Half of US population lives in 9 states.

[lockedout]

I did support my argument. A city of 190 people is a small city, but it is a city none the less. If you want to dictate the difference between a town and a city based on size, you will need to specify the cut-off point.

A town is a human settlement. Towns are generally larger than villages but smaller than cities, though the criteria to distinguish them vary considerably between different parts of the world.

A city is a large human settlement.[4][5] Cities generally have extensive systems for housing, transportation, sanitation, utilities, land use, and communication. Their density facilitates interaction between people, government organizations and businesses, sometimes benefiting different parties in the process.

[Ghostpanther]

This is primarily why older conservatives annoy me.

They have little regard for the matters of things, and come across extremely selfish and essentially live by "well I got mine while fucking yours... go find something else and don't bother me."

"Yeah I'm dying out, and so is my political class, but fuck that Conservative Aristocracy should rule the country!"

I am a example in the US of how you can come from rags ( extremely poor ) to a comfortable retirement. Besides the opportunities I had, it also took hard work, sacrifice and careful planning. I did not have the attitude of, " Oh well, I may not even be alive when I will have reached retirement age. May has well just live it up and spend like crazy."

And no, you would be wrong in that I have little regard for matter of things, I do. That is why I voted for Trump and will again. I guess it is a matter of us not having the same concerns. But you can still do your part, as I do, in pushing for the changes or preservation's you desire. Isn't being a US citizen a great thing?

[Themius]

I am a example in the US of how you can come from rags ( extremely poor ) to a comfortable retirement. Besides the opportunities I had, it also took hard work, sacrifice and careful planning. I did not have the attitude of, " Oh well, I may not even be alive when I will have reached retirement age. May has well just live it up and spend like crazy."

And no, you would be wrong in that I have little regard for matter of things, I do. That is why I voted for Trump and will again. I guess it is a matter of us not having the same concerns. But you can still do your part, as I do, in pushing for the changes or preservation's you desire. Isn't being a US citizen a great thing?

Americans really do think they're so special... and if you had any regard for a matter of things why do you trust giving more money to the wealthiest do you think that makes more opportunity truly?

[Ghostpanther]

Americans really do think they're so special... and if you had any regard for a matter of things why do you trust giving more money to the wealthiest do you think that makes more opportunity truly?

Yes we do, because in many ways, we are. And it is the richer people who help create the jobs for the average people to have ones. I do not envy or am jealous of others because of how rich they are. If they got it only from rich parents, then good for them. Personally I am for a bracketed sales tax instead of a income tax. But we will never see that in the US.

[Sunseeker]

Because the other 41 states suck for opportunities, income, lack infrastructure, are run by people that hate these things, are populated by people who don't want these things oh and they're poor.

[PickleballAce]

Because the other 41 states suck for opportunities, income, lack infrastructure, are run by people that hate these things, are populated by people who don't want these things oh and they're poor.

Well, not all of them.

Of the top 20 states by Per Capita Income, 17 of those aren't in the 9 states listed in the OP.

Maryland
New Jersey
Hawaii
Massachusetts
Connecticut
New Hampshire
Alaska
California
Virginia
Washington
Colorado
Minnesota
Utah
New York
Rhode Island
Illinois
Delaware
North Dakota
Wyoming
Oregon

[Themius]

Yes we do, because in many ways, we are. And it is the richer people who help create the jobs for the average people to have ones. I do not envy or am jealous of others because of how rich they are. If they got it only from rich parents, then good for them. Personally I am for a bracketed sales tax instead of a income tax. But we will never see that in the US.

Rich people create jobs for the least cost possible... no one is creating jobs to try to uplift people and in the end they will be greedy and try to minimize their taxes, maximize profits, while shortchanging their employees by as much as possible... yet America long taxed them until recently...

I mean tell me, do you find it crazy that classic conservatives from years past today by your current party would be considered "radical socialist"?

