Personal Loot Feedback - Three Raids Later

[Kreo]

We getting so much gear it does not matter anymore.
Only issue with PL is restriction on item ilvl and weapon type. It forces me to have every type of the weapon I can use to be in my bag, so I can trade similar once.
Wish they would remove that restriction, and system would be great.
Loot would go to you, and if you don't need it-give it away.

[Raelbo]

Otherwise, I stand by the system being frustrating with respect to optimization.

While I totally get what you're saying, I am saying it's only frustrating because you're trying to imagine how it could be more optimal through the use of another loot distribution mechanism.

But if you look at the bigger picture, the game is designed so that you gear at a certain rate. Ergo, in the final analysis, what might seem like an un-optimal gearing, is actually just par for the course.

What makes it feel frustrating is that you get to see a piece of loot drop which you can't use. What if the game was smart enough to only ever give you loot where it was practically usable, and in instances where the piece you would have won a piece of "bound useless loot" you simply get nothing instead, thus creating the illusion that your looting is more optimal? It might feel better to some people, sure, but the reality is that in the end it's all much of a muchness.

Which is why my approach is just to brush it off. Shit will happen. "Bound useless loot" will drop. Treat it the same as "AP will drop".

PS: Looking at the big picture, no loot is genuinely "bound useless". You should always hang on to your highest ilevel loot to raise the cap at which you can trade (eg if you get the same piece next week, then you will be able to trade it).

[Crimbobbin]

As already stated, they look at what people make tickets for. Loot disputes was a major one.

Which means one of two things:
1) Guilds were abusing ML in order to screw over individuals
2) Individuals were abuse the ticket system

Either way, removing ML solves a significant portion of the problem.

I think you are partially right, but I think it's more a case of blizzard laziness. Case in point, on our first Azshara kill one of our healers, resto sham got her trinket. They didn't need it. Thank God he already had 2 equal/higher ilvl trinkets equipped right? Wrong, would not allow it to be traded. He ticked blizz, which took a while because all their web based shit is designed to they don't have to personally interact with you any more when it comes to loot because "lol we streamlined it there CAN'T be any issues any more guys stop bothering us". Three days later he got a generic response saying, it was because it was higher ilvl than what he had and that's the rules suck our dick. He siad the matter was not resolved, I sent in a ticket at well as others in the guild. This is the last response we got and blizzard auto closed the tickets. It was because he has dps specs. DPS specs he never plays, because he only ever plays resto, and had never swapped to BOTH dps specs and equipped two equal/higher ilvl trinkets in. So I guess now they expect you to not only equip a high ilvl trinket/ring/weapon into your current spec, but swap to ALL your others regardless if you play them or not. Long story short, they just don't want to deal with loot at all any more no matter if it's a fair issue or not.

[Nnyco]

We getting so much gear it does not matter anymore.
Only issue with PL is restriction on item ilvl and weapon type. It forces me to have every type of the weapon I can use to be in my bag, so I can trade similar once.
Wish they would remove that restriction, and system would be great.
Loot would go to you, and if you don't need it-give it away.

Once you got an item you can trade anythin with the same ilvl or below for the same slot, even after for example selling em. You dont need to keep em in your inventory.

[Kookster]

This has got to be the most fucked up shit I've seen in a long while. Blizz removed it because of the potential for abuse, and because they are retarded (and because they listned to shitters who's opinions are irrelevant and wrong). The idea that Blizzard removed it because it was being abused is fucking weak. How can Blizzard know if it was being abused in the first place? Because some shitter whined after a much better player in his guild was given an item he wanted (while being dead for 50% of the fight)?

Giving BiS TF/socket items to your most loyal/best performing players is not abuse of the system, it's exactly what it was designed for, and why ML was good. Bad trials being denied loot and whining about it is not abuse of the system, it's exactly what ML was designed for, and why it was good. If you see any of these things as abuse, you are part of the problem, you're a shitter and your opinion means nothing.

