The Dark Ranger: Does it have enough material to become a class?

[derpkitteh]

But she isn't a banshee, so automatically no Banshee powers for the class.

So without a Banshee spec, what specs are we looking at for this class?

if she wasn't, she wouldn't be a dark ranger.

[Skayth]

Can dark rangers? Def.
U have 3 specs already laid out simply from dark ranger from wc3. Curses and poisons dealing with weapons (black arrow), necromancy and banshee (obvious) and finally a healer spec (less obvious in the drain life)

Curses and poisons is easy to do, just make them the ranger equivalent to other dot classes. Exciting i know, but it is no shock that all classes are similar. But havs this be the "ranger" aspect spec.

Necromancy and banshee stuff, easy peasy with allowing the ranger to have a single pet (permanent) in this spec, and then have the ranger using bones and what not to ravage the enemy. Hell, steal from the d3 d2 necro on that. Finally with tbe banshee stuff, its all about charming and possession. Basically take control of humanoid beings (living and npc and non boss) similar to lock enslave or dk dominate.

Healing? Make it simalr to atonement, with smart heals, where u are performing healing through dps. Drain life and curses to heal targets. U can "mark" a friendly to receive heals but u dont have many direct heals at all. Use the enemy to heal ur friends. Suck their vitality and life force. Evil enough and unique enough for this.

Between tinker and dark ranger, it goes either or. If the next expansion is death related, dr all the way. Titan or azeroth focused? (Hell bfa) tinker

[Ielenia]

Can dark rangers? Def.
U have 3 specs already laid out simply from dark ranger from wc3. Curses and poisons dealing with weapons (black arrow), necromancy and banshee (obvious) and finally a healer spec (less obvious in the drain life)

Specs aren't about abilities, they're about concepts, and a healer spec does not fit the dark ranger, like it didn't fit the demon hunter.

[Cosmic Janitor]

if she wasn't, she wouldn't be a dark ranger.

I'm still not sure where this idea comes from, all the dark rangers besides sylvanas so far have shown nothing like banshee powers, and frankly, even the banshee wail is is at best a low tier shadow priest spell akin to psychic scream. None of the stuff displayed actually requires them to be banshees either, as every human mage can learn necromancy if he so wishes, I very much doubt elves are an exception here.

[Triceron]

I'm still not sure where this idea comes from, all the dark rangers besides sylvanas so far have shown nothing like banshee powers, and frankly, even the banshee wail is is at best a low tier shadow priest spell akin to psychic scream. None of the stuff displayed actually requires them to be banshees either, as every human mage can learn necromancy if he so wishes, I very much doubt elves are an exception here.

Wouldn't it be treated just like Death Knights using Frost powers? I mean we can say there was nothing prior to Wrath showing us Death Knights with Frost magic, and that's been a domain of the separate Lich heroes and Frost Mages. Either way, it's still a welcome addition to add flavour to the Death Knight class. Same with Banshee magic for Dark Rangers, it isn't necessary but it makes sense.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Wouldn't it be treated just like Death Knights using Frost powers? I mean we can say there was nothing prior to Wrath showing us Death Knights with Frost magic, and that's been a domain of the separate Lich heroes and Frost Mages. Either way, it's still a welcome addition to add flavour to the Death Knight class. Same with Banshee magic for Dark Rangers, it isn't necessary but it makes sense.

My point was that the hard requirement for them to be part banshee is nonsense. Unless they want us to turn into the lost smoke monster as well (and frankly even then) there is just no reason for that as an requirement, nothing they do is all that special.

[Piamonte]

My point was that the hard requirement for them to be part banshee is nonsense. Unless they want us to turn into the lost smoke monster as well (and frankly even then) there is just no reason for that as an requirement, nothing they do is all that special.

Turning into smoke and passing through solo objects is pretty special of you ask me.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Turning into smoke and passing through solo objects is pretty special of you ask me.

Only if you make the clicking sounds and have the electric discharges .

[Zagreus]

Out of a slightly sideways view of this...

If Sylvanas goes a bit Illidan and starts training her own private army (with her becoming a raid boss at some point) - could a class come about that was trained in bow's/tracking by the current dark rangers and heals/curses/necromancy by her valkyr?

