for that armor/weapon. Or simply place a cap where items could scale and add a gating mechanics which would allow it to continue leveling up say a token for mythic or raid difficulty if you already have the item previously will upgrade it to it's equivalent ilvl for that armor/weapon. Think ToC upgrading mechanics for the tier set.

In actuality, Mythic+ progression is a natural progression for gears but I'm not quite sure at what levels it follows the pattern or an exponential growth. I believe they should introduce the kind of aesthetics they are doing with Warfront armors and apply it in with raid armor design because they're definitely nailing it while the looks of the raid armors are its nail in a coffin.

[rrayy]

I hope there wouldn't be next expac. Enough damage is allready.

Good thing you don't run a business. Someone who would rather not make any money like you should not be in charge of one.

[DesoPL]

Good thing you don't run a business. Someone who would rather not make any money like you should not be in charge of one.

Good thing i'm not blind fan boy so i will not cry out loud.

[tmamass]

It does because it will not trivialize rewards. They may hand in hand introduce new spells or talent or basically just include a scaling talent or dynamic talents.

they wont. this is why a level squish is USELESS and NOT wanted.

[KaPe]

Good thing i'm not blind fan boy so i will not cry out loud.

You are a blind hater who doesn't realize the money involved and how much profit there still is in WoW.

[ceall]

It does because it will not trivialize rewards.

Why wouldn't it? Uldir gear is trivial now, just like it would be if it was lvl 115 gear as dazaralor gear would be for level 117, Azshara gear for 119 and 8.3 gear for 120.
I don't see why you would want to fix sth that isn't broken.

[slime]

Good thing you don't run a business. Someone who would rather not make any money like you should not be in charge of one.

Come on now, even without a new Xpac... WoW would still make plenty of money.

I feel like some people just live in Azeroth at this point - good xpac or bad, they don't care, that is where they live out their lives.

[cuafpr]

i'd rather they do mid-expac lvl increase than world scaling for sure.... leave the starting contacted capped at 105, next patch 110, then 115, then 120.

[KaPe]

Come on now, even without a new Xpac... WoW would still make plenty of money.

Expansions are a major selling points - not to mention costing 3-4 times as much as subscription does. It would be foolish of Blizzard to not make them as long as possible. Doesn't Everquest still do that, even though it's "dead" by WoW playerbase standards?

Especially since 9.0 is most likely long in development and there's probably some very rough outline of 10.

[The Stormbringer]

I don't see the point. Level doesn't mean anything because we don't get new talents or abilities by leveling up. It's a meaningless number. Adding level scaling into the expansion progression accomplishes nothing.

I miss getting new talents and abilities, or even just the WoD thing where they gave pre-existing abilities an upgrade.

[Spotnick]

That's pretty much what Artifact Power does isn't it? It's capped every "season", and unlocked with a new raid, so.... yeah.

[DesoPL]

You are a blind hater who doesn't realize the money involved and how much profit there still is in WoW.

And? Or you know what? Nevermind... Keep been blind.

[MechaCThun]

No scaling, no thanks.