Should Blizzard only make dungeons and raids?

[Redroniksre]

to some degree i agree. but packed into endless grind shit, a million quests and competing with instanced PvE, so we all have to do ALL of it, for being competitive ? NO THX.

assume a pvp player would also gain best pvp gear from raids, how pissed will they be ? assume someone tells you that your hard version of your mage tower can only be done, if you farm raids ? how pissed will you be ?

if outdoor stuff and instanced stuff is a completely separated thing and do not get gain from each other, or have a form of a lockout system, like a cap in some form, or whatever, then yes, i would like it. otherwise its way too much and no thx, not more of pve shit i HAVE to do, if i want to max my char to some degree.

wow was always about gear hunting and upgrading and progression. if i derail that core of the game that much into infinity, ppl will either loose interest and the dopamin effect no longer works, or they will burn out, because wow is their new second job in life. both do not lead to success.

This is where i think Blizzard just needs to say fuck it. Top guilds like Method will always do whatever it takes to get that advantage, there is no competing with that unless you are top 20 at least. To force the rest of the game to be neutered to support the sub 5% of players is what is causing this problem of nothing being rewarding and world content not getting any worthwhile updates. While i can sympathize with not wanting to let your guildmates down, there is no such thing as competition when you are not in the top tier.

They need to focus on the world, make it fun regardless of the cost to the fringe players. Hell segregate PVP and Raids so that their gear and shit only works in those instances and vice versa, then there can be no "forcing" because you don't have to touch the Overworld to be competitive. That said it means you wouldnt be overpowered in the Overworld for being a Mythic raider either.

[Nebron]

It could be argued that its because all they do are dungeons and raids that anything else they try is what makes them unsuccessful.

Warfronts are not unsuccessful because people simply don't want to do them.
They are bad because objectively this is one of the worst concepts Blizzard created. Until the very late beta testing, there was many information about how it would work, and still, it was kind of shady. It just don't work well - the mix of PvP and A.I. PVE. It's super boring, people don't care about the gameplay, they just go there to work for they weekly rewards, most of them AFK, because it's too easy. Heroic Warfronts do not change anything. The problem is in the very concept, not in delivery of that content. It's purely wrong and had no possibility to work at all. Not to mention that it's a lot of resources wasted to do that type of content.

Islands Expeditions are at least faster and require some involvement. Mage Tower was a great concept. Challenge Modes were amazing, but were turned into Mythic+ which is not the same.

[SkagenRora]

It's not a road block. It's part of telling the story, the way they have always done in this game.

If you don't like the way the game is designed, then go play something else.
But do not lobby for the game to be changed to suit your preference.

Then why not allow people to complete this thing in M+ ? Normal, heroic or even Mythic +0 does nothing for your character and just boring, especially as caster since all the melee just nuke sheet before i get any spells away.. thus imo doing places on those settings is just a waste of time.. thus "Pointless roadblock"

Oh well, maby i'm just salty because Gameplay in BFA is overall ass, so dungeons just dosen't feel fun and just a slow time waste.

[Apexis]

Even if you despise WoW, there is no denying that WoW is by far the best game for raiding and dungeon content. There is no other game even remotely close to offering this content at the level Blizzard does.

So why doesn't Blizzard focus on its strengths?

- There is no one else in the market offering dungeons and raids like Blizzard. Why aren't they focusing on their strengths instead of attempting to do other filler content that other games do much better?
- They are losing players by spreading their resources thin over filler content like islands, Warfronts, zones, etc as the quality of dungeons and raids is worse due to fewer resources
- Zones are a very low return on investment as players just race through them to level
- Dungeons and raids are far more replayable than other content

What if next expansion Blizzard released no new zones but 25 dungeons? Blizzard could instead add more quests into existing zones to keep questers satisfied. It would bring players back and around for longer as they can't burn through content that takes 2 years to make in 1 levelling day.

No, what Blizzard needs to do is make this game a journey through the entire content they choose to make for an entire expansion. Wrath was the point in which, I literally started spamming dungeons. Blasting through them like there was no tomorrow, ever since it does not matter how difficult Blizzard have made various dungeons, I simply hate having to do them at all. The only time that I both queuing or even group for a dungeon is if there is a quest involved. Though once I start to level alts, the chances of me wanting to bother with a dungeon quest becomes remote.

