Sadly looking like Tinkers could become a reality.

[Shiza]

Shaman

Can't use dark voodoo, wield glaives or bows

Shadow Priest

Can't use the Banshee form or plagues

[quote]Death Knight or Affliction Lock[/quote

can't use the plague

Hunters

Can't use the avatar of vengeance, moon magic or the crescent moon weapon

The Survival Hunter with its one bomb can't use the "laser gun", so the fantasy falls apart rather quickly. Also Razak, Crushcog, Noggenfogger, Thermaplugg, Gazlowe and Gallywix also pilot mechs.

Still closer to their race fantasy than any other race. Not to forget, nobody fucking likes gnomes. They are the least played race. Even an op racial for casters didn't made people play gnomes. The only way to make people play gnomes would be to restrict the Tinker class on them, otherwise people would even play rather night elf tinkers than gnomes.

[jellmoo]

They'd fit survival or marksman hunter WAAAAAAAAY more than druid.

Again, not if the class is skinned to change the aesthetic. If part of class fantasy is to pilot a mech, nothing about a Hunter really hits that.

But if instead of transforming into a Bear to tank a Druid using a Tinker Skin turned into a Mech, which is just an art asset change, that satisfies that. Then uses melee attacks, as a bear would, but tailored for a melee mech. Or a Moonkin turns into a gunner that can pew pew with lasewrs and call down orbital strikes. Or instead of Treants, calls some robot drones to fight. The abilities are there, it's just the art and animations that need changing.

[Teriz]

I don't see why though. You're literally just using existing art assets and animations. It requires far less planning, far less number crunching, no mechanical planning and doesn't need to be factored in for balance. It's far less work, and could get you to include multiple class concepts within a single expansions, instead of just one.

Yeah but the forms themselves would have to be reconfigured for their different hit boxes.A bipedal robot for example is going to have a completely different structure than a bear or a cat. Also Guardian and Feral Druids have few to no ranged abilities. It's going to be weird having a Tinker class with no bombs, laser beams, guns, etc.

[Dragtox]

Why isn't it? If a Destruction Warlock sacs their pet, how is it really different than a Fire Mage? They both pew pew spells to DPS an enemy. The difference is really pretty minimal. How is a Combat Rogue really all that different than a Fury Warrior? They both do pretty much the same thing.

I don't see how class skins is any more or any less for hardcore Raiders or PVPers. It's largely irrelevant to Hardcores or Casuals really. Blizzard could add in a bunch of single player or small group content to the game and satisy casuals and/or make everything be Raid/PVP oriented and have class skins. They really are pretty independant things.

not if you count arena we are forced to change classes to fit arena fast phase combat that limit pve class potential + pvp locked ability and if you cant see that we have class spec that should not be based around arena then dont blame me if the game becoms a cookie clicker game + with censord stuff who knows what meme we can make to make the game worse

[Teriz]

Can't use dark voodoo, wield glaives or bows

Hex is dark voodoo.

Can't use the Banshee form or plagues

Fade, Dispersion, Devouring Plague

Death Knight or Affliction Lock[/quote

can't use the plague

Blood Plague, Frost Fever, Necrotic Plague, etc.

Can't use the avatar of vengeance, moon magic or the crescent moon weapon

Glaives, Arcane Shot is moon magic.

Still closer to their race fantasy than any other race.

You mean class. And yeah, that's part of the reason we need Tinkers.

[UnluckyAmateur]

Again, not if the class is skinned to change the aesthetic. If part of class fantasy is to pilot a mech, nothing about a Hunter really hits that.

But if instead of transforming into a Bear to tank a Druid using a Tinker Skin turned into a Mech, which is just an art asset change, that satisfies that. Then uses melee attacks, as a bear would, but tailored for a melee mech. Or a Moonkin turns into a gunner that can pew pew with lasewrs and call down orbital strikes. Or instead of Treants, calls some robot drones to fight. The abilities are there, it's just the art and animations that need changing.

Oh im all for the class skins idea that E&T threw out a few weeks ago but I just feel like it'd be less effort on their part. HOWEVER, I do see the mech angle you're throwing out and it works better than I first thought.

Semi-unrelated but I still want runemasters as a WW skin.