I think it's about time for another class to be able to use ranged weapons as a primary and ticks the usual Blizz requirement of needing to at least be able to tank or heal, plus it's been a while since a ranged DPS spec has been added to the game.

With Sylvanas being non-aligned to either faction (in this scenario), it would allow her to take whoever she wanted into her service and having some escape her control isn't unheard of.

EDIT: A third spec taught banshee magic could be chucked in too

[DotEleven]

it's quite obvious that they intend to do something with delaryn, she could easily be the leader for alliance dark rangers if she betrays sylvanas(or if, christ metzen forbid, sylvanas gets redeemed and becomes a neutral hero).

if you'll take notice of delaryn, she's the only one without an updated dark ranger model. her model is just a dk night elf skin with a faint red glow floating in front of normal white night elf eyes. this, to me, means she's probably going to be getting a unique model. she's also standing there at the end of the darkshore quests just staring at purple magic in her hand, a pose that's made to call attention to her.

I mean, she doesn't really look any different than the other Kaldorei Dark Rangers outside of her outfit. But the point is, she's still forsaken. She's been risen and following Sylvanas. She even have quotes about how "Death has a way of making everything clearer" and "Do not fear, we are on the same side this time". She's lost faith in Elune and believes, true to the races name, that Elune has forsaken them by letting Teldrassil burn.

Like, literally on being raised.

Sira Moonwarden says: We placed our faith in you.
Delaryn Summermoon says: And you abandoned us. Elune abandoned us!
Delaryn Summermoon says: We have nothing left. We are forsaken.

[F Rm]

The issue with Death Knight is that

1) Death Knights don't have any ranger training.

Learning archery isn't that big of a deal. Anyone can learn it really.

Would it make perfect sense? No. Nothing regarding making the Dark Ranger-fantasy a playable option would really. At least not when measured by the models we deal with today.

They've been trained as Death Knights in the ways of Frost, Unholy, and Blood, how to imbue their weapon with these effects and enshrouding themselves in them as well.

Blood might be a bit of a stretch.

But as for Frost and Unholy, both of these could fit the Dark Ranger-theme. Besides, Unholy for DKs is already about Necromancy.

As for how to imbue weapons with these schools, doing so for a bow/ranged weapon would fit just as well as doing it with melee-weapons.

And as stated the Elves are a bit testy about teaching outsiders their Farstrider techniques. This goes all the way back to when Dark Rangers were just Farstriders. There were so many that were upset that Sylvanas was even teaching Nathanos.

Agreed. Like I said above, despite the fact that the race restrictions of Dark Rangers have loosened slightly over time, it still doesn't make sense for most races to be able to fight like Dark Rangers. Especially as long as they are still alive.

2) All the playable undead (outside Death Knight) are a part of the Forsaken. No other playable race forcibly raises their people from the dead. The Death Knights had an entire storyline where they only came back to use because the Lich King control over them was weakened, otherwise we wouldn't even have death knights. Yes, Nathanos has a small regiment of human Undead being trained as rangers, but they're still under Sylvanas' command. Remember the dark rangers are her ELITE squad. Heck, they actually have a character in the game that drools over Dark Rangers but calls himself a "Death Ranger" instead because he's not actually a Dark Ranger cause he's a living blood-elf. If you do a small questline in Trueshot Lodge you even get a Dark Ranger's Hood.

The only thing I'm getting from this, based on what you are saying, is that Dark Rangers are so closely tied to Sylvanas and the Forsaken that it just does not make sense to implement the Dark Ranger-fantasy as a playable option. Simply because it just would not fit with any other race. Especially not the Alliance.

And especially not through the Hunter class simply because while sure, Dark Rangers are still half Rangers, BUT they are also half spellcasters that utilizes unholy magic and dabbles in Necromancy. Both of which are pretty much direct opposites to what the Hunter class is about.

[DotEleven]

Learning archery isn't that big of a deal. Anyone can learn it really.

Would it make perfect sense? No. Nothing regarding making the Dark Ranger-fantasy a playable option would really. At least not when measured by the models we deal with today.




Blood might be a bit of a stretch.

