World First Ragnaros and Onyxia Kill on Classic by APES - Gehennas EU

[tylenol]

Everyone was dumb back then

Imaging holding onto the memory of how "hardcore" you were because you played vanilla (even if you didn't raid) because it took months to get to 60 and half a year to clear a raid only to have it come crashing down after 5 days, WoW was casual compared to the other MMOs of the time

[Queen of Hamsters]

1) They didn't do it with a full team of 60's, to the crowd going "Oh but teh power creep!!".
2) They one-shot the entire thing.
3. They will tackle every raid coming along from now on prepared and with the mentality of 2019 gamers, so don't hitch your bets on BWL or Naxx taking any longer. 1st day clear is very likely.

Imagine, all of this was said countless times over the past 12-or-so years that this content has been tooted as "teh most hardcore, most difficult, highest tuned"...
Am loving the change in tune however, can't deny that. Coats turn faster in Classic, it would seem.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

So much malice over something that others than you like. It's like listening to a pole vaulter complaining about high jumpers and how easy they have it cause they aren't doing it with a giant stick. Gz for anyone participating or enjoying following this race.

[ryjkur]

Yes they maybe had greens/blues, but they have played vanilla so long they probably do same damage with blues than most raiders with full naxx gear.

[Adviceanon]

Actually, almost every retail player said it could be done as they were trying to stress how easy Vanilla is compared to Retail in terms of raiding and mechanics. Most Classic supporters tried stating that it couldn’t be done because PS players had no idea what Vanilla was really like and how much harder it is than a PS with their wrong numbers.

That kind of sounds like a bogey man to me. There are only retail players and pserver players. Classic supporters would majorly be of the pservers group for obvious reasons and we knew what was going to happen. Only retail players could lack the foresite to see this outcome.

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1) They didn't do it with a full team of 60's, to the crowd going "Oh but teh power creep!!".
2) They one-shot the entire thing.
3. They will tackle every raid coming along from now on prepared and with the mentality of 2019 gamers, so don't hitch your bets on BWL or Naxx taking any longer. 1st day clear is very likely.

Imagine, all of this was said countless times over the past 12-or-so years that this content has been tooted as "teh most hardcore, most difficult, highest tuned"...
Am loving the change in tune however, can't deny that. Coats turn faster in Classic, it would seem.

What are you arguing?

[Tang0]

How? /10ch

I will give you an easy comparison. Exactly abouth the thing that happens in this thread and many others.

Imagine I'm much older than you, which shouldn't be that hard. Many many years ago i learned how to ride a bike. By myself, 2 wheels, through trial and error. Took me some time. ANd then you hear me talk to my peers about how challenging it was to learn how to ride a bike.

Young you, hearing that, thinks bike are cool. You want to learn to ride one as well. So you go and ask your mom and she buys you a bike. But yours is shiny and brand new. It doesn't have a rusty chain like mine did, it's got many years of engineering put into it's ergonomics, it's tires don't have holes you don't ride in flipflops and you don't have to ride on fucking sand. Oh, yours also has a pair of training wheels, because it's easier to learn to ride a bike with training wheels.

So you hop onto your shiny new bike and you start riding on first try. You fucking nailed it, it's so simple. And the next time i mention how challenging it was to learn to ride a bike you will roll your eyes at a filthy noob like me. Cause it was super easy.

On the subject of itemization you can compare any set of any rarity from early vanilla to the same classic set. The difference should be apparent. And that doesn't count all the hit% nerfs for melee and spell, resistance rework etc.

[DarkBlade6]

I love Vanilla, I played for a long time on Blizz like private server and I knew this was gonna happen, the only difficult raid in vanilla is Naxx and its about on par with an Heroic raid nowadays, the rest is between LFR and Normal.

[Makabreska]

Am loving the change in tune however, can't deny that. Coats turn faster in Classic, it would seem.

Ye, excuses been flying in entire day, one more dumb than another.

[IIamaKing]

I will give you an easy comparison. Exactly abouth the thing that happens in this thread and many others.

Imagine I'm much older than you, which shouldn't be that hard. Many many years ago i learned how to ride a bike. By myself, 2 wheels, through trial and error. Took me some time. ANd then you hear me talk to my peers about how challenging it was to learn how to ride a bike.