[protip]

Not to forget, nobody fucking likes gnomes. They are the least played race. Even an op racial for casters didn't made people play gnomes. The only way to make people play gnomes would be to restrict the Tinker class on them, otherwise people would even play rather night elf tinkers than gnomes.

We get it, you don’t like gnomes. You don’t speak for the entire player base. People like different things. Even unpopular things with a small number of fans add variety and flavor to the game. There is no need to rant at people about their favorite race because they like something you don’t like.

[jellmoo]

Yeah but the forms themselves would have to be reconfigured for their different hit boxes.A bipedal robot for example is going to have a completely different structure than a bear or a cat. Also Guardian and Feral Druids have few to no ranged abilities. It's going to be weird having a Tinker class with no bombs, laser beams, guns, etc.

The hit box thing is not hugely impactful as you could use the existing hit boxes to handle the difference if need be. It wouldn't be different than having a Gnome Warrior or a Tauren Warrior.

But those exist in the other specs. You have all of the bombs, guns and lasers in your "Moonkin" spec. You could use art and animations to turn, say Mangle into a chainsaw attack. Moonfire could be an orbital assault. Wrath is now a laser blast. And if you want to have some of that in another spec, you take the "Moonkin Attunement Talent" to add a bit to your other specs.

I agree it isn't perfect, but I do think it could be workable, and could offer a good bang for your buck when it comes to having as many class concept options available in a single expansion.

[Dragtox]

Hex is dark voodoo.





Fade, Dispersion, Devouring Plague




Blood Plague, Frost Fever, Necrotic Plague, etc.




Glaives, Arcane Shot is moon magic.




You mean class. And yeah, that's part of the reason we need Tinkers.

hehe thx helping the elves point i made on hunter not sure why hunter should hve ranger or moon based attack so much ranger stuff but has nothing to with other races when they play the class maby hunter should get race based class ability for elves to have ranger fantasy

and agree we need tinker to get ability that makes no sense on other type of classes to improve the older classes

[jellmoo]

Oh im all for the class skins idea that E&T threw out a few weeks ago but I just feel like it'd be less effort on their part. HOWEVER, I do see the mech angle you're throwing out and it works better than I first thought.

Semi-unrelated but I still want runemasters as a WW skin.

I'm not sure about less effort, I'd say the effort is just differently placed. It puts a much heavier emphasis on the art and animation team, as the idea is to have multiple class skins available at launch. It would be less effort on class design, absolutely, but then I think that effort could be put into overall game and feature design instead.

[Triceron]

You mean class. And yeah, that's part of the reason we need Tinkers.

Cept we don't need Tinkers at all.

The game's lasted 15+ years without em. We even had the chance for them to be added 4 years ago. I don't think adding them changes much, in that regard.

It's a great idea to add them to the roster, but to say the game or the players need this class? Nope, we've gotten along quite nicely without needing any Tech-based class. It would simply be nice to have if they were available.

[Teriz]

Cept we don't need Tinkers at all.

The game's lasted 15+ years without em. We even had the chance for them to be added 4 years ago. I don't think adding them changes much, in that regard.

It's a great idea to add them to the roster, but to say the game or the players need this class? Nope, we've gotten along quite nicely without needing any Tech-based class. It would simply be nice to have if they were available.

Except now we have a robot race and no class that fits it. Also it's bad that the closest fit for Goblins is Shaman, and the closest fit for Gnomes is Hunters.

[Dragtox]

The hit box thing is not hugely impactful as you could use the existing hit boxes to handle the difference if need be. It wouldn't be different than having a Gnome Warrior or a Tauren Warrior.

But those exist in the other specs. You have all of the bombs, guns and lasers in your "Moonkin" spec. You could use art and animations to turn, say Mangle into a chainsaw attack. Moonfire could be an orbital assault. Wrath is now a laser blast. And if you want to have some of that in another spec, you take the "Moonkin Attunement Talent" to add a bit to your other specs.

