Heavily armed dude arrested by cops at Missouri Walmart

[kasuke06]

soooo... the cops unjustly hassled and arrested a man who was within his legal rights? Can't wait for the riots to start over this grave injustice.

[Ihavewaffles]

Making a terrorist threat in the second degree.
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/09/74976...rt-in-missouri

The charges from the prosecutor's office.
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...REYCHENKO.html

So. Asking if the store allows open carry, if they believe in the constitution now is a "terrorist threat"?

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If he went in there for the express purpose of scaring people and causing a panic because he thought it would make for a good laugh...it's very much related.

No it isn't. What he did was legal, just cuz u panic due to some incidents in the us lately, doesn't mean u can arrest him just cuz u loose ur shit n cry wolf. Guy is unrelated to those shootings, n filming urself with open carry isn't new nor is it constrained by unrelated incidents.

Ur just trying to work around ur constitution with emotions, either change the law or don't n if not, then don't arrest people following laws cuz of mob mentality....

One has to look at things from all angles, a real slippery slope otherwise..

[ohtlmtlm]

yup
the city of Tigard, OR has multiple riot response vehicles, even tho as far as I'm aware there hasn't been a city wide riot since my dad moved here 10 years ago. Tigard is a suberb, riots happen in major cities, you know like portland, 10 minutes away on transit.....

[shadowmouse]

No it isn't. What he did was legal, just cuz u panic due to some incidents in the us lately, doesn't mean u can arrest him just cuz u loose ur shit n cry wolf.

Actually, it does.

The consequences he faces are not a reflection of how Missouri -- an open carry state -- respects the Second Amendment, prosecuting attorney Dan Patterson said in a statement.

"Missouri protects the right to open carry a firearm, but that right does not allow an individual to act in a reckless and criminal manner, endangering other citizens," Patterson said. "As Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes famously explained, 'The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man ... falsely shouting fire in a theater, causing a panic.'"

Police Lt. Mike Lucas said he did indeed cause a panic.
"His intent was not to cause peace or comfort to anybody that was in the business," Lucas said. "In fact, he's lucky to be alive still, to be honest."

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/10/u...ent/index.html

The Holmes quote from Schenck v. United States was part of the case that gave us a "clear and present danger" test for limits on the 1st Amendment. Another quote from the same case is: "Words which, ordinarily and in many places, would be within the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment may become subject to prohibition when of such a nature and used in such circumstances as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils which Congress has a right to prevent. The character of every act depends upon the circumstances in which it is done."

You have to look at the whole picture, he didn't just walk in as an open carry exercise -- he walked in to a location that would be associated with mass shootings while also dressed as a threat, with body armor and other gear. He intended to cause panic. We have seen other situations this week where something like the sound of a backfire provoked a panic, and panic in crowded places should reasonably be known to be associated with a risk of injury. Even if compared to the current 1st Amendment test from Brandenburg v. Ohio, with its focus on imminent lawless action, he created a risk that somebody might draw and fire their own weapon right there, while he was performing his so-called social experiment. In fact, that is more or less what happened except the person who held him for the police stayed cool and didn't go into guns blazing Rambo mode.

[zhero]

If he went in there for the express purpose of scaring people and causing a panic because he thought it would make for a good laugh...it's very much related.

only if he ran around shouting "bang, bang"

[TEHPALLYTANK]

So. Asking if the store allows open carry, if they believe in the constitution now is a "terrorist threat"?

He didn't ask anyone at the store if they allowed open carry, he walked into the store while heavily armed. Actions are not questions.

If he had gone in the store without the guns, and asked of the store if they would allow him to shop while toting around two loaded weapons, that would have been "asking if the store allows open carry".

[Noradin]

Read through the charges, an officer got into a car accident while responding to the event.

What has this part got to do with anything?

[mvaliz]

No it isn't. What he did was legal,

Hey, you can prove that point of yours! Do us a favor and head to a USA Airport and shout "BOMB!!" repeatedly! When they come to arrest you, explain that you're within your legal rights as a citizen. They (and the courts) will totally understand! ^_^

.... >_<

[TEHPALLYTANK]

What has this part got to do with anything?

Politics, the DA will look better for making the charges stick considering that accident was a result of a police officer responding to the incident. It is easy to argue that car accident wouldn't have occurred at all if the dumbass hadn't caused a panic at that Walmart.

I haven't checked to be certain, but it is likely that this DA is an elected official.

[Noradin]

Politics, the DA will look better for making the charges stick considering that accident was a result of a police officer responding to the incident. It is easy to argue that car accident wouldn't have occurred at all if the dumbass hadn't caused a panic at that Walmart.

One could just as well argue that the officer who got into the accident could have had it elsewhere and caused the death of a few kids if not for this dumbass.
Does that mean we should hand him a medal?

[Zython]

John Crawford III was murdered for holding a BB gun he had purchased at the Walmart he was killed at. Just an FYI.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

You could just as well argue that the officer who got into the accident could have had it elsewhere and caused the death of a few kids if not for this dumbass.
Does that mean we should hand him a medal?

You asked a question, I answered it. If you're just going to be hostile when people answer your questions in good faith, don't be surprised if people become less inclined to answer you in the future.

[s_bushido]

Hey, you can prove that point of yours! Do us a favor and head to a USA Airport and shout "BOMB!!" repeatedly! When they come to arrest you, explain that you're within your legal rights as a citizen. They (and the courts) will totally understand! ^_^

.... >_<

This analogy would only work if the state that airport was in passed laws specifically allowing people to shout "BOMB!!!" in places like that. If they want to be a state that allows people to openly carry firearms, they're not going to get very far if they then go around arresting people who openly carry firearms.

[Noradin]

You asked a question, I answered it. If you're just going to be hostile when people answer your questions in good faith, don't be surprised if people become less inclined to answer you in the future.

This was a general you, not addressed at you personally and not meant as an attack on you.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Frolk]

soooo... the cops unjustly hassled and arrested a man who was within his legal rights? Can't wait for the riots to start over this grave injustice.

This kind of attitude is why the shootings arnt gonna stop anytime soon.

[kasuke06]

This kind of attitude is why the shootings arnt gonna stop anytime soon.

got it, lock people up for poor taste, when are we going to arrest the thugs with batons and firebombs in antifa?

[Xanjori]

got it, lock people up for poor taste, when are we going to arrest the thugs with batons and firebombs in antifa?

I mean are you really suggesting people with firebombs don't get arrested? That's an attempt at a fucking argument nowadays? Fucking hell.

[s_bushido]

I mean are you really suggesting people with firebombs don't get arrested? That's an attempt at a fucking argument nowadays? Fucking hell.

You can't really expect much more from the people who live in constant terror of the dreaded ANTIFA.

[kasuke06]

You can't really expect much more from the people who live in constant terror of the dreaded ANTIFA.

well, they are a terrorist group, aiming to spread their views through violence and fear thereof. Sorry that I'll call a spade a spade?

[Queen of Hamsters]

I mean are you really suggesting people with firebombs don't get arrested? That's an attempt at a fucking argument nowadays? Fucking hell.

Hey, they might be gaslighting left right and center, but nobody said they're doing a very intellectual effort at it.