Back in WotLK you could actually beat the game

[Wilfire]

You got to level 80 and that was it. You were done with the majority of zones except for pockets of endgame daily quests in Storm Peaks, Icecrown and Sholazar.
You finished farming gear from dungeons and that was it. You were done with dungeons for the rest of the expansion except for the daily badge quest which really wasn't mandatory if you were raiding.
You finished farming gear from raids and that was it. You were BiS in every slot and then could push rankings or just chill out and play alts.
You finished farming reputation and that was it. You bought all rewards from the vendor and never went back to grinding rep for that particular faction.
You leveled professions to 450 and that was it. You didn't need to collect new recipes and grind new herbs every patch.

In BfA...
You level to 120 and that's not it. You still have to run WQs in every zone every day to farm AP lest you fall off the treadmill.
You finish farming gear from dungeons but that's not it. There's an infinitely scaling system where dungeons get progressively more difficult meaning you can never beat a particular dungeon.
You finish farming gear from raids but that's not it. You'll never be BiS because you'll never have items that titanforge to max in every slot, have a tertiary and a socket on them. You'll keep grinding forever.
You farm reputation to exalted but that's not it. You can't just buy the rewards. You have to keep grinding that rep in hopes of getting a lucky drop from the supply chests.
You level professions to 150 but that's not it. A new patch comes along with more levels to grind and new recipes and herbs to farm.

Good thing people enjoy repeating the same content ad nauseam, am I right?

[Directionalk9]

so don’t then?

[RobertMugabe]

1. No one is forcing you to play this game. You can set your own goals or stop whenever you want with the game.
2. Wotlk did actually add new recipes and new badges to farm EVERY patch
3. In Wotlk it could take a very long time to get all of your BiS stuff if you could use a legendary... or there's a high chance you'd never have BiS

Srsly, all of your threads always sound like a lot of whining and no constructive criticism. Sure BfA has a lot of issues and I don't like titanforging either, but your threads always sound so much like you wanna stop playing, but are so addicted to this game that you can't and thus you write this.

[ArenaDk]

How comes you start 90% of all negative threads on this site ?

[RemasteredClassic]

One word: Greed.

My advice: This shit is not worth your time. They are not worth your comments. They can only learn from numbers. When the numbers go down, they ask themselves, what can be changed, hit and miss business since their logic is itself shaky.

Take a break, explore other games, I know it might be hard, but it is more fun than sitting on the forums (and I am also telling this to myself). Hoping that your feedback can make change is naive, you'll have haters attack you in every way possible. These are usually either new players or Blizz employees trying hard to lie to themselves that their game is still good.

Let's take a break, go play some other game until WoW is changed to something closer to what we'd like. It will never be 100% perfect and to our liking, too many people involved and they all wanna leave their mark and take credit.

[PenguinChan]

The major difference you just mentioned is that you could see a goal in sight and know what you're doing is assuredly going to give you something in return. That's not what happens now, or at least not as forward as it once was. This is why the badge system and the like was superior, and still is - and annoyingly it's coming back in different forms every time as Blizzard tries to reinvent it.

[Chrotesque]

While the loss of feeling "done" with anything can surely be annoying for people that don't play much else than WoW and expect to be entertained by it 24/7 (or so it feels), I find that it's more enjoyable if there is stuff to do that is, for the most part (as a casual), entirely optional and life won't end, should I choose not to participate for a day or a week even. Especially in an MMO I feel this is how it should feel, always something to do - if I want to finish a game, a single player game might be better suited for that purpose or feeling of accomplishment.

[Popastique]

You got to level 80 and that was it. You were done with the majority of zones except for pockets of endgame daily quests in Storm Peaks, Icecrown and Sholazar.
You finished farming gear from dungeons and that was it. You were done with dungeons for the rest of the expansion except for the daily badge quest which really wasn't mandatory if you were raiding.
You finished farming gear from raids and that was it. You were BiS in every slot and then could push rankings or just chill out and play alts.
You finished farming reputation and that was it. You bought all rewards from the vendor and never went back to grinding rep for that particular faction.
You leveled professions to 450 and that was it. You didn't need to collect new recipes and grind new herbs every patch.