[Stormdash]

Why should 30% of people get to dictate the country if we continue to move to cities.

People live in the cities or states and people vote not fucking land

I feel like people are forgetting the issue with feudalism and the lack of power the majority had this is like wanting tyranny by the minority becaue they spread out so the fuck what? Why should a literal minority get absolute say in what affects the majority?

It is also power hungry dying Republican Party people who support this because they hate democracy they just want power.

“Fuck power to the people. Power to the land!!!”

Why does one person in a rural area get more of a say than idk... 20k people in the same size area?

The United States is the political/juridical equivalent of an HOA, and the states are the households in it. If you have a neighbor with 14 kids, should they get 16 votes on whether there is going to be assessment for doing new landscaping and thereby outvote 4-5 other whole households? Of course not - because each household has an equal and independent stake in the business of the HOA.

[Celista]

I am a example in the US of how you can come from rags ( extremely poor ) to a comfortable retirement. Besides the opportunities I had, it also took hard work, sacrifice and careful planning. I did not have the attitude of, " Oh well, I may not even be alive when I will have reached retirement age. May has well just live it up and spend like crazy."

I pulled myself up too but it is becoming increasingly more difficult for people to do that. Rental rates have quadrupled in the last decade, for example, way outpacing inflation. Cost of higher education is through the roof. Health care costs have soared.

The world is not the same place it was, even as little as 5-10 years ago.

[Sunseeker]

Well, not all of them.

Of the top 20 states by Per Capita Income, 17 of those aren't in the 9 states listed in the OP.

Maryland
New Jersey
Hawaii
Massachusetts
Connecticut
New Hampshire
Alaska
California
Virginia
Washington
Colorado
Minnesota
Utah
New York
Rhode Island
Illinois
Delaware
North Dakota
Wyoming
Oregon

HAHAHAHAHA Wyoming in the top-20 per capita? HAHAHAHAHAHHAA

-1 sin

[Themius]

The United States is the political/juridical equivalent of an HOA, and the states are the households in it. If you have a neighbor with 14 kids, should they get 16 votes on whether there is going to be assessment for doing new landscaping and thereby outvote 4-5 other whole households? Of course not - because each household has an equal and independent stake in the business of the HOA.

This is like having an hoa and saying the people in houses get one vote per adult but the people in buildings get one vote for the entire building regardless of how many adults are in there.

[Mihalik]

The United States is the political/juridical equivalent of an HOA, and the states are the households in it. If you have a neighbor with 14 kids, should they get 16 votes on whether there is going to be assessment for doing new landscaping and thereby outvote 4-5 other whole households? Of course not - because each household has an equal and independent stake in the business of the HOA.

That's a TERRIBLE analogy. Like just horrible.

First, the States do not in fact have equal stakes in the Union, their contributions are different and their interests and priorities are also often wildly different. Furthermore much of what we consider the individual states are in fact are mostly the property of the Union, in which again then different states have unequal stakes. With other words technically New York and Massachusetts literally both own and to a large degree finance much of let's say Oregon or Oklahoma, but don't actually get much of say in the administration of Oregon and Oklahoma.

The analogy that works for describing the functioning of Federal Republic is a Joint Stock Company, and not a HOA.

Although what we have now is basically a Joint Stock Company partially run like a HOA. Which is the source of much of its dysfunction.

[Muzjhath]

Because we are a Republic comprised of a union of Democratic States. The Constitution is written to reflect that and can be annoying to some. Do not like it? Then push for a amendment.

Yes, and you have the senate for that. To represent the states.
You've got the house of representatives to represent the people.
And the President to represent the federal nation.
Land shouldn't matter at all in electing the latter. The people should. (And just changing it to a simple FPTP 1 round popular election would be almost as bad as the current system. Run-of voting or multiple round election is needed).

