Why you need to hate on thing to like another?

[Shakana]

I never liked the leveling in vanilla. It was spread all over, it didn't flow at all. It didn't even have a main storyline. Some people might like that, but i certainly didn't.
I much prefered to level new characters in GW1 with a deeper combat system and great storyline. Wich is why Vanilla never worked for me. I had an alternative.

Totally get you there. Leveling can be fun, but you repeat leveling in same areas when you level characters (well you can choose other areas), but ends up not having much challenge, and that's where classic wins on lvling only because you have just this areas and there's no big world you need to level to 120. 120 is so terrible. I get to 80 and i feel i will be drying out energy to level up the rest. GW1? Guild wars? I loved guild wars sooooo muchhh. I played nightfall too, where i loved lvling the most. I miss that game actually. I had this dervish and there was some snow areas that i felt so terrified to be in. haha

[MoanaLisa]

Can still ignore them. I do. I don't comment on forums, topics, or social media stories that aren't of interest to me.

That wasn't directed at you specifically. But sure, you see it even in this thread. "I played Game A and didn't like it. It's bad." I don't know if it's bad but I know that it wasn't liked. It might be very good. It's perfectly OK to dislike something that is crafted very well. We do that with music, books and other media all the time. Is Mozart or Beethoven bad? No, but a lot of people don't like them and that's OK. In fact, I'm not all that tribal about things. I can spend an afternoon listening to Mozart and enjoy watching Led Zeppelin's Celebration Day after dinner. It's much more satisfying to talk about the stuff I like.

It's much easier to have a discussion about what you like or dislike about something without slamming the door on it by saying "It's fucking terrible" which is much more likely to get a lot more attention but zero in the way of conversation. It's really quite depressing. It's nearly impossible to have an actual conversation with anyone when it's like this.

I don't think that Classic is bad in fact. It's an artifact of its time. If that's the way you want to play in an MMORPG, have at it. If you don't that's OK. It's not for everyone. Separating hype from real sustainable interest will take while. I have tons of criticisms of BFA as well and the current development rut that is leaving most content and story really stale (for me). But I'll couch all of that in terms of what I like and dislike and wonder offhand what do they think they're doing. Because I'm really curious about that. It doesn't make sense so understanding it is more important to me than anything.

[Shakana]

I don't think that Classic is bad in fact. It's an artifact of its time.

It's a relic! Started this world that we feel connected to, where soundtrack takes you to other places. Where stories fill your fantasies. Will always be ofc super estimate. In a era your computer would take 20 minutes to log on windows + 100 hours to log in queue and servers crash. xD Today you log on windows in 1 second and start the game without queues on retail. That's how stuff has evolved!

[Mardux]

True, i was on classic, i forgot that i had a rank 2 of a spell that i had to learn (cause it was so much time ago, i forgot about 10000 things after playing retail so much years) and this guy just says on the dungeon "u play retail don't you?" or even there's those people on classic saying "retail trashcan" to each other.Lol this is what i mean, before classic was possible everyone that still played was on retail yet you're judged because you played a continuing version of that same classic version!!!

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Vanilla had many flaws, ain't perfect, that's why it was good in a way. Because you would sweat to accomplish.
It's about your preferences on gameplay. Do you like to spend time on getting useless rewards on retail that you feel it's just about gear or you prefer to kill mobs up to 60 level and do almost the same as you do on retail now? Even asmongold said himself he thinks classic best part is the leveling, because after that is just like retail, you do dungeons, raids and stuff.

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Care to remember, that Asmongold is even a classic fan. And for even him to say that, is just to give you this idea, that the game gets stagnated after you max level.

Most games after you level up you feel you have nothing else to do. On a game with a campaign for example. You buy the game. You do the campaign, and that's it. Then you have the game and only play if you want to do the campaign again. Age of empires for example (i know it's not a MMORPG but just trying to get somewhere with this), there's always a breaking point where you feel you did all you had to do already on a game. And wow man, wow has survived all this years cause they keep bringing new content and lore. It's actually amazing how they came so far.

Wow. It took 14(ish) posts before someone tried to make this thread about Asmontroll. Well done, mmoc, you're getting better.

[Shakana]

Wow. It took 14(ish) posts before someone tried to make this thread about Asmontroll. Well done, mmoc, you're getting better.