In BfA...
You level to 120 and that's not it. You still have to run WQs in every zone every day to farm AP lest you fall off the treadmill.
You finish farming gear from dungeons but that's not it. There's an infinitely scaling system where dungeons get progressively more difficult meaning you can never beat a particular dungeon.
You finish farming gear from raids but that's not it. You'll never be BiS because you'll never have items that titanforge to max in every slot, have a tertiary and a socket on them. You'll keep grinding forever.
You farm reputation to exalted but that's not it. You can't just buy the rewards. You have to keep grinding that rep in hopes of getting a lucky drop from the supply chests.
You level professions to 150 but that's not it. A new patch comes along with more levels to grind and new recipes and herbs to farm.

Good thing people enjoy repeating the same content ad nauseam, am I right?

Don't play then, i enjoy BFA. And i enjoyed WOTLK.

[eduwneso]

What's the problem for people to have an incentive to farm dungeons in M+? for people who actually like M+ and doing dungeons this is the best that blizzard has done for them, I do one or two dungeons a week for my chest with my friends with no presure at all if I don't do it, I almost never do WQ only the emmisary ones, I never do islands and I'm not that far down in neck and I'm also doing ok with everything.

You make it a threadmill if you want it to be. And if you like farming and doing stuff all the time you have it. If you only enjoy during some stuff every day or every so often and still be up to date you have it.

What's the problem with a patch with new recipes and updated crafting professions? This is the point I feel is the meh one here

The only thing from TF I do not like is that to have sockets you need TF, in there I agree you have a degree of threadmill, but only if you are part of the 1% that need to be the absolute best and do the most challenging content. I got the items I wanted from raid, my "BIS" and cleaning up the raid until we got jaina if I had a TF then good for me, if not, then Having fun with my mates and bringing down bosses.

About reputations, I like paragon so I don't agree there sorry, you ahve vendors for them but also more stuff (ussually worthless let's be real) from those chests, so if you have been doing some WQ for the emissary of the day sometimes you will have a delicious chest with some gold, ap and resources. I don't see a problem there

Of course this is only my humble opinion

[Rendark]

That's why i hate Legion. It killed being done with the game until the next patch.

[RemasteredClassic]

What's the problem for people to have an incentive to farm dungeons in M+? for people who actually like M+ and doing dungeons this is the best that blizzard has done for them, I do one or two dungeons a week for my chest with my friends with no presure at all if I don't do it, I almost never do WQ only the emmisary ones, I never do islands and I'm not that far down in neck and I'm also doing ok with everything.

You make it a threadmill if you want it to be. And if you like farming and doing stuff all the time you have it. If you only enjoy during some stuff every day or every so often and still be up to date you have it.

What's the problem with a patch with new recipes and updated crafting professions? This is the point I feel is the meh one here

The only thing from TF I do not agree with is that to have sockets you need TF, in there I agree you have a degree of threadmill, but only if you are part of the 1% that need to be the absolute best and do the most challenging content. I got the items I wanted from raid, my "BIS" and cleaning up the raid until we got jaina if I had a TF then good for me, if not, then Having fun with my mates and bringing down bosses.

About reputations, I like paragon so I don't agree there sorry, you ahve vendors for them but also more stuff (ussually worthless let's be real) from those chests, so if you have been doing some WQ for the emissary of the day sometimes you will have a delicious chest with some gold, ap and resources. I don't see a problem there

Of course this is only my humble opinion

And what if I tell you your opinion is exactly how I feel about BDO, you're not gonna attack me? Oh, right, you work for Blizzard, not Pearl Abyss.

[eduwneso]

And what if I tell you your opinion is exactly how I feel about BDO, you're not gonna attack me? Oh, right, you work for Blizzard, not Pearl Abyss.

First, If you see this as an attack you need to get out of forums, a piece of advise

I can't tell you about BDO because I don't play it, so what you said there doesn't hold an argument, come with another one please

[erifwodahs]

You got to level 80 and that was it. You were done with the majority of zones except for pockets of endgame daily quests in Storm Peaks, Icecrown and Sholazar.
You finished farming gear from dungeons and that was it. You were done with dungeons for the rest of the expansion except for the daily badge quest which really wasn't mandatory if you were raiding.
You finished farming gear from raids and that was it. You were BiS in every slot and then could push rankings or just chill out and play alts.
You finished farming reputation and that was it. You bought all rewards from the vendor and never went back to grinding rep for that particular faction.
You leveled professions to 450 and that was it. You didn't need to collect new recipes and grind new herbs every patch.

