425 non-socketed benthic gear with bonuses can be better than 455 gear

[MrExcelion]

I've seen some misinformation regarding benthic gear discussed here. With its extra bonuses, a 425 non-socketed benthic item can be better than a 455 +10 warforged mythic raid piece (mythic starts at 445). Wowhead took the time to put forth some sims today.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=293826/...st-benthic-arm

Sockets push the items even further ahead, especially with the new epic gems.

So now that it's more out in the open, how does the community feel about this system? Do you think it devalues mythic raiding or other gearing systems? Or maybe it gives mythic raiders more content to do outside of raiding (burnout though)? Do you think it makes gearing more interesting since there's no titanforging (gambling for sockets+right item though)? Is it a return to having Justice Point vendors in a sense? Probably other angles you can take with it.

Or simply, how do you feel about the benthic system as a whole as a character progression system? Feel free to talk about the kind of content you do and all that for some additional insight into your perspective.


Edit July 18: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/23#boss=2298 Just a friendly reminder that you can see what gear players are using on a given fight in real world conditions. Click on the down arrow for individual players.

[Big Thanks]

Kinda offtopic, but today i just replaced a Benthic piece i worked on with 100 pearls...kinda heartbreaking...seeing all those days put to waste on a single piece.

But you wont feel this heartbreaking experience i just felt.
So isnt this a good thing?

Think it as a legion legendary item. A BIS piece you will have on Eternal Palace. (and eternal palace ONLY)

[Marrilaife]

I'm waiting for the day Ion fulfils his promise that ilvl is a measurement of an upgrade in this game. Time and time again it isn't.

[Wingspan]

The cynic in me thinks Bliz created this situation on purpose in order to get longer time spent numbers from heroic/mythic raiders.

What’s more likely though is that they are just incompetent at balancing and will be nerfing said items in the near future. If so, they will probably still be excellent items post-nerf but no longer better than maximum item level items.

Regardless, even if they just let it ride and change nothing, these items will be sub par during the next tier... so raiders will need to get raid drops for the same slots and hold on to them.

[Big Thanks]

The cynic in me thinks Bliz created this situation on purpose in order to get longer time spent numbers from heroic/mythic raiders.

Wouldnt it be better to come up with a tactic to hold up casuals? Since its a way bigger number of players than Heroic and Mythic raiders put together?

Benthic gear is actually a 2 in 1.
Casuals and raiders want this pieces...or maybe not, i still dont know if a casual will farm 1000 pearls to upgrade all gear.

[Wingspan]

Wouldnt it be better to come up with a tactic to hold up casuals? Since its a way bigger number of players than Heroic and Mythic raiders put together?

Benthic gear is actually a 2 in 1.
Casuals and raiders want this pieces...or maybe not, i still dont know if a casual will farm 1000 pearls to upgrade all gear.

Casuals are probably already tied-up in the Benthic system, so no further incentives should be needed. It is already a pretty slow gearing system if your plan is to max out Benthic slots and item levels. (This is what I have heard anyway... I am not currently playing, so I do not speak from experience.)

Upper level raiders however might have smaller amounts of time spent due to basically just raiding and logging out for the most part, so this could be a carrot to push some world content on the raiding audience.

While I do think this all a possibility, I really do suspect it’s more the incompetence factor that I mentioned above.

[TyrianFC]

Its fine. The fact that socketed benthic is a couple hundred dps than raiding gear - is irrelevant for most of the raiding population except those who wish to perform at the very highest level andor push the content fastest while their overall average raid ilvl is low. If these players want to farm lots of pearls for this advantage - let them.

The fact is that, for most people, the dps upgrade benthic gives is still completely overshadowed by the level of player skill. A shitty player witih benthic socketed gear is still not going to perform better than a great player without benthic gear. Unless we are going to pretend that every single player using benthic gear plays to 100% level of their sim theoretical?

[Has lost its way]

Its fine. The fact that socketed benthic is a couple hundred dps than raiding gear - is irrelevant for most of the raiding population except those who wish to perform at the very highest level andor push the content fastest while their overall average raid ilvl is low. If these players want to farm lots of pearls for this advantage - let them.