But as for Frost and Unholy, both of these could fit the Dark Ranger-theme. Besides, Unholy for DKs is already about Necromancy.

As for how to imbue weapons with these schools, doing so for a bow/ranged weapon would fit just as well as doing it with melee-weapons.





Agreed. Like I said above, despite the fact that the race restrictions of Dark Rangers have loosened slightly over time, it still doesn't make sense for most races to be able to fight like Dark Rangers. Especially as long as they are still alive.






The only thing I'm getting from this, based on what you are saying, is that Dark Rangers are so closely tied to Sylvanas and the Forsaken that it just does not make sense to implement the Dark Ranger-fantasy as a playable option. Simply because it just would not fit with any other race. Especially not the Alliance.

And especially not through the Hunter class simply because while sure, Dark Rangers are still half Rangers, BUT they are also half spellcasters that utilizes unholy magic and dabbles in Necromancy. Both of which are pretty much direct opposites to what the Hunter class is about.

Being a ranger is much more than just archery. You've got scouting, trapping, surviving in the wild on bare bones, tracking, etc.

Funny because being that the initial dark ranger used a life steal ability you'd think Blood would be the only one that could link them.

The race restrictions prevent it from being part of the gameplay completely. The fact that it is so interlinked with the Forsaken prevents it from being in any other race. If you open it up to other races in order to make it a class, there's no reason they couldn't just open it up to other races making it a spec for hunter. The fact that they are half ranger makes them a good candidate for being in the hunter class. It would be a specialized form. Much like priests. Priests are about preaching and healing and the holy light. There's one spec that completely turns this on it's head and goes dark. Why couldn't they do the same for this?

[F Rm]

Being a ranger is much more than just archery. You've got scouting, trapping, surviving in the wild on bare bones, tracking, etc.

Funny because being that the initial dark ranger used a life steal ability you'd think Blood would be the only one that could link them.

The race restrictions prevent it from being part of the gameplay completely. The fact that it is so interlinked with the Forsaken prevents it from being in any other race. If you open it up to other races in order to make it a class, there's no reason they couldn't just open it up to other races making it a spec for hunter. The fact that they are half ranger makes them a good candidate for being in the hunter class. It would be a specialized form. Much like priests. Priests are about preaching and healing and the holy light. There's one spec that completely turns this on it's head and goes dark. Why couldn't they do the same for this?

Because the Hunter class is also not based on using magic.

It would be the same as if you were to suddenly make a priest or a mage put on Plate armor and give them a large 2h axe/sword and think that they could make good use of it. On the same level as a warrior/paladin...or a DK.

Believing that a Hunter who has for the longest time mastered the art of hunting with either a ranged weapon or even a melee-weapon while having VERY strong spiritual ties to the nature and the wild, believing that someone like that could learn to conjure unholy magic like a skillful Necromancer...sorry, no.

You made the point of the undead having a "natural" connection to the unholy. Something I agree with.
But that still gives us the issue with Undeath as a requirement.

The whole point of Dark Rangers(due to their grim fate of dying followed by being raised as Undead), no longer have such strong spiritual ties to the nature/the wild, is that they have chosen to master what has become more natural to them.
It simply does not go hand-in-hand with a living Hunter.

The archery/scouting/trapping/survival or tracking skills etc, like you mentioned, they do tie in with the Hunter class.
But the unholy magic doesn't. Not even a little bit.
And you cannot have a Dark Ranger without the magic.

[DotEleven]

Because the Hunter class is also not based on using magic.

It would be the same as if you were to suddenly make a priest or a mage put on Plate armor and give them a large 2h axe/sword and think that they could make good use of it. On the same level as a warrior/paladin...or a DK.

Believing that a Hunter who has for the longest time mastered the art of hunting with either a ranged weapon or even a melee-weapon while having VERY strong spiritual ties to the nature and the wild, believing that someone like that could learn to conjure unholy magic like a skillful Necromancer...sorry, no.

You made the point of the undead having a "natural" connection to the unholy. Something I agree with.
But that still gives us the issue with Undeath as a requirement.

The whole point of Dark Rangers(due to their grim fate of dying followed by being raised as Undead), no longer have such strong spiritual ties to the nature/the wild, is that they have chosen to master what has become more natural to them.
It simply does not go hand-in-hand with a living Hunter.