Young you, hearing that, thinks bike are cool. You want to learn to ride one as well. So you go and ask your mom and she buys you a bike. But yours is shiny and brand new. It doesn't have a rusty chain like mine did, it's got many years of engineering put into it's ergonomics, it's tires don't have holes you don't ride in flipflops and you don't have to ride on fucking sand. Oh, yours also has a pair of training wheels, because it's easier to learn to ride a bike with training wheels.

So you hop onto your shiny new bike and you start riding on first try. You fucking nailed it, it's so simple. And the next time i mention how challenging it was to learn to ride a bike you will roll your eyes at a filthy noob like me. Cause it was super easy.

On the subject of itemization you can compare any set of any rarity from early vanilla to the same classic set. The difference should be apparent. And that doesn't count all the hit% nerfs for melee and spell, resistance rework etc.

You Say itemization, then explain experience and offer nothing about itemization.

Its been 13-15 years since I played vanilla, can you cite SPECIFIC examples of loot itemization being different in Classic opposed to Retail Vanilla?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Only retail players could lack the foresite to see this outcome.

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What are you arguing?

A) "Only retail players", lol. Talk about the new boogeyman. Same as how "rEtAil PlAyErS" made the addon that was literally available in Vanilla to "sabotage Classic".

More like, former players/haters of Retail listening to content creators spewing BS, were saying how Classic would be the pinnacle of challenge. Retail players were the ones telling them how wrong they were, and Pserver players were busy doing their thing since what happens on Retail forums don't concern them.

B) What am I arguing? Exactly what I said. Read it again if anything's unclear I guess?

[Kaver]

I will give you an easy comparison. Exactly abouth the thing that happens in this thread and many others.

Imagine I'm much older than you, which shouldn't be that hard. Many many years ago i learned how to ride a bike. By myself, 2 wheels, through trial and error. Took me some time. ANd then you hear me talk to my peers about how challenging it was to learn how to ride a bike.

Young you, hearing that, thinks bike are cool. You want to learn to ride one as well. So you go and ask your mom and she buys you a bike. But yours is shiny and brand new. It doesn't have a rusty chain like mine did, it's got many years of engineering put into it's ergonomics, it's tires don't have holes you don't ride in flipflops and you don't have to ride on fucking sand. Oh, yours also has a pair of training wheels, because it's easier to learn to ride a bike with training wheels.

So you hop onto your shiny new bike and you start riding on first try. You fucking nailed it, it's so simple. And the next time i mention how challenging it was to learn to ride a bike you will roll your eyes at a filthy noob like me. Cause it was super easy.

On the subject of itemization you can compare any set of any rarity from early vanilla to the same classic set. The difference should be apparent. And that doesn't count all the hit% nerfs for melee and spell, resistance rework etc.

But did the content of Vanilla actually change in Classic or are you just talking about us having better computers and access to more Youtube/internet material? Is there a difference between green items in Vanilla and green items in Classic?

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Yes they maybe had greens/blues, but they have played vanilla so long they probably do same damage with blues than most raiders with full naxx gear.

Played vanilla so long their abilities do more damage? Or are you saying the 1-2 button rotation is so hard there can be significant difference between players?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Ye, excuses been flying in entire day, one more dumb than another.

It's amazing.
Especially intrigued by the "oh but itemization tho!" and "Only rEtAiLeRs tooted teh horn of Classic!"-excuses being conjured.

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Played vanilla so long their abilities do more damage? Or are you saying the 1-2 button rotation is so hard there can be significant difference between players?

My thoughts exactly.

In fact, that argument was taken straight from Live and Mythic players vs LFR players. But it simply doesn't compute with Classic and its class design and boss designs.

[Ange]

Everyone was dumb back then

You are literally screaming that you never played in VANILLA.

=> overpopulated servers were CRASHING on reset days regularly
=> 40-man raid WITH graphic bugs for even worse FPS, single digit FPS on some fights were the norm, the encounter code got many fixes to keep instance servers stable
=> ISP contracts to TELIA were still not the norm, so people hat issues with lagy servers all the time and packet loss on top of that

The truth is, that today people would not play in such conditions.

I am allways surprised that people do not realize what 1-10 FPS vs 250 FPS does change a lot of thing in a 40-raid setting and how you deal with the issue.

Many MC/BWL progression raid nights ended with chain instance crashes and bugging boss fights. And if you think this was FIRST WEEK ONLY, you missing the point that the servers, at least in EU were overpopulated for the whole VANILLA duration, since the game grow faster every week.

This is so common knowledge about the issues in vanilla, I dont even understand why you not at least google about things you clearly dont know.