The ONLY people who disliked ML, were the entitled shitheads who thought all loot belonged to them, despite being one of the weaker players in the guild. The dramaqueens and lootwhores. The kind of people that nobody wants to have in their guild.

Any argument coming from a PuG point of view are irrelevant, since PL has been enforced in non-guild grps since WoD.



Your argument is weak, and you are wrong. Just like everybody who wanted PL was wrong in every single thread about this issue. Just like they will be wrong in every single thread about it in the future.

10/10 i guess.

Other guy just got rekt.

[Raelbo]

Lol arguing about whose opinion is "right" or "wrong", thats not what we're doing.
And this is not the first time Blizzard has made bad changes due to a loud vocal minority,

If Blizzard had listened to the "loud vocal minority" we wouldn't be having this particular discussion...

So Im not sure what you mean when you say "you been proven wrong" when we're talking about opinions?

Questions of whether ML was being abused by some guilds isn't a question of opinion. It's a question of fact. A matter of opinion would be whether this abuse justified the removal of ML.

One of the problems with the pro-ML camp in this debate is that you're not particularly willing to accept the facts, which massively undermines your case.

[evertonbelmontt]

Personal sucks.

The truth is they got rid of ML because of progression, they wanted to slow down progression significantly and everyone knows that ML helped a lot with that. Getting your "next wall boss" easier by gearing the right players or classes was always a priority and now some people still don't have their bis trinkets or weapon after MONTHS of raiding.

The system is retarded in personal, unless they improve it by a LOT in the trading limitation department.

[Garymorilix]

This has got to be the most fucked up shit I've seen in a long while. Blizz removed it because of the potential for abuse, and because they are retarded (and because they listned to shitters who's opinions are irrelevant and wrong). The idea that Blizzard removed it because it was being abused is fucking weak. How can Blizzard know if it was being abused in the first place? Because some shitter whined after a much better player in his guild was given an item he wanted (while being dead for 50% of the fight)?

Giving BiS TF/socket items to your most loyal/best performing players is not abuse of the system, it's exactly what it was designed for, and why ML was good. Bad trials being denied loot and whining about it is not abuse of the system, it's exactly what ML was designed for, and why it was good. If you see any of these things as abuse, you are part of the problem, you're a shitter and your opinion means nothing.

The ONLY people who disliked ML, were the entitled shitheads who thought all loot belonged to them, despite being one of the weaker players in the guild. The dramaqueens and lootwhores. The kind of people that nobody wants to have in their guild.

Any argument coming from a PuG point of view are irrelevant, since PL has been enforced in non-guild grps since WoD.



Your argument is weak, and you are wrong. Just like everybody who wanted PL was wrong in every single thread about this issue. Just like they will be wrong in every single thread about it in the future.

Alrite boy. I see you get the problem Just fail to admit it.
I bet you are extra loyal for the chance at loot.

[Eli85]

As a raider:

Yes, personal loot has been the best BFA change for me. As a high performing and high parsing healer, I was often overlooked for gear in the past and geared up last (raid leader saw more value in gearing up tanks, DPS, and healers who were parsing below me), and that got frustrating (experienced this over multiple guilds). Now, with personal loot, I'm seeing gear at a much faster rate, and I more or less can keep pace with everyone else (instead of being stuck behind). So, this expansion, I haven't had to complain once. I do wish, however, that Blizzard would remove the ability to trade your loot. It still feels really bad to be told what I have to do with loot that dropped for me, regardless if it's a down grade and or a side grade.

[erifwodahs]

Having 445 branch dropped while you have 440 socket and not being able to give it to someone with 420 is.... well, you feel like shit.

[Garymorilix]

Lol arguing about whose opinion is "right" or "wrong", thats not what we're doing.
And this is not the first time Blizzard has made bad changes due to a loud vocal minority, and it is exactly why the game is in its bad state as of today.

So Im not sure what you mean when you say "you been proven wrong" when we're talking about opinions?

Well, if blizz takes Something out you should then respect their opinion and not argue it.
Amirite?