The archery/scouting/trapping/survival or tracking skills etc, like you mentioned, they do tie in with the Hunter class.
But the unholy magic doesn't. Not even a little bit.
And you cannot have a Dark Ranger without the magic.

So you're issue is that you refuse to think they would add in a hunter spec that uses a bit of magic? Especially when the baseline skills are still that of a ranger?

Like, I see no issue with adding one spec, that has a bit of magic infused with their ranger skills. It's not like a dark ranger is a mage type of being. They are still a martial "class" for a better term. They just infuse their ranger skills with some necromantic pwoer as well as a couple extra. Like, you don't ever really see a Dark Ranger casting say a deathbolt, it's an arrow covered in necromatic power. They don't just summon a dark minion, the minion comes (in WC3) from infecting them with an arrow. Like, I have acknowledged that you have two parts to the Dark Ranger. The Ranger and the Dark. Do you honestly believe they couldn't have a spec where a Ranger has forgone their connection to the wild and instead tapped into the necromatic masteries (should we open it up to other races), much like how there is one spec where Priests have forgone their faith in the light and instead tapped into the void?

Like, let's take a different potential spec. Magic Swordsman. Now, most mages are all about casting spells from range blasting away their opponent. This would be one that uses spells, but also imbues some form of magic (frost, fire, maybe lightning) in their sword in addition to casting. I still feel that would fit quite well into the Mage despite not being the ranged caster type that has been seen so-far. Now then, if we had the same but instead it was more focused on the martial aspect of being a magic swordsman, it could potentially find it's way into warrior.

I guess what we have here is that I see the ranger spec and I see the foundation as a ranger who has specialized in unholy magic. Which is what specializations are for. No other hunter but the Dark Ranger would be specialized in that. You seem to see it as a necromancer first, ranger second which I just can't see because the baseline abilities aren't a caster type, but a martial type.

[F Rm]

So you're issue is that you refuse to think they would add in a hunter spec that uses a bit of magic? Especially when the baseline skills are still that of a ranger?

Like, I see no issue with adding one spec, that has a bit of magic infused with their ranger skills. It's not like a dark ranger is a mage type of being. They are still a martial "class" for a better term. They just infuse their ranger skills with some necromantic pwoer as well as a couple extra. Like, you don't ever really see a Dark Ranger casting say a deathbolt, it's an arrow covered in necromatic power. They don't just summon a dark minion, the minion comes (in WC3) from infecting them with an arrow. Like, I have acknowledged that you have two parts to the Dark Ranger. The Ranger and the Dark. Do you honestly believe they couldn't have a spec where a Ranger has forgone their connection to the wild and instead tapped into the necromatic masteries (should we open it up to other races), much like how there is one spec where Priests have forgone their faith in the light and instead tapped into the void?

Like, let's take a different potential spec. Magic Swordsman. Now, most mages are all about casting spells from range blasting away their opponent. This would be one that uses spells, but also imbues some form of magic (frost, fire, maybe lightning) in their sword in addition to casting. I still feel that would fit quite well into the Mage despite not being the ranged caster type that has been seen so-far. Now then, if we had the same but instead it was more focused on the martial aspect of being a magic swordsman, it could potentially find it's way into warrior.

I guess what we have here is that I see the ranger spec and I see the foundation as a ranger who has specialized in unholy magic. Which is what specializations are for. No other hunter but the Dark Ranger would be specialized in that. You seem to see it as a necromancer first, ranger second which I just can't see because the baseline abilities aren't a caster type, but a martial type.

Honestly, it would be much more than "just a bit of magic".

A Dark Ranger is as much a magic user as they are an archer/ranger.

Like, you don't ever really see a Dark Ranger casting say a deathbolt, it's an arrow covered in necromatic power

That's just one ability…

But anyway, what would you say that a Dark Ranger-spec should have, in terms of abilities/passives etc?

[DotEleven]

Honestly, it would be much more than "just a bit of magic".

A Dark Ranger is as much a magic user as they are an archer/ranger.



That's just one ability…

But anyway, what would you say that a Dark Ranger-spec should have, in terms of abilities/passives etc?