LOL i was simply saying that even the most watched streamer that is a classic fan said this. Not making the thread about him tho. Btw nice swedish metal band name, i used to hear them.

[Alydael]

Why do you need to hate retail to like classic or vice versa? Everytime i see people choosing one of the games, even tho it's the same game and the comparisons are annoying and full of hatred for retail or basically you have to hate classic because you want to play retail and everyone leaves retail to go play classic. Why can't we just agree to enjoy both but that retail ain't only fun enough this xpac and all and it's just decaying but retail has so many good stuff too and i will repeat IT'S STILL world of warcraft. With more 15 years in it, where lore was add and times change and evolution is part of it.

You can like both, no need to hate one or another. You can also love both and just wish they had some similarities. I would prefer old systems incorporated on a new lore (retail) without experience the same vanilla dungeons and raids once again. But you can still love the old dungeons and raids too.

Just do a bit of thinking, this game wasn't just good at vanilla era, and we all know it. Wotlk is even the most mentioned, cause it was actually in that era that subscribers got higher than ever. So don't make it seem like vanilla was the best of bests and retail suck, cause lore is actually amazing.

You don't. It's juts some people on these think its "cool" to hate on retail, that somehow hating retail (and loving classic) somehow makes them a more authentic player.

We all saw what happened though...... 0-60 and cleared MC in one week......... You won't see that in a retail patch.

I play both and I enjoy both.

My interest in classic is waning a bit though, the no multi tap is a bit annoying to me. Ten groups of five players all waiting for one kobold to spawn so they can spam it and get the shot in first to tag it for their group is just not that engaging to me. It is far from what I consider "good design" or "challenging."

[Xemioza]

As soon as I told my friend that I’m not planning to play classic one of them replied that “retail is dead”, “noone is playing it”, “retail is too easy”(yeah classic bosses without mechanics are way harder).

Im not hating on classic but every time I try to explain why retail is better for me, I’m insulted by people that quit the game in TBC/Wotlk. Telling me that current game is shit. Mythic raids are way harder than anything back in vanilla/tbc. There is way more things to do.

[Shakana]

As soon as I told my friend that I’m not planning to play classic one of them replied that “retail is dead”, “noone is playing it”, “retail is too easy”(yeah classic bosses without mechanics are way harder).

Im not hating on classic but every time I try to explain why retail is better for me, I’m insulted by people that quit the game in TBC/Wotlk. Telling me that current game is shit. Mythic raids are way harder than anything back in vanilla/tbc. There is way more things to do.

That's curious actually because people struggle way more on mechanics of retail and barely what is needed to do a boss in mythic. It requires alot more hard work.
People struggle so much that method always gets world first, well at least most of the times. Let's say 90%. xD

[Xemioza]

I know it requires a lot more work, but I’m hitting a wall, I tried to tell them that a simple 5 man dungeon from legion/bfa have more mechanics than whole MC.
“classic was harder, retail is baby game”. Thats the comment I got from one of them. Guy is in a guild that was struggling to clear Heroic.

[Shakana]

You don't. It's juts some people on these think its "cool" to hate on retail, that somehow hating retail (and loving classic) somehow makes them a more authentic player.

We all saw what happened though...... 0-60 and cleared MC in one week......... You won't see that in a retail patch.

I play both and I enjoy both.

My interest in classic is waning a bit though, the no multi tap is a bit annoying to me. Ten groups of five players all waiting for one kobold to spawn so they can spam it and get the shot in first to tag it for their group is just not that engaging to me. It is far from what I consider "good design" or "challenging."

Yep. Oh man that tag thing was really annoying and the loot, sometimes i wouldn't get anything for 10 minutes straight cause it wouldn't come to me but to them in my group as well. It was way harder back then having tags and loot and find where the quests are, i had to even download questie addon cause i couldn't bare reading it all to be fair. xD i struggled with that back then and now. Before was called "quest helper", i was on my first toon and i said WTF where do i go?? To my friends, they said immediately "Oh snap forgot to tell you to download quest helper", there was literally no arrows, no help. I mean it's a game for people with patience and slow gameplay. I'm the opposite of it, i like fast and furious, like my demon hunter xD i have my fun on classic, but every game that i play more than 2 hours i feel i'm losing my real life for a virtual thing. When i could be going beach or having a BBQ with friends, swimming, that makes me enjoy being alive. So ye, i literally love to spend time on various things. And focusing on hating one thing, why is that? It's so stressing lol even if you have your own ideas it kind of makes you get a little nerve wrecking

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I know it requires a lot more work, but I’m hitting a wall, I tried to tell them that a simple 5 man dungeon from legion/bfa have more mechanics than whole MC.
“classic was harder, retail is baby game”. Thats the comment I got from one of them. Guy is in a guild that was struggling to clear Heroic.

