No Ret Pallies

[clavius]

And what you're doing now is showing that you haven't paid any attention to my argument. Nice job. Why does loot matter in a game where you know it's going to be made obsolete any more than a game where you know there is a finite BiS? If anything it actually means more in the game where it stays BiS forever.

Also, no one is preventing anyone from actually playing the game. People will have all the opportunities in the world to either be as successful as they possibly can as a Ret Paladin, but the point is that it will be a long hard road with a comparatively tiny payout at the end. It's important that people know that before they start because leveling to 60 is a huge time investment.

Classic ends on tier 3. That's it. Tanks are an exception but other than that, it absolutely does not matter what loot you get along the way to tier 3 unless you aim for server first kills. Yes, you are right to tell people that they are not going to do well mathematically but it is not an argument against what class/spec people should play, atleast for me Classic is not about math.

EDIT: also I apologise you for getting carried away in this discussion but it's just that I've played the game through naxx so many times that I want to encourage people to just go for it instead of listening to what they should/should not do.

[Wewlad]

I love how people completely ignore progress made on Ret paladins and continue targeting them as though they're the exact same as they were 2005. You know when Consecration wasn't really realized as a viable part of their rotation nowadays? When Spelladin, a spec proven to be quite capable with MCP and double-dipping consumables, wasn't really locked down until this year?

[jackofwind]

I love how people completely ignore progress made on Ret paladins and continue targeting them as though they're the exact same as they were 2005. You know when Consecration wasn't really realized as a viable part of their rotation nowadays? When Spelladin, a spec proven to be quite capable with MCP and double-dipping consumables, wasn't really locked down until this year?

People talking about wanting to play Ret are not generally talking about playing a Spelladin. Certainly not all the people in this thread talking about "one-shotting" people with Reckoning and swinging 2 handers in raids.

[Wewlad]

People talking about wanting to play Ret are not generally talking about playing a Spelladin. Certainly not all the people in this thread talking about "one-shotting" people with Reckoning and swinging 2 handers in raids.

AP Ret uses Consecration now unlike what people did in Vanilla (which was hardly anything because something people don't realize is that back then most people took the path of least resistance rather than theorycraft niche specs) though, yes, people should look into Spelladin over AP Ret as I am unless they're Esfand.

[gaymer77]

You don't outright spam fire spells. You fill gaps where you cant use a full cast frost bolt with scorches or fire blasts. Same if you have to move. It adds up and can be the difference between being the top dps mage or bottom on your MC run. If you think I'm wrong look at legacy logs, It will be the same in Classic.

Again I bring up the stupidity of using fire spell fillers on bosses that are either immune or have high fire resistance (meaning severely reduced fire damage). Scorch was a low damage dealing spell that had a cast time (wasn't castable while moving in vanilla). Even if you put aside the fact that most bosses were either 100% immune to fire spells or had a high resistance, being a frost mage casting fire spells is rediculous. Your fire spells don't get the increased crit chance, increased range (fire blast has a 20 yard range or 26 if you put points into the fire tree for it & scorch has a 30 yard range untalented or 36 if you pick up the fire talent), lower threat, or increased damage done that your frost spell damages would provide.

FYI if you'd like to provide some vanilla logs that shows spells used and the damage they did, I'd move than love to see them so you can prove me wrong (from my first hand experience raiding in vanilla). The only logs you can find online now are either from the anniversary MC event showing way more damage done or they are logs that only show overall damage done for each player that boss. I'd love for you to prove me wrong with some logs of break downs of each fight with a break down of spells used during the fights.....

- - - Updated - - -

I played mage for 8 years, including doing MC as fire. It's not hard to dip 5 points in frost for imp frostbolt and use that during rag/ony/whichever other ones are immune.

So be a fire mage in MC and spend 5 points in frostbolt to reduce the cast time for bosses that are immune/high restist fire spells while losing out on all the other perks of the deep frost tree? So you'd give up doubling your crit damage, reducing your threat, chance to hit with frost spells, reducing mana cost, and reducing the range of your frost spells to go with a spec that your main spells put dots on the target (meaning other more important dots/debuffs from the raid are taken up). Yes sounds like the perfect thing to do....

[TigTone]

AP Ret uses Consecration now unlike what people did in Vanilla (which was hardly anything because something people don't realize is that back then most people took the path of least resistance rather than theorycraft niche specs) though, yes, people should look into Spelladin over AP Ret as I am unless they're Esfand.

Where can I find spelladin info?

[Ihsatakar]

As a holy paladin I'll never invite a ret paladin to a group I'm in charge of.

[Mukind]

Where can I find spelladin info?

it's no good

there were some patches where items have very nice spellpower ratios so you could do a shit ton of passive aoe damage farming. But beyond that a "spelladin" is just a holy paladin.