If Blizzard ever entertained a dungeon and raid only concept with a few world quest, that scenario would have me quit the game after so many years of playing it. At some point even dungeons and raids have a point or otherwise the people would endlessly grind them or farm them for gear would not stop at some point. Once people have exhausted ever possible resource, mount, gear, pets, armor they simply stop playing the game or at least some of them do until the next content patch. The types of people that continue to play this game are people like me that do not endlessly dungeon grind or raid at all. We in fact keep the boat from entering and staying in port. If it was not for the everyday player, WoW simply would have never endured these many years. The quickest way to get people like me to leave would be to do as you suggest here.

No, Blizzard needs to go back to the model they started with, without all the nonsense, like leveling weapons. Example, take the difficulty of both Vanilla and TC and merry it with the refinement from Wrath forward. Keep the Mythic level content, make heroic the way heroic dungeons used to be were people can't just blow through them in ten minutes, maybe something on the line of the BC dungeons. I see people complaining on the official forms every single time BC dungeons come up for Timewalking. The fact they complain about actually having to follow the mechanics has many simply having fits to complete them. I get Mythic dungeons have in some respects have replaced the need to have heroic dungeons be what they wants were. Though the simple fact is, when Blizzard turned Wrath dungeons into AOE blast fest, they literally made the bulk of the people become lazy in their play style.

Leveling needs to go back to the way it was in Vanilla, that content needs to have a lasting state. Make world bosses epic again and give them the ability to drag them around the world like the bosses of old. Make the world itself alive and constantly useful past the leveling experience. Had Blizzard stated within the same bounds of Vanilla and BC content in Wrath forward. They would have not shed as many players over time.

A couple other things Blizzard needs to do is get rid of both CRZ's and cross-realming altogether. Make realms and servers matter, make being in a guild matter as well. Server integrity needs to come back to the game. I joined a high pop realm for a reason and that reason was not to see more people from other realm, which today I see far more of than I do people on my own realm. I have no problem with people having the ability to invite a friend from another realm to join up with while doing whatever they like together, that is fine. Once the people from other realms are no longer in the group, they simply disappear back to their own realm. Realms and guilds had far more control over their populations, even back in Wrath. Everyone knew who or what were the problem children and dealt with them accordingly.

LFD and the LFR are not what made this game or the community go in the tank. It was the people within the community that refused at some point to want to co-exist with one another. Course their has always been strife at some level in this game, but it got worse from the middle of Wrath forward today's content. Blizzard just needs to bring back the journey the started with in Vanilla and build back off those successes.

[Niwes]

Where the fuck do you see me say I want some solo game?

Moving away from designing the game around raiding, mythic dungeons and rated pvp means STOP TRYING TO BALANCE THE GAME AROUND THE 1% AND RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

Does that help make it clear?

I don't give two shits if Johnny "Toprated Arena Raider" McDungeoneer feels FORCED to do shit to be properly optimized.. fuck him.

ok. maybe i missunderstood. but what do you mean with „balance the game around 1%“ ? to WHAT do you wanna balance when you do not compare dps output in competitive pve environments like raids ? balance around WHAT else ??? i really do not get what you wanna get ?

- - - Updated - - -

This is where i think Blizzard just needs to say fuck it. Top guilds like Method will always do whatever it takes to get that advantage, there is no competing with that unless you are top 20 at least. To force the rest of the game to be neutered to support the sub 5% of players is what is causing this problem of nothing being rewarding and world content not getting any worthwhile updates. While i can sympathize with not wanting to let your guildmates down, there is no such thing as competition when you are not in the top tier.

They need to focus on the world, make it fun regardless of the cost to the fringe players. Hell segregate PVP and Raids so that their gear and shit only works in those instances and vice versa, then there can be no "forcing" because you don't have to touch the Overworld to be competitive. That said it means you wouldnt be overpowered in the Overworld for being a Mythic raider either.

yep, this would be a solution, but that doesnt work well with the concepts and the past of wow. wow is coming from a game having nothing than dungeons and raids in endgame. i assume blizz is way to conservative (since they always were) to make such big breaking changes.

but i agree that EVERYTHING, that do not force me in endless time consuming infinite repeating stuff, is a good thing.

[Sanguinerd]

ok. maybe i missunderstood. but what do you mean with „balance the game around 1%“ ? to WHAT do you wanna balance when you do not compare dps output in competitive pve environments like raids ? balance around WHAT else ??? i really do not get what you wanna get ?

I want them to forget about the entire competitive side of things, it's irrelevant and it's made classes what they are today - which is boring. A game like this shouldn't be about being competitive imo.