Hahah sometimes i even see people struggling on normal. And there's this time that we need to explain fights for people because if they don't know the mechanics well they cannot do it. On classic is less about the mechanics and more about staying alive. 1 hunter without ammo is enough to make it harder! On classic dungeons you don't even need a tank, you can just go 4 dps and 1 healer, having a mage to frost nova etc will make the job for you. While on m+ on retail you have all this affixes you need to know what to do in this certain circumstances, you know? it's fun tho having 4 dps and 1 heal on classic too. See i enjoy both versions, i really love both

[Thetruth1400]

To me classic is fun and enjoyable to play. Everything i do is meaningful and rewarding.

Retail is a borefest with meaningless chores and i havent logged in on it since classic launched.

I dont hate retail, i just think its inferior to classic in every way imaginable so i dont waste my time with it.

This right here; that's the best answer to OP.


Now on to answering the OP's question: The reality is, they're both WoW so they're extremely easy to compare to each other. It also depends on what your personal level of the word hate means.

I "hate" retail for the same reasons as the post I quote. Retail feels boring and like it's over catering to the masses which makes nothing feel like a reward. I log into retail so I can play Classic for free. It's too easy to get everything in retail; gear, content, gold, etc. Nothing feels like a reward when you get it handed to you / when even the hardest content has another RNG hidden in the background meaning the best gear can be even better if you just get lucky! Not skill, luck. That's the problem.

Now that hate I speak of, it doesn't mean I hope the game closes down, it just means "Hey, I don't like the direction you took this game and my personal opinion is you should start going back on these changes that you called quality of life, but really, they watered the game down."

I "hate" retail because it isn't closer to the design philosophy of classic, not because I actually hate it with passion and disgust.

[MoanaLisa]

Wow. It took 14(ish) posts before someone tried to make this thread about Asmontroll. Well done, mmoc, you're getting better.

I won't name names because I'm making a more general point here but streamers have their fans and they live or die by ginning up controversy. Call it what it is, the most watched streamers (and "influencers") tend to be attention-whores. That's the very definition of the gig; it's a job requirement. You're not going to get 25,000 subscribers by being quiet, informative and what passes for normal. They're "entertainers" first. Then, a few of the fans wander over here or to Blizz or to Twitter or Reddit and unload. It's how it works.

Talk radio is a model for some of this. It's just been passed on to another medium.

It's all of a piece of what I was saying earlier: Toxicity, anger and hostility generate clicks which can tip over to being viral. And then true discussion and conversation mostly end.

Discussing World of Warcraft can be a good thing and I think that Blizzard is much more likely to listen to reasoned opinions than people spewing at them. Personally I think Blizzard is making a mistake investing so much time and effort in streamers and "influencers". It's not likely that it's going to benefit either of the WoW games.

[Dystemper]

Why do you need to hate retail to like classic or vice versa? Everytime i see people choosing one of the games, even tho it's the same game and the comparisons are annoying and full of hatred for retail or basically you have to hate classic because you want to play retail and everyone leaves retail to go play classic. Why can't we just agree to enjoy both but that retail ain't only fun enough this xpac and all and it's just decaying but retail has so many good stuff too and i will repeat IT'S STILL world of warcraft. With more 15 years in it, where lore was add and times change and evolution is part of it.

You can like both, no need to hate one or another. You can also love both and just wish they had some similarities. I would prefer old systems incorporated on a new lore (retail) without experience the same vanilla dungeons and raids once again. But you can still love the old dungeons and raids too.

Just do a bit of thinking, this game wasn't just good at vanilla era, and we all know it. Wotlk is even the most mentioned, cause it was actually in that era that subscribers got higher than ever. So don't make it seem like vanilla was the best of bests and retail suck, cause lore is actually amazing.

I hated retail long before classic came out. Retail is a shallow game devoid of any heart or soul. Its not a MMO , its a single player action game and a poor one at that. Classic is a MMORPG , Retail has stripped away all the RPG elements

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Toxicity on a social media or forum site draws attention and clicks. Not always, but often enough, it's really about getting attention. It's a lot about sensationalism.