The fact is that, for most people, the dps upgrade benthic gives is still completely overshadowed by the level of player skill. A shitty player witih benthic socketed gear is still not going to perform better than a great player without benthic gear. Unless we are going to pretend that every single player using benthic gear plays to 100% level of their sim theoretical?

That doesn't make any sense... a dps gain is a dps gain even to people not maximizing their play...

Whatever point you think your making doesn't make sense.

[Redroniksre]

That doesn't make any sense... a dps gain is a dps gain even to people not maximizing their play...

Whatever point you think your making doesn't make sense.

A gain is a gain, you are right, but how important that gain is depends on your level of play. Similar to class changes, a 5% difference wont likely be realized by most of the rif-raff raiding. At lower levels, if that dps is what you need to push the boss, maybe just try practicing better play to get that boost from yourself instead?

[Mikazukinoyaiba]

It doesnt matter, the raiding scene is already dead, its about time other MMO take its spot instead.

[Has lost its way]

A gain is a gain, you are right, but how important that gain is depends on your level of play. Similar to class changes, a 5% difference wont likely be realized by most of the rif-raff raiding. At lower levels, if that dps is what you need to push the boss, maybe just try practicing better play to get that boost from yourself instead?

So why not make a item that instantly kills the boss if you type in a 40 button combo?

This is terrible logic and speaks volumes to how the gear and difficulty spikes got out of control with the game. In the past when a item was absurdly powerful after vanilla it was seen a design mistake not a feature.

[Redroniksre]

So why not make a item that instantly kills the boss if you type in a 40 button combo?

This is terrible logic and speaks volumes to how the gear and difficulty spikes got out of control with the game. In the past when a item was absurdly powerful after vanilla it was seen a design mistake not a feature.

I am not saying you are wrong, even Blizzard has said that iLevel should trump all. While it should be fixed, what i am saying is that the importance of it is relatively low, because the only people it will really affect are people at the high end of mythic raiding who are already at peak performance.

[clevin]

And how many pearls will you need to upgrade all benthic gear to 425?

[Vapo]

And how many pearls will you need to upgrade all benthic gear to 425?

"In order to reach item level 425 from 385 in a non-Azerite piece, you must spend 220 in that piece"

[SinR]

It doesnt matter, the raiding scene is already dead, its about time other MMO take its spot instead.

show me this magical MMORPG thats got a better raid system than WoW.

[Super Kami Dende]

why does it matter? If someone puts 12hours into getting a perfect piece of Benthic gear and someone gets a similar piece for a few hours of raiding. Why should it matter? Both People are putting time into the game.

[Aggrophobic]

I don't see the issue. You've put down quite a bit of time getting that item.
Heck, you could get a TF item from HC without more than 10 min of hardly any effort as the bosses are silly easy.

My guess is that the first few bosses in mythic will be a cake walk as well. With the benthic gear you actually have to put in at least some effort. Why is this a problem?

[tru]

Let's hope it's leveling gear and this shit is about over with

[Clozer]

I don't see the issue. You've put down quite a bit of time getting that item.
Heck, you could get a TF item from HC without more than 10 min of hardly any effort as the bosses are silly easy.

My guess is that the first few bosses in mythic will be a cake walk as well. With the benthic gear you actually have to put in at least some effort. Why is this a problem?

What effort you talking about? You kill like 3 dudes a day + do 2-3 wq then grab any rare you find and you nearly maxed out your manaperls for that day. There are a bunch of player already having that gear maxed out with sockets. This means they did HC palace with gear thats a lot better than mythic palace could drop..

[Twdft]

That doesn't make any sense... a dps gain is a dps gain even to people not maximizing their play...

Whatever point you think your making doesn't make sense.

A dps gain is a dps gain, that's right. But... boss kills for less than perfect players are not decided by a 0,1% damage increase but rather if they can concentrate a minute longer and play mechanics better. I think players who are not able to play 100% of theoretical dps are better served by more stamina that raid gear has over benthic.