School boy bullied to the point of committing suicide in front of other students.

[Moadar]

Revolutionary idea... stop giving kids mobile phones and unsupervised internet access. I know shocking.

This is the key right here. Letting the internet raise your kids will only lead to them mimicking the worst people.

[Kumorii]

Revolutionary idea... stop giving kids mobile phones and unsupervised internet access. I know shocking.

you think bullying is due to technology? No, bullying has been part of history for as long as schools have existed. Nothing will change either because parents believe their kids are angels and would never hurt someone....

[Doctor Amadeus]

There are a couple of schools of thought, on the one hand there are those that say bullying and confrontation is a part of life, children like all kids have to learn to deal with this, and while some bullying is to be expected, in should never be tolerated.

Then there is the thought process that no amount of bullying should be tolerated and that schools especially should take a proactive position, even before situations get to a point.

I am a believer in the latter, however, here is the crux, everyone I know including myself has gone through this kind of thing, some have it worse than others. But the majority of people never commit suicide. Part of the problem especially with suicide is that it isn't typically bullying that causes it, nor is it something that happens over night. And no, I am not suggesting it's always a result of people not caring or being loving enough either.

The problem is things like this can be tough to predict, and honestly those that really want to take their own lives in the end, eventually reach that point after they have finally decided.

Bottom line

#1: Bullying should be discouraged and there should be a proactive zero tolerance policy for it. Take it out of the hands of children and place that burden on the institution to provide the safe learning environment.

#2: Schools should have qualified psychologist that if and eventually when issues come up as they will, schools have to tools to spot certain behaviors so as they get the attention they deserve.

Short of that, and I am not saying the above isn't done already some places, I just think it's important for aims to be effective.

[Lodreh]

you think bullying is due to technology? No, bullying has been part of history for as long as schools have existed. Nothing will change either because parents believe their kids are angels and would never hurt someone....

If the school has no record of it then it was probably happening online... cut the voice off at the source and problem solved. People will still be shit but you don't have to let your child hear it.

[Techno-Druid]

I wouldn't neccesarily put the blame on the parents of the bullies entirely. Despite the instincts of certain types of people, teens can and should be held accountable for the consequences of their actions.

With that said, I'm sure there's a lot to this story that's not being talked about. There's a serious epidemic of mental health issues facing young people and we need to take steps as a society to solve it.

[Independent voter]

RIP.

There was that "things get better campaign" were famous gays told gay teens that things get better, so that they wouldn't commit suicide.

I think such a campaign might've helped this guy too.

[Techno-Druid]

#1: Bullying should be discouraged and there should be a proactive zero tolerance policy for it. Take it out of the hands of children and place that burden on the institution to provide the safe learning environment.

I agree that bullying should not be tolerated, but I think a lot of these zero tolerance rules can backfire (anecdotally), especially when you have scenarios like students being punished for practicing self-defense. Bullies should be punished, but the rules have to understand context or else you'll only create an environment where kids are exclusively dependent on adults.

There needs to be a balance between stepping back and letting young people sort issues out while also taking steps to provide a safe space for kids. If we don't, then you run the risk of those children growing up and not being able to properly negotiate and stand up for themselves.

[Socialhealer]

Wow, Extremely Sad. I would more than likely kill myself as a parent, if anything like that ever happened to my child.

Don't give up so easily, at least track down the children who bullied your child and caused their death and gut them like a pig.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I agree that bullying should not be tolerated, but I think a lot of these zero tolerance rules can backfire (anecdotally), especially when you have scenarios like students being punished for practicing self-defense. Bullies should be punished, but the rules have to understand context or else you'll only create an environment where kids are exclusively dependent on adults.

There needs to be a balance between stepping back and letting young people sort issues out while also taking steps to provide a safe space for kids. If we don't, then you run the risk of those children growing up and not being able to properly negotiate and stand up for themselves.

Well like anything context is important, self defense isn't really a matter of perspective. If someone is being attacked they have the right to defend themselves. Being in security and doing so for a while being able to identify the difference is important.

As for stepping back and letting kid sort things out, I can't agree. Bullying isn't about a disagreement, it's about one person deciding to encroach on the boundaries of another.

[Techno-Druid]

Well like anything context is important, self defense isn't really a matter of perspective. If someone is being attacked they have the right to defend themselves. Being in security and doing so for a while being able to identify the difference is important.

As for stepping back and letting kid sort things out, I can't agree. Bullying isn't about a disagreement, it's about one person deciding to encroach on the boundaries of another.

I'm not saying we should let them fight it out, but schools should try and facilitate some level of dialogue between the bully and kid being bullied (under adult supervision) and help them decide on a solution on their own with adult guidance.