Or...Retail is just that terrible

[MoanaLisa]

There's an interesting topic here that doesn't need to be the usual game vs. game stuff. It would be great if we could do that instead of having to close the thread because it's like everything else. That's really tired at this point.

[Dystemper]

For me its the exact opposite. BFA is enjoyable, there is so much content (especially for a return, catching up on stuff from even WOD & LEG) while classic is meaningless- slow and boring and missing all the good QOL that actually makes it decent. Add to that we already done it, we know how it ends.

What content is there in BFA? Boring raids who gear is meaningless because of Benthic items. Professions are useless. That leaves AP grinding for Azerite traits and and WQ.

Classic its about the Journey , not end game. Professions are fun and profitable, the economy is part of the game. We have a community again with the servers. Dont want to raid? Great you can useful to the guild in a support roll by making food and potions .

Inb classic I can be logged on for 4-8 hours and not really notice it because i am so busy. Retail im on for 25 minutes and I am ready to log off

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Dont forget many player have a strong emotional attachment to Classic wow , that has diminished over the last 10 years now because of changes to the game. Classic is bringing back a lot of players who gave up on wow, and stirring up those emotions. With that comes all the usual trash talking like in Football

[Yunaqt]

To balance everything out

[Dystemper]

Nah, people found arbitrary things to hate each other about long before the Internet.



This is the correct answer. Factions, game preference, sports rivalries, politics... the fact is, people are stupid and putting things into either the "I like this thing" or the "I don't like this thing and it's therefore literally Satan" category is the go to response for like 90% of human nature.

YEah none of this has anything to do with Social media or the internet. It has been around since we have. Its human nature, There is even examples of this behavior in cuneiform tablets from Sumeria

[Wingspan]

I never liked the leveling in vanilla. It was spread all over, it didn't flow at all. It didn't even have a main storyline. Some people might like that, but i certainly didn't.
I much prefered to level new characters in GW1 with a deeper combat system and great storyline. Wich is why Vanilla never worked for me. I had an alternative.

Vanilla had the single worst quest flow of any game I have ever played.

I always respected the sheer number of quests in it, so that much kept me entertained back in the day, but man the sequencing was horrible.

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YEah none of this has anything to do with Social media or the internet. It has been around since we have. Its human nature, There is even examples of this behavior in cuneiform tablets from Sumeria

I think social media (and the internet in general) actually plays a big part in all of this.

Prior to this age of communication that we are in, most people that you associated with would have a fairly similar background to yours, so most people you met shared your own viewpoints more often (you can still see this today when cities or states often vote pretty overwhelmingly one way). Because of that, you didn’t encounter anywhere near as much “radical” thinking... and when you did, you just figured that you were dealing with a lone idiot.

These days though, we’re are all faced with the reality that a very large hunk of the world does not agree with us. It seems mystifying at times how people can even begin to think like they do. So as a knee-jerk reaction we sometimes find ourselves trying to drown out the perceived idiocy... after all, surely they will understand if we just point out how stupid their line of thinking is! It doesn’t work though. And you can sometimes walk away feeling like the only sane person in the world... which is the exact opposite of what it was like when you traveled in smaller circles.

Then you toss in some drama mamas, a general lack of repercussions and some old fashioned internet trolling and it can make for a pretty volatile experience for everyone involved. Almost any topic can become a virtual shouting match without even realizing it.

[kingpinuk880]

Seen it before, when 2 versions of the same game exist the community is split. The childish immature retards will fight and argue which is better till the cows come home. Been through it before with counter strike. You had 1.6 v source and the mud slinging never stopped until CS:GO came out. Hope this classic v retail crap doesn’t last that long, it’s already boring abs tiresome

[Fred Skinner]

Why do you need to hate retail to like classic or vice versa?

Well, i do not hate classic, i just dislike it for the reason it takes away development effort from retail, and could even influence retails ongoing development.

Also, no matter if classic is very successfull, it is driven by a hype based on nostalgia and curiosity. Which is not going to end well.

Retail is the better implementation of the game. Yet, i think the devs did some major mistakes in retail. One of them is that they devalued old content. Another is that they create a mmorpg for a casual gamer audience, yet focus on competition and esports. Thats detrimental.