You will be a spelladin once you get T2 just by virtue of the gear that will be pvp bis.

by 1.12 a lot of the passive mage damage aoe items spell power ratios have been enrfed into the ground.

[TigTone]

it's no good

there were some patches where items have very nice spellpower ratios so you could do a shit ton of passive aoe damage farming. But beyond that a "spelladin" is just a holy paladin.

You will be a spelladin once you get T2 just by virtue of the gear that will be pvp bis.

by 1.12 a lot of the passive mage damage aoe items spell power ratios have been enrfed into the ground.

Ahh I see, I’ll just have to level an alt for farming.

[Wewlad]

Ahh I see, I’ll just have to level an alt for farming.

Ignore that. He is completely missing everything figured out this very year. The premise of modern Spelladin is completely different to simply "stacking spellpower".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZKFYEI9m0

A general video recap on it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGG...rXcv3Xqbk6fZug

The guy mainly responsible for getting it together.

Spelladin relies on using Manual Crowd Pummelers because the Seal of Righteosness damage remains static based off the MCP's original speed despite the attack speed use function. This has been proven true in the Classic beta: https://streamable.com/bi3xa

Pro is that you don't conflict for gear nearly as much, and can do rather good damage. Con is that you have to get a lot of consumables and farm MCPs to hell, so it's definitely a niche playstyle.

[TigTone]

Ignore that. He is completely missing everything figured out this very year. The premise of modern Spelladin is completely different to simply "stacking spellpower".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZKFYEI9m0

A general video recap on it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGG...rXcv3Xqbk6fZug


The guy mainly responsible for getting it together.

Spelladin relies on using Manual Crowd Pummelers because the Seal of Righteosness damage remains static based off the MCP's original speed despite the attack speed use function. This has been proven true in the Classic beta: https://streamable.com/bi3xa

Pro is that you don't conflict for gear nearly as much, and can do rather good damage. Con is that you have to get a lot of consumables and farm MCPs to hell, so it's definitely a niche playstyle.

It’s will be a fun thing to try out later down the line.

[Mukind]

It’s will be a fun thing to try out later down the line.

no dude i play on p servers trust me lol

you're just a holy paladin. U get divine favor? Ur a hpala

im a p server paladin god the other guy likes esfand

[Khain]

Raids from this new classic will be so easy for the current player base that will not even matter what class you bring, it's also a 40 man, really hard to fill only with rogue/warrior/mage.

[ryklin]

never underestimate raw dps checks and people's ability to not be too great at the class they play Khain,

Hell, this whole current raid tier isnt very interesting mechanically beyond court and Azshara, most of it is really just a dps check. That most guild's outside the top 200 or so are really struggling with, but it's getting better with time. But I fully expect bosses like patchwerk and Vael to do a number on a lot of groups.

Other things though like picking up adds, los'ing BWL dragon bosses, etc. I expect to be really trivial for old players now though.

[Jinpachi]

Just FYI in case any newbies are coming to classic or returning vanilla people hoping this time "it will be different". It won't be. Ret pallies will still not be allowed in 5 mans and definitely won't get any raid spots. Just be warned if you intent to spec ret be prepared to play solo. You will also not be appreciated Q'ing into BGs, and definitely won't be getting into any premades.

Quit talking.

[Mukind]

Didn't someone report that SoR didn't proc things on Classic? If that ends up not being a bug and just the way Classic actually was wouldn't that just be the end for spelladin?

that is not a spelladin

that's just a ret pala....

people trying to redfine spelladin

stop

[Mukind]

Spelladin uses SoR's ability to proc things in order to achieve a high proc rate on multiple things and uses spell damage to scale the procs. Shockadin is the holy spec that focused mostly on bursting in PvP with Holy Shock.

no spelladin is just getting your spellpower up and popping active trinkets for dmg + divine favor and auto critting with spell shock.

you're trying to redfine it

what you're describing is the optimum way to play what we would call ret. You're melee dps

[Mukind]

The Holy Shock burst build is named Shockadin not Spelladin.

Here's how we can know you're wrong. Go to youtube and search "Shockadin PvP" and "Spelladin PvP". It'll be rather obvious which one is getting you more hits for that type of PvP build.

whatever

it's ret

not spelladin

and it's not sustainable no1 is gonna farm enough pummelers to do taht on trash. 100% useless

same with feral dps

[Swnem]

Ah... the old auto-attack seal of casino. You guys are gonna love that! xD

I'm glad i am not touching classic.

[Mukind]

The specs need different names because they're completely different in how they build. Ret means the traditional build where gear more like a warrior and focus on Seal of Command. Spelladin is when you focus on spell damage to scale a bunch of procs and give up the slow 2hander in favor of hitting faster so that you get more procs.

It's no different from making a distinction between Combat Swords and Combat Daggers for rogues.

Nobody would waste pummelers on trash but they will farm them to use against bosses.

No it's just the optimum ret build

Still not viable