I agree it isn't perfect, but I do think it could be workable, and could offer a good bang for your buck when it comes to having as many class concept options available in a single expansion.

btw i will add somthing i said befor weapon fantasy to bow and gun is really diffrent in the wow universe crossbow should be changed to 1 hand and get 1 hand gun that opens up new class ideas like the pirat outlaw thing we have that culd be a class on its own but bow works so diffrent in this wow universe so every time ability based on bow is used on gun it looks really wierd and bad i hope you see there is a problem in the ranged weapon thing

meele weapon well they are meele weapon we dont really have any mid ranged weapon yet but got the transmod to it + transmod from bow-crossbow to gun is holding back hunter aswell look at how barrge and volly makes sense on bow but crossbow and gun not really
and gun is more ammuniton based then bow

[Triceron]

Except now we have a robot race and no class that fits it.

Hunter works perfectly. They'll have mech pets and explosives and technological gadgets a-plenty!

And with their OP talents, they're pretty much good in any class they can be.

[SirCowdog]

That's the thing. I am using the lore. In case you weren't aware, the origin of Dark Ranger is literally "Sylvanas died, came back, and upon attempting to connect with nature realized it wouldn't heed her call because as an undead she's against the natural order and so altered her ranger training to use necromancy instead."

Like, it's literally an altered version of a hunter.

I looked into the lore as well. It's pretty vague. Some of the wikis say that they use dark magic to create ranger spells and abilities. Does that mean they'd be limited to such? We've just seen Sylvanas, for example, blast Saurfang with a very un-ranger-like spell.

That's the thing about Dark Rangers: They're vague enough that Blizzard could fill in with just about anything dark or edgy. Claiming specifics one way or another is not something you're going to be able to definitively prove.

[Teriz]

Hunter works perfectly. They'll have mech pets and explosives and technological gadgets a-plenty!

And with their OP talents, they're pretty much good in any class they can be.

Name those "technological gadgets" in the Hunter class.

[jellmoo]

btw i will add somthing i said befor weapon fantasy to bow and gun is really diffrent in the wow universe crossbow should be changed to 1 hand and get 1 hand gun that opens up new class ideas like the pirat outlaw thing we have that culd be a class on its own but bow works so diffrent in this wow universe so every time ability based on bow is used on gun it looks really wierd and bad i hope you see there is a problem in the ranged weapon thing

I totally agree. I would love to have pistols in the game. I would also love to have more options for Ranged weapons than just the Hunter class. But it's been 15 years, so I stopped holding my breath on it.

[Kaver]

I looked into the lore as well. It's pretty vague. Some of the wikis say that they use dark magic to create ranger spells and abilities. Does that mean they'd be limited to such? We've just seen Sylvanas, for example, blast Saurfang with a very un-ranger-like spell.

That's the thing about Dark Rangers: They're vague enough that Blizzard could fill in with just about anything dark or edgy. Claiming specifics one way or another is not something you're going to be able to definitively prove.

Many of Sylvanas abilities are based on her being a Banshee and got nothing to do with Dark Rangers.

[Ielenia]

No, because very little lore has been given to Gnomes and Goblins. They haven't even appeared in a WoW cinematic. Them getting some focus would actually be refreshing.

Teriz, you're not being consistent, here. You say that Blizzard shouldn't add something "just because it's popular" (elf-only classes) but then we have one of your greatest pro-tinker arguments being its popularity.

Either popularity is a reason to add something, or it isn't. You can't pick and choose when popularity is a good reason to add something to the game or not. You can't have your cake and still have it.

As for tinkers being gnome/goblin-only, it's an objectively bad choice. Restricting a new class to the two least played races would hurt the class' popularity much more than it'd boost those races popularity.

And before you say anything, you know that the reason for the gnomes' and goblins' low population numbers is not the lack of "a class that represents them".

[Dragtox]

I totally agree. I would love to have pistols in the game. I would also love to have more options for Ranged weapons than just the Hunter class. But it's been 15 years, so I stopped holding my breath on it.

on the topic i do think tinker kinda help this but i also think we need ranger to become a thing to prove to point better and i do not really care if it is dark ranger, ranger or void ranger wich on of those 3 they make a ranger based on but just to prove the ranger is based on bow with magic but that problem is we only see 1 spec possible wich why not.. but who know if blizzard are able to make more like they did with demon hunter that i am surprised they were able to make s tank spec

i really wuld like to be in a Q/A with blizzard on the weapon problem but money is a thing and the people that ask question for us feels really like they like picking the more useless one..