8.3 possible spoilers about anduin

[reploid]

"The boy king sits at the Master's table. 3 lies will he offer you"

Ok, so the datamined visions of nzoth in stormwind and orgrimmar. In orgrimmar, green jebus is there forcing people to drink the blood of nzoth...all the usual horde bros are there...nothing weird...BUT on the stormwind one...Its all about alleria and turalyon and their kid...spymaster shaw is there...but no mention of Anduin...how come the king isnt mentioned?

Cus he serves at the master's table...he's a servant of nzoth...

[Niroshi]

Pretty sure at this point it's obviously Wrathion given that he is legit a boss in the raid, and called The Black Emperor.

[Aenwyrm]

"The light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies. The Void seeks every possible path and sees them all as truth."

Just cause Il'gynoth has weird prophetic shit to say doesn't necessarily mean that anything he says is true.

Granted, a lot of what he said in legion ended up happening but just like with real life, don't take anything at face value.

[PaladinBash]

Yo so you know those beings that are basically physical manifestations of doubt, paranoia, lying and madness that like to manipulate people with possible truths and potential bullshit? Yeah, sure is a good idea to listen to them about people we trust right?

[Alexplode]

Pretty sure at this point it's obviously Wrathion given that he is legit a boss in the raid, and called The Black Emperor.

pretty much this, i always knew "it was too easy" since i did the Wrathion quest chain back in Cata or MoP cant remember. It was too fishy for me at that time so when the whisper came i knew it was about wrathion.

[reploid]

Pretty sure at this point it's obviously Wrathion given that he is legit a boss in the raid, and called The Black Emperor.

The fight with wrathion is an illusion.

We knew that Wrathion somehow survived the encounter, as he has dialogue pertaining to the latter half of the raid. Some lines imply the fight was an illusion created by N'Zoth:
Magni: Yer back! What happened?
Wrathion: I learned that it doesn't take much for my friends to believe I betrayed them.
Wrathion: Doubt me if you must, but know that I will not rest until his smoldering corpse lies at my feet.
Wrathion: Champions, that vision was as much for me as it was for you. N'Zoth wants us to believe that my corruption is inevitable.

[Muajin76]

WTB spoilers for 8.2.5 ~

[GreenJesus]

lol wait what? is Thrall the new Gul'dan? hahaha.. Thrall took the Horde from Sylvanas just to have them drink old god juice.. oh my sides... "HONOR" am I right??

[reploid]

during a scenario called the horrific vision of nzoth...not real, but a dream of what may come to pass if he wins.

[Veluren]

Wrathion flat out doesn't permit you to go to Stormwind Keep in the visions, it's a sidetrack since the Stormwind one deals with Turalyon, Alleria and Arator, but Wrathion doesn't want to see a corrupted or dead Anduin.

[Kyphael]

The fight with wrathion is an illusion.

We knew that Wrathion somehow survived the encounter, as he has dialogue pertaining to the latter half of the raid. Some lines imply the fight was an illusion created by N'Zoth:
Magni: Yer back! What happened?
Wrathion: I learned that it doesn't take much for my friends to believe I betrayed them.
Wrathion: Doubt me if you must, but know that I will not rest until his smoldering corpse lies at my feet.
Wrathion: Champions, that vision was as much for me as it was for you. N'Zoth wants us to believe that my corruption is inevitable.

Ooh, interesting, as they can still play it both ways with Wrathion as the ultimate deceiver, unlike the roaring, stupid Cataclysm iteration of his father.

[Dismayxz]

lol wait what? is Thrall the new Gul'dan? hahaha.. Thrall took the Horde from Sylvanas just to have them drink old god juice.. oh my sides... "HONOR" am I right??

Read. It's just in the visions. So nothing really relevant to the current Story.

[reploid]

Wrathion flat out doesn't permit you to go to Stormwind Keep in the visions, it's a sidetrack since the Stormwind one deals with Turalyon, Alleria and Arator, but Wrathion doesn't want to see a corrupted or dead Anduin.

IMO thats even MORE fishy, and shows that they are hiding something.

[Thage]

Pretty sure at this point it's obviously Wrathion given that he is legit a boss in the raid, and called The Black Emperor.

This. Wrathion is notorious for shady dealings and withholding valuable information from us, especially when he worked with both factions while fully intending for one to conquer the other, hedging his bets from one to the other as events unfolded. The lies in this case are more metaphorical/symbolic (as bullshit prophecies from Void characters tend to be): in Pandaria, he offered first the lie of hope that you had an ally in him, as he was fully prepared for and, at least at one point in the campaign, actively arranging for the enemy to conquer you. He also offered the second lie of hope that he would be here to aid us during the Legion invasion, where he was instead otherwise occupied. Finally, he offered the third lie of hope that the Void could be resisted with a simple potion, as his boss encounter puts paid to that lie--that he believed it true is immaterial in the grand picture. Il'gynoth never said that he sat at the table and offered lies knowingly and willingly.

In all three occasions, the lie he offers you is hope that is soon dashed against the rocks of reality. Hope being a big theme in the Battle for Azeroth expansion, namely how it is ultimately all the heroes have to cling to as the