But I mean obviously there should be limits to this, not all bullying is equal, but in general, it's better to try and guide kids to do things rather than to do it for them. Brains are like immune systems in that they need to be challenged to develop properly, a little bit of cortisol (stress hormone) in kids can be beneficial long term because it builds resistance to future stress and teaches them how to handle situations in the future.

[Kardagh]

What about the parents of the bullies? They are the ones that should raise their children, not the school! Those parents need to be held accountable. Prison is too easy, their children should be taken away and they themselves sterilized, as it's painfully obvious that they can't raise children properly.

Exactly this. The appalling behaviour comes from a lack of discipline instilled at home. As a teacher myself it's pretty clear and obvious which kids come from broken households by their behaviour. These days we're expected to be both teacher, counsellor and parent to the child. Teachers have /no/ control over kids due to there being no deter rant to bad behaviour and the kids know it because neither do the parents.

Like parents have control of how their children behave in school.

This is the feckless type of attitude that really has caused the root of most behavioural disorders with kids. Lazy, inept "adults" (screeching millennials more like) who pass the buck to the already overburdened, under-resourced and hyper-sanitised education environments.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I'm not saying we should let them fight it out, but schools should try and facilitate some level of dialogue between the bully and kid being bullied (under adult supervision) and help them decide on a solution on their own with adult guidance.

No I am going to completely disagree with you. If I am bullying you as an example, and you want me to leave you the hell alone, we don't need to have a dialogue why. It shouldn't be up to you or anyone to be owed that.

But I mean obviously there should be limits to this, not all bullying is equal, but in general, it's better to try and guide kids to do things rather than to do it for them. Brains are like immune systems in that they need to be challenged to develop properly, a little bit of cortisol (stress hormone) in kids can be beneficial long term because it builds resistance to future stress and teaches them how to handle situations in the future.

No all bullying is equal and it is complete shit to do it, there is nothing scientific or otherwise to justify such nonsense, which is probably a big reason why schools have the issues they do. Because some honestly think others have the right to infringe on others who made a choice not to participate or engage.

A kid going to school, and parents sending their child to be educated shouldn't need to be worried about that kind crap.

Bullying only helps teach people that on some level it is ok to force yourself on other people despite reasonable protest to be left alone.

[Captain N]

Unfortunately not the first time this has happened. The Pearl Jam Song Jeremy is also about a kid doing the same thing.

[Techno-Druid]

No I am going to completely disagree with you. If I am bullying you as an example, and you want me to leave you the hell alone, we don't need to have a dialogue why. It shouldn't be up to you or anyone to be owed that.

No all bullying is equal and it is complete shit to do it, there is nothing scientific or otherwise to justify such nonsense, which is probably a big reason why schools have the issues they do.

I refuse to believe that someone can be that morally simplistic, to believe that all forms of bullying are equally detrimental and always have to be handled by the teachers, parents and administrators. Does that mean they have to step back? No, but they need to contextualize these things and talk to these kids about it.

It's pretty non-controversial that overparenting can be detrimental to a child's psychological development.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0628110215.htm

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-10485172.html

This isn't about letting the lunatics run the asylum, it's working with kids instead of working for them. There has to be some regulation and oversight, but bullying is ultimately a conflict between the bully and the bullied, not the parents or teachers.

Now some people are just assholes, but usually people do not bully other people for pure shits and giggles. Not all bullies have the stereotypical alcohol, abusive stepdad, but they may be just as disturbed as the people they are bullying and should be given a chance to voice their opinion, understand the full effects of their bullying and face consequences (which might not be purely negative, like therapy)

Because some honestly think others have the right to infringe on others who made a choice not to participate or engage.

That is true, people can be assholes.

[Themius]

RIP.

There was that "things get better campaign" were famous gays told gay teens that things get better, so that they wouldn't commit suicide.

I think such a campaign might've helped this guy too.

4 years is a long time for a teen, so saying things get better far in the future is not an amazing message and was met with criticism.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I refuse to believe that someone can be that morally simplistic, to believe that all forms of bullying are equally detrimental and always have to be handled by the teachers, parents and administrators. Does that mean they have to step back? No, but they need to contextualize these things and talk to these kids about it.

So would it be "Your" premise that some form of torture are good?

I mean since you know people although rarely have come out of them sometimes enlightened and better attuned to the suffering of others.

How about people who have been in horrific accidents where they nearly lose their life or limbs, does that some how contribute a pound of flesh to whatever concept you believe?

It's pretty non-controversial that overparenting can be detrimental to a child's psychological development.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0628110215.htm

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-10485172.html

None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and applying that sometimes good can come from bad doesn't really cover that we do all we can't to prevent the bad.

Such as I mentioned above.