Of course Black Arrow, Banshee form version of Disengage. Some more crippling style shots. I mean, I feel things like Serpent sting could fit in with them as well. We're looking for a darker style so we want the enemy to kind of feel some form of dread in it. We could also get in some wailing abilities to fit in there too probably.

The thing is, that we're looking at a skirmishing style reminiscent of a hunter style more than a necromancer style. Dark Rangers are meant to flit around the battle-field and be up on their feet rather than sitting in a spot casting spells.

And the main thing to remember is that Dark Rangers are just a subset of hunters. Like regardless of what Blizzard will or won't do with them later, right now they're literally a sub-class of hunter so if they were going to add them to the game, why not just add them to hunter?

I mean, one of the things I could easily see them doing is if they gave classes names specific to each race, I think the Forsaken Hunter would literally be named "Dark Ranger" like how one of Kul'tiran Mages or Shamans would be called Tidesages, or Zandalari Paladins would be called Prelates.

[Kagdar]

So you're issue is that you refuse to think they would add in a hunter spec that uses a bit of magic? Especially when the baseline skills are still that of a ranger?

The biggest problem for Dark Rangers to being a 4th spec is exactly the fact that they now use necrotic magic.
Like you said multiple times in this thread, Dark Rangers currently in the lore are former Hunters that lost their connection with Nature when they became undead.

So having them as a 4th spec would make absolutely no sense. They lost their connection with nature. They can't go back to being simple hunters.
The only other class that use both sides on the same magic class is Priest. And they CAN wield both shadow and light at the same time.

The way i see the Dark Rangers being added in the game is by them being a new type of "Dark Rangers" that probably use the shadow instead of necrotic magic.
I'm pretty sure that most players who wants a Dark Ranger class only want a edgy/dark kind on hunter. The closest we have in the lore is Dark Rangers currently so they want "that".

Or they could be the first hero class that actually have 2 different story line and visuals for being in different factions. Being the same class mechanics but having each abilities have different names and icons.

[DotEleven]

The biggest problem for Dark Rangers to being a 4th spec is exactly the fact that they now use necrotic magic.
Like you said multiple times in this thread, Dark Rangers currently in the lore are former Hunters that lost their connection with Nature when they became undead.

So having them as a 4th spec would make absolutely no sense. They lost their connection with nature. They can't go back to being simple hunters.
The only other class that use both sides on the same magic class is Priest. And they CAN wield both shadow and light at the same time.

The way i see the Dark Rangers being added in the game is by them being a new type of "Dark Rangers" that probably use the shadow instead of necrotic magic.
I'm pretty sure that most players who wants a Dark Ranger class only want a edgy/dark kind on hunter. The closest we have in the lore is Dark Rangers currently so they want "that".

Or they could be the first hero class that actually have 2 different story line and visuals for being in different factions. Being the same class mechanics but having each abilities have different names and icons.

I mean, if they just go using shadow instead of necrotic then there's less of a reason they can't be a 4th spec for hunter. Outside the fact that it would SUCK having 4 dps specs for a single class (another thing barring it's entry).

Like, I don't see them coming in at all. I'm just saying if they DO, I see it more likely as a spec than a fullblown class because they follow so closely with the niche of hunter. I think Blizzard might supercede gameplay with lore in this case. Of course, they could also make up some bullshit gameplay reason as to why we could switch between like "Although losing his way the hunter has retained his sense of the wild and nature". After all, otherwise Forsaken shouldn't even be able to be baseline hunters to begin with. They also added Gnomes to the Hunter lineup who don't even have a connection to nature too and LITERALLY create their companions.

[Fruitbat69kk]

They should of had the Ranger class as a petless class with 3 specs that coves the standard ranger (like High Elf Sylvanas pre-banshee), Dark Ranger and a Tyrande Priestess of the moon (could be a healer). It would then free up the Hunter class to have the specs such as Beast master (Rexxar), Marksman (Dwarf Rifleman) and Survival (Spear throwing Troll Headhunter).

[Musta]

In your opinion obviously. From a gameplay and class homogeny standpoint, no. A Tinker inclusion is much better for the class lineup.

In your opinion obviously.