What I would like is imbalance for the sake of fun, I want people to play a class not because it does X% more damage, healing or whatever but because it's actually fun to play and has some flavour to it. I want class fantasy to mean something again and people to make clear choices in what they want between the 3 spec each class offers and not get f**ked everytime Blizzard makes changes because of people being competitive.


TL;DR, it shouldn't all come down to numbers and right now it does.

[Bildur]

It definitely was at the time.

MC was hastily put together, I think the only new mob type in the whole dungeon was ragnaros itself, everything else was a blown up version of something that existed somewhere else already. The whole raid is set in a lava cave with little to no detail (compared to the dungeons with lots of detail). Even the mechanics were simplistic and mostly just ment you needed to do them alot because of 40 people. The Tier 2 stufff (helmets) from onyxia didn't even have their own set textures for a while.

Blizzard suddenly had 2 million players at their hand (and they were still increasing) that payed them 15 bucks a month each and they were slowly hitting max level, they needed something to keep them busy to keep that going.

Yes exactly

Like I said I know it will never happen but as a now cassual player I'd like them go back to that formular to keep people playing. Make the world feel dangorous again, increase the ammount of XP needed to gain a level etc.

Also I still remember working for my first piece of epiq gear, my bracers or gloves I think it was: First I had to get the blue version to drop from a dungeon (or the 10man UBRS). Then going to Ironforge (I played a Dwarf) to get a quest that send me to WPL to kill a lot of ghosts for some stuff. Then back to Ironforge, then being sent to Winterspring to kill Giants, back to Ironforge, pay someone some hard-to-come-by gold for a thingy, then ... I can't remember the entire questline. But I do remember it took days, maybe weeks (I had an RL back then too) before I got my first piece of epiq ... and it felt pretty damn epiq to finally get it

[Casperite]

Even if you despise WoW, there is no denying that WoW is by far the best game for raiding and dungeon content. There is no other game even remotely close to offering this content at the level Blizzard does.

So why doesn't Blizzard focus on its strengths?

- There is no one else in the market offering dungeons and raids like Blizzard. Why aren't they focusing on their strengths instead of attempting to do other filler content that other games do much better?
- They are losing players by spreading their resources thin over filler content like islands, Warfronts, zones, etc as the quality of dungeons and raids is worse due to fewer resources
- Zones are a very low return on investment as players just race through them to level
- Dungeons and raids are far more replayable than other content

What if next expansion Blizzard released no new zones but 25 dungeons? Blizzard could instead add more quests into existing zones to keep questers satisfied. It would bring players back and around for longer as they can't burn through content that takes 2 years to make in 1 levelling day.

I think they should completely do away with raids and focus on 5 mans and all other content. Raids take a lot of resources for a very small portion of the playerbase.

[matrix123mko]

No. I play for questing zones. They have more story and don't force you to go as fast as the ninjapuller wants you to.

[Niwes]

I want them to forget about the entire competitive side of things, it's irrelevant and it's made classes what they are today - which is boring. A game like this shouldn't be about being competitive imo.

What I would like is imbalance for the sake of fun, I want people to play a class not because it does X% more damage, healing or whatever but because it's actually fun to play and has some flavour to it. I want class fantasy to mean something again and people to make clear choices in what they want between the 3 spec each class offers and not get f**ked everytime Blizzard makes changes because of people being competitive.


TL;DR, it shouldn't all come down to numbers and right now it does.

but it always will in any form of multiplayer gaming. how you wanna do this ? no one gonna play this game, if all you got from raids, questing, mage tower, pvp and dungeons is a cool color shirt on slot x. since this and any multiplayer game isnt about story, and just play through the story, you have to give em something else. either „win against others“ or „something to hunt (pve)“. and vanity items is nothing that ppl wanna hunt for 15 bugs a month. so, the only thing that works (i do not know any other) is let ppl hunt for more power aka progression. and at THIS point, you have no chance, regardless what you do, that it will not start min/maxing and competition.

so, i totally understand what you wanna say, but you offered zero examples HOW this should work. and i also see not how it will. maybe thats the reason why the game you describe not exists and why blizzard do what they do.

side note: once, in 2005, we had a sort of what you describe. it was wow classic, before addons like dmg meter etc. were created. so, if blizz stop giving access to that data for addon authors, maybe you get a bit of what you are looking for. but the outcry for that move will be that loud, that you and i will no longer be able to hear the cool class/spec specific sounds any longer. so...