[Ghostpanther]

Rich people create jobs for the least cost possible... no one is creating jobs to try to uplift people and in the end they will be greedy and try to minimize their taxes, maximize profits, while shortchanging their employees by as much as possible... yet America long taxed them until recently...

I mean tell me, do you find it crazy that classic conservatives from years past today by your current party would be considered "radical socialist"?

I do not think that is going to happen. But anything is possible. *shrugs.

- - - Updated - - -

I pulled myself up too but it is becoming increasingly more difficult for people to do that. Rental rates have quadrupled in the last decade, for example, way outpacing inflation. Cost of higher education is through the roof. Health care costs have soared.

The world is not the same place it was, even as little as 5-10 years ago.

Things have changed , no questioning that. But the same principles apply. Trade schools now are better in many ways than having a college degree. Some states are taxing the crap out of the citizens, which makes living there harder. When Cal. average home price is 480k+ and Ohio's is 148k, something is causing that. $15 a hour in Ohio, will not buy near as much in Cal and similar high taxes states.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, and you have the senate for that. To represent the states.
You've got the house of representatives to represent the people.
And the President to represent the federal nation.
Land shouldn't matter at all in electing the latter. The people should. (And just changing it to a simple FPTP 1 round popular election would be almost as bad as the current system. Run-of voting or multiple round election is needed).

And we have the right to amend the Constitution. If you are a US citizen, you have the right to do stuff to help that come about. Until then, the Constitutional process and laws must prevail.

[Mihalik]

Things have changed , no questioning that. But the same principles apply. Trade schools now are better in many ways than having a college degree. Some states are taxing the crap out of the citizens, which makes living there harder. When Cal. average home price is 480k+ and Ohio's is 148k, something is causing that. $15 a hour in Ohio, will not buy near as much in Cal and similar high taxes states.


.

Same principles do not apply. As things have moved along two things occurred, 1 being educational specialization driven by increased technical and technological specialization. Many areas which less than 30 or 40 (which I remind you wasn't that long ago, we are talking 80s and 90s) years ago required little more than the equivalent of a highschool degree today need the equivalent of a bachelors degree or even a masters degree to do. Everything from education, healthcare (nursing) quality control, mechanical and electronics repairs etc. 2 This increase in specialization has caused a somewhat misguided focus on higher education which in turn has caused a phenomenon on educational requirement inflation. Where an ever increasing percentage of the population has had higher education the minimum requirements for jobs that might not need much more than secondary education has been bumped up to a point where your might not get hired for a job as a store manager or a warehouse manager if you don't have a college degree. You might not need one for the job, or have one that is in any way related to your job, but it is expected.

This problem will be further compounded by the fact that it's always the jobs with the lowest educational requirement are the ones first eleminated by automation.

While trades school professions still have quite a bit of leg in them they are also experiencing a phenomenon where they are either increasing in complexity or are being gradually eliminated by automation and pre-fabrication.

An increased focus on trade school education is a good short to medium term solution to certain problems, but frankly it might not be all that it's cracked up to be by the time kids that are being born today are being old enough to enter the labor force.

This is one of the problems of education as a whole, structural changes are slow, often requiring 10-20 year cycles, by the time something goes into full effect it is often outdated and the economic environment it was meant to service no longer exists.

Having a college education often means you are actually much more adaptable to changing economic climates or personal conditions than someone without.

I'm a geologist by trade. I worked in field geology my first 3 years after college, then I quit for personal reasons and ended up living somewhere where due to the economic climate at the time my skills were practically worthless.

So I took a post grad course and I became a teacher for a while. Since I have been an officer manager, a compliance officer and I am now Operations director in an industrial services company.

I would say since I left field geology about 11 years ago, only about 20% of what I did was anyway related to what I have studied. But having a college degree gave me the flexibility to pursue different jobs that someone with a tradeschool background wouldn't have.

Also the fact that Cali has 4 times the population of Ohio and roughly about 5 times its GDP might have more to do with property prices than taxes.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Na. You are forgetting Texas. They could just trade with them.