[Swnem]

Personal loot does indeed reduce loot drama, but it also makes every boss you don't get a drop from to feel like a waste of time. I think that the previous looting system made more sense for this kind of loot we have.

I think that if we are gonna keep this system, a complete revamp of the loot system and progression system is needed so it doesn't feel like you are wasting your time when you get nothing from a boss. No, AP doesn't work.

[lummiuster]

As a mythic raider I love it.
Honestly they should even restrict trading loot.

[Garymorilix]

It's not abused that much and they removed it for the lolz is the right answer. Just because you picked some shit guild doesn't mean most guild were run that way.

Here is the thing: if most groups weren't like that then it doesnt matter át áll cuz they shouldnt have used it in the first place.
If everyone is so nice and fair then player can trade between themselves and there is no need for ML.
But they weren't so nice so it got removed.

Oh mah gawd the surprise: you abuse shit it gets changed.

[Raelbo]

I think you are partially right, but I think it's more a case of blizzard laziness. Case in point, <snip>

Long story short, they just don't want to deal with loot at all any more no matter if it's a fair issue or not.

I agree 100% that they don't want to have to deal with loot drama. But I'd be more circumspect than to call that "laziness".

The fact is that every loot dispute is a lose-lose situation for Blizzard. Having a system in which disputes are not really possible just makes for a better overall gaming experience. Granted, Blizzard cannot stop everyone from lodging disputes, nor will they ever achieve 100% satisfaction (as your anecdote shows) but at least it's more consistent and a lot less nuanced. If the PL system won't let you trade the item, that's pretty much the end of it.

Also consider this: in the bigger picture, it's far healthier for the game for you guys to be grumbling about "stupid PL" than fighting each other over some loot dispute.

[Clozer]

Personal sucks.

The truth is they got rid of ML because of progression, they wanted to slow down progression significantly and everyone knows that ML helped a lot with that. Getting your "next wall boss" easier by gearing the right players or classes was always a priority and now some people still don't have their bis trinkets or weapon after MONTHS of raiding.

The system is retarded in personal, unless they improve it by a LOT in the trading limitation department.

This argument is nonsense. Most likely for your average 1500 guild you got enough mythic gear after about 3 weeks to trade anything you want with anyone you want. Before that the loot you get are MOST likely upgrades anyway. So as long as you are not in one of those top 20 guilds this changes nearly NOTHING for you at all.

[tangers58]

There was a lot of complaints in these forums when Master Looter was removed and all raid loot was turned personal. Now, 3 raids later, what are people's opinion of the current loot system?

To GMs and Raid Leaders:
- Is Personal Loot helping you with player retention by reducing loot drama?
- Or is it making player retention harder since players are no longer invested in sticking around in the guild once they are loot capped?

To Raiders:
- Has personal loot helped your raiding experience by reducing loot drama?
- Do you feel interested in staying with a guild once the guild hits a major road block or do you just move on to higher progression guild for easier loot drops?

Still garbage

[Raelbo]

The truth is they got rid of ML because of progression, they wanted to slow down progression significantly and everyone knows that ML helped a lot with that.

This is conspiracy theory argumentation, nothing more.

Blizzard have a million ways of controlling the rate of progression, from tuning bosses, to playing with loot drop chances, to tinkering with gear power, to class/ability tuning. The removal of ML was to reduce loot disputes. It's that simple.

[Fuiking]

I fucking hate personal loot....

My luck is getting loot is abysmal enough that I need to rely on people giving me items (85% of the time I get bad stats items , which normally ends up worse then my currently equipped item, TF or WF items? no way, only had 3 drop for me

[Kuruption]

PL sucks. The last two times I've killed heroic Ashzara with my guild I got a 425 font with a socket (didn't have the trinkets to trade it so it's for my offspec) and when I finally did have 445 trinkets to trade one, I got a 450 font and couldn't trade it. What a great system.

Also the amount of people being in crappy guilds still amazes me.