This isn't about letting the lunatics run the asylum, it's working with kids instead of working for them. There has to be some regulation and oversight, but bullying is ultimately a conflict between the bully and the bullied, not the parents or teachers.

That's exactly what this is like. Kind of like Star Trek TOS you know aliens abduct humans, put them cages experiment on what is good for them even though they are basically slaves.

No, dude, bullying isn't healthy, it isn't a great thing, and despite the ignorant bullshit of "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" nonsense. The truth is no amount of bullying is ok or should be tolerable despite not being able to maybe eliminate it totally.

We sure as hell should try. And if we did actually manage to live in a society where human beings had an appreciation for exactly how much they don't like to be bullied or abused, they are likely to cultivate and encourage that for themselves and others.

Just like those who are allowed to be bullied, or tortured to whatever degree someone else find permissible because it feels it's for good learning. In my opinion I think it is exactly that which creates possible school shooters and those who commit suicide.

People who look at the world and see no value because nobody seems to show any value in them, or at least not in a way that isn't all show and little substance. If you are being bullied as I said, you just want it to stop. You shouldn't be obligated to deal with it especially when a child is just going to school.

Now some people are just assholes, but usually people do not bully other people for pure shits and giggles. Not all bullies have the stereotypical alcohol, abusive stepdad, but they may be just as disturbed as the people they are bullying and should be given a chance to voice their opinion, understand the full effects of their bullying and face consequences (which might not be purely negative, like therapy)
That is true, people can be assholes.

No bullying is never good, there is no point that is ok.

Just like murder, lying, physical assault. There is no amount of it that is ok despite some of the experiences others used as it being something they grew from.


Any there is no science or psychology that suggest otherwise except maybe by quack and pseudo science sadist. If a person enjoys pain they can pay the privilege to experience it themselves.

Otherwise kids should be left the hell alone to learn the basics of scholastic learning. Not some fucked up psychological social experiment.

[Wilfire]

Schools need to clean up their act and expel bullies early / send them to penal colonies. A few shitheads shouldn't ruin school for the rest of normal, well-adjusted kids who are there to study and have fun.

[Dougie Cooper]

Which shows your parents where responsible and did the right thing. If kids bully others, it is a reflection on their upbringing and guidance (or lack of ) from their parents. Bullying others is something I would have never tolerated from our kids.

Definitely agree with you there, I'm eternally grateful to my parents for putting me through private school. I think there's a lot of parents out there who just aren't willing to believe that their child would ever do something wrong; my dad's had to deal with that frequently as a teacher when giving out less than stellar grades to his students.

[Techno-Druid]

So would it be "Your" premise that some form of torture are good?

I mean since you know people although rarely have come out of them sometimes enlightened and better attuned to the suffering of others.

How about people who have been in horrific accidents where they nearly lose their life or limbs, does that some how contribute a pound of flesh to whatever concept you believe?



None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about and applying that sometimes good can come from bad doesn't really cover that we do all we can't to prevent the bad.

Such as I mentioned above.



That's exactly what this is like. Kind of like Star Trek TOS you know aliens abduct humans, put them cages experiment on what is good for them even though they are basically slaves.

No, dude, bullying isn't healthy, it isn't a great thing, and despite the ignorant bullshit of "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" nonsense. The truth is no amount of bullying is ok or should be tolerable despite not being able to maybe eliminate it totally.

We sure as hell should try. And if we did actually manage to live in a society where human beings had an appreciation for exactly how much they don't like to be bullied or abused, they are likely to cultivate and encourage that for themselves and others.

Just like those who are allowed to be bullied, or tortured to whatever degree someone else find permissible because it feels it's for good learning. In my opinion I think it is exactly that which creates possible school shooters and those who commit suicide.

People who look at the world and see no value because nobody seems to show any value in them, or at least not in a way that isn't all show and little substance. If you are being bullied as I said, you just want it to stop. You shouldn't be obligated to deal with it especially when a child is just going to school.





No bullying is never good, there is no point that is ok.

Just like murder, lying, physical assault. There is no amount of it that is ok despite some of the experiences others used as it being something they grew from.


Any there is no science or psychology that suggest otherwise except maybe by quack and pseudo science sadist. If a person enjoys pain they can pay the privilege to experience it themselves.

Otherwise kids should be left the hell alone to learn the basics of scholastic learning. Not some fucked up psychological social experiment.

My original point is that zero tolerance policies can backfire as they punish the person being bullied if they defend themselves, like getting suspended for punching back.

[LuciusVorenus]

Like parents have control of how their children behave in school.

My father did. He was military. He made it clear that if I embarrassed him by misbehaving when he wasn't around, he would make me wish I was dead. Put simply, I was terrified of him.

It worked . I never crossed him.