Texas thrives mostly because of the very liberal tech cities. I suppose they could sustain themselves off of the conservative leaning beef industry, but they certainly couldn't prop up the poorer red states with trade. In the end, even those poorer red states get most of their revenue from the cities, which are all largely liberal, along with federal funding to prop up the people who choose to live in poverty and would die of hunger without said funding.

[Stormdash]

That's a TERRIBLE analogy. Like just horrible.

First, the States do not in fact have equal stakes in the Union, their contributions are different and their interests and priorities are also often wildly different. Furthermore much of what we consider the individual states are in fact are mostly the property of the Union, in which again then different states have unequal stakes. With other words technically New York and Massachusetts literally both own and to a large degree finance much of let's say Oregon or Oklahoma, but don't actually get much of say in the administration of Oregon and Oklahoma.

The analogy that works for describing the functioning of Federal Republic is a Joint Stock Company, and not a HOA.

Although what we have now is basically a Joint Stock Company partially run like a HOA. Which is the source of much of its dysfunction.

The states do have equal political sovereignty to each other. It's the operant premise of their even having been a union at all, and still is the definitive measure of how the Constitution is configured and how it can be changed. It's hard-wired into the bicameral legislature, which is in turn the paradigm upon which the electoral college is built.

In point of fact, two thirds of the states could, right here and now, call a meeting at which they could propose the dissolution of the federal government, and if three quarters of those states agreed, then the federal government would cease to exist. Because it was built by the states to be a tool for their common interests. The states brought it into this world and, as the saying goes, they can take it out again, without any branch of the federal government having any say on the matter.

- - - Updated - - -

Texas thrives mostly because of the very liberal tech cities. I suppose they could sustain themselves off of the conservative leaning beef industry, but they certainly couldn't prop up the poorer red states with trade. In the end, even those poorer red states get most of their revenue from the cities, which are all largely liberal, along with federal funding to prop up the people who choose to live in poverty and would die of hunger without said funding.

Yeah... the tech industry. I can't think of any other viable economic benefit that Texas has ever yielded. Just lol.

[Mihalik]

The states do have equal political sovereignty to each other. It's the operant premise of their even having been a union at all, and still is the definitive measure of how the Constitution is configured and how it can be changed. It's hard-wired into the bicameral legislature, which is in turn the paradigm upon which the electoral college is built.

In point of fact, two thirds of the states could, right here and now, call a meeting at which they could propose the dissolution of the federal government, and if three quarters of those states agreed, then the federal government would cease to exist. Because it was built by the states to be a tool for their common interests. The states brought it into this world and, as the saying goes, they can take it out again, without any branch of the federal government having any say on the matter.

Again, it is why the system is inherently dysfunctional and this is why a constitutional amendment is required to abolish the electoral college. There's a clash between the practical and the theoretical, the popular vote with a multiple ranked choice option would reconcile this dysfunction.

[cubby]

I love when people think they've got the statistic that proves the electoral college is useless when their statistic is actually a stark reminder of why we have it in the first place. To think that the polities of a mere nine states should have definitive hold over public policy that applies to the various polities of all 50... lol.

I love it when people are so bad at math they think it's ok for a vote in New Hamshire to be worth four times that of a vote in Texas. But please continue with your delusions about how "fair" the EC is - you and your Trumpkin ilk love it because it's the only way the GOP gets someone in the White House.

Or should one person's vote be worth less than anothers? Because that's how the EC works.

[Themius]

I love it when people are so bad at math they think it's ok for a vote in New Hamshire to be worth four times that of a vote in Texas. But please continue with your delusions about how "fair" the EC is - you and your Trumpkin ilk love it because it's the only way the GOP gets someone in the White House.

Or should one person's vote be worth less than anothers? Because that's how the EC works.

Well you see... the land became sentient and so we must respect it!