[Sulika]

What are you arguing?

Just like many others in this thread he is just trying to pretend he is so smart he knew this would happen all along.

[Makabreska]

It's amazing.
Especially intrigued by the "oh but itemization tho!" and "Only rEtAiLeRs tooted teh horn of Classic!"-excuses being conjured.

The guy claiming, that Blizz intentionally sabotaged Classic so peeps will turn to 9.0 takes the cake.

Just like many others in this thread he is just trying to pretend he is so smart he knew this would happen all along.

Because knowing that Classic raids will be breezed through was some kind of a hidden knowledge? It's not like that was explained so many times throughout the years.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Just like many others in this thread he is just trying to pretend he is so smart he knew this would happen all along.

I've been arguing this for a decade by now in the face of countless of deluded people thinking Classic content at any point beyond 2009 (or even TBC, arguably) would pose the same challenge it did to the new players of 2004.
There's no pretending, and "the smarts" it takes just comes down to fucking common sense.

Yes, I knew this would happen, Private server players are insanely dedicated and the content is so rudimentary they make up their own games to make things more challenging as they run said content (timed clears etc)
What I was NOT prepared for however, was how they'd clear the content without a full team of level 60's. That's another testament to their knowledge of the game version that they play.

[Adviceanon]

A) "Only retail players", lol. Talk about the new boogeyman. Same as how "rEtAil PlAyErS" made the addon that was literally available in Vanilla to "sabotage Classic".

More like, former players/haters of Retail listening to content creators spewing BS, were saying how Classic would be the pinnacle of challenge. Retail players were the ones telling them how wrong they were, and Pserver players were busy doing their thing since what happens on Retail forums don't concern them.

B) What am I arguing? Exactly what I said. Read it again if anything's unclear I guess?

All I'm seeing is a lot of anger for some reason I don't really understand. I was for the lfg addon but when I put it to use it actually wasn't very helpful. It was easier to just post a group in chat or whisper people.
As far as difficulty goes method is wiping in MC as we speak while another private server guild is almost to rag.

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I've been arguing this for a decade by now in the face of countless of deluded people thinking Classic content at any point beyond 2009 would pose the same challenge it did to the new players of 2004.
There's no pretending, and "the smarts" it takes just comes down to fucking common sense.

Yes, I knew this would happen, Private server players are insanely dedicated and the content is so rudimentary they make up their own games to make things more challenging as they run said content (timed clears etc)
What I was NOT prepared for however, was how they'd clear the content without a full team of level 60's. That's another testament to their knowledge of the game version that they play.

But what are you angry about?

[Queen of Hamsters]

All I'm seeing is a lot of anger for some reason I don't really understand. I was for the lfg addon but when I put it to use it actually wasn't very helpful. It was easier to just post a group in chat or whisper people.
As far as difficulty goes method is wiping in MC as we speak while another private server guild is almost to rag.

Oh, you're reading anger into it? Projection, I'd have to conclude.
Being angry with the delusions of the Muhnilla crowd (no, not rEtAilErs) might just sound like the most useless concept ever, seeing as how they were never going to change their tune until Classic came out and served as a proof in itself.

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But what are you angry about?

Why are you desperate to read anger into it?
I'm literally sitting here typing between pulls, speaking to the guild, having a laugh. No need to concern yourself with my mood.

[MasterHamster]

I'm more interested in knowing how long it'll take an average raiding guild to take down Ragnaros,
since like 95% of the community is between level 15-30 at this point (that includes me)
APES would qualify as speedrunners with years of private server experience, so clearing these raids easily with 1.12 balancing was expected.
You heard it from players who had been playing on private realms that these bosses are easy to kill once you have the manpower and bare minimum gear to do it.
As everyone knows, classic raiding was a lot about logistics and having the gear necessary, it was never mechanically advanced.

People are acting as if WoW Classic has been "cleared", this is about as accurate as saying that WotLK ended
when Ensidia cleared WotLKs first tier endgame within 3 days of release.

APES is so far from being a representative of the average player you can get.
There's going to take a long, long time before average players get leveled and geared to take down Ragnaros.
Of course it's not going to take 150+ days like it did back in original classic, but let's keep the bad faith arguments down.
This was literally a speedrun by "professional" classic players who has played it for years. The only thing lacking was farmed gear.

But yes, those who were saying it'd take many weeks or months to see these bosses go down evidently don't know just how much more efficient
players are once they are armed to the teeth with guides, macros, addons, and experience.