In BfA...
You level to 120 and that's not it. You still have to run WQs in every zone every day to farm AP lest you fall off the treadmill.
You finish farming gear from dungeons but that's not it. There's an infinitely scaling system where dungeons get progressively more difficult meaning you can never beat a particular dungeon.
You finish farming gear from raids but that's not it. You'll never be BiS because you'll never have items that titanforge to max in every slot, have a tertiary and a socket on them. You'll keep grinding forever.
You farm reputation to exalted but that's not it. You can't just buy the rewards. You have to keep grinding that rep in hopes of getting a lucky drop from the supply chests.
You level professions to 150 but that's not it. A new patch comes along with more levels to grind and new recipes and herbs to farm.

Good thing people enjoy repeating the same content ad nauseam, am I right?

So much bullshit. Same as in every other expansion, reach 120, grind rep, get max gear from quests/rep. Ditch it. Did that at 70, 80, 90. 110 120.
Killed mythic raid boss? Done. Want to parse? Cool. Does half of people give a shit? No.
Game OFFERS you something, for re-playing content. In any other PRE Legion expansion you could do a dungeons and get nothing. No better loot from raids. Nothing.
"There is nothing to do I cleared X tier, WE WANT CONTENT NOW"

[VladimirM]

I played WotLK ALOT, had second realm GS on non-Shadowmourne classes. Raided on several characters (including downing HC LK). And still didn't have the BiS gear on any of them. (Didn't miss a single raid the entire expansion)

[lectos]

Here's a novel idea, you don't need BiS and a maxed out character and achievements to play the game unless that is your only goal.

[Cracked]

Back in 1992 I was programming a DikuMUD. It had a level cap, so first you'd grind XP to that cap. After that you could continue grind XP and convert it to stats (so a million XP would give you +1 STR). You could keep doing this forever.

It's not a new concept and it was requested and the players liked it.

It's certainly not, but there's a lot of space between X and Y. I, for one, feel much better about actually finishing anything a game can offer to me, than repeating something for so long that I lose interest in finishing it.

I lose interest in killing Shaper/Uber Elder in PoE when my patience of farming maps runs dry.
I lose interesting in farming higher level areas in BDO when I lose patience in spending days in the same spots farming the same mobs to get to a higher level.
I lose interest in beating grift 140 when my patience of farming paragon and enchanting all my primals and ancients with + stats runs out.

I'm not an impatient man, but all these instances have a very important commonality: The content that you get to see if you carry on is not fundamentally different.

WoW is still in a good place here, having a low neck ilvl or not enough titanforge doesn't stop you from killing all bosses. That said, the constant flow of new content shifts that goalpost without you having to do anything yourself. So I see where this complaint comes from. You can spend a month now nolifing WoW to get a higher neck / ilvl to get better chances at advancing your character, but then 3 months later daddy Blizzard comes in and basically says "The effort you put into our game over the past year now means fuckall, have fun with the 'new' content!". Clearly there needs to be some sort of catchup, but dear god, there has to be something better than invalidating everything that came before.

[BetrayedOf52]

I remember when fondly saying anything about wotlk made you a wrath baby, and no one liked how easy the game had become. Fast forward 10 years and wotlk is the most fondly looked upon expansion ever really. Never know what expansion we will miss in the next 5 to 10 years.

[Gurahk]

Why is it whenever I see one of these threads, it's the same OP.

[Sezh]

Too much content: Greedy blizz forcing us to stay subscribed and play indefinately!
Too little content: Greedy blizz expecting us to pay subscription every month with no updates!

There's no way to win when it comes to bitter, resentful people. My advice? There's something else missing in your life that makes you this sad way. Try and fix that and your compulsive need to complain and rage will sort itself out.

[Wilfire]

Too much content: Desperate greedy blizz forcing us to subscribe and play!
Too little content: Failure blizz unable to keep their shit game alive!

There's no way to win when it comes to bitter, resentful people.

Actually the "too little content" are the bitter, resentful crowd. Rest of us are more than happy to clear the content and chill out for a couple of months. But some people make WoW their entire life and it's a personal tragedy if they log on and find that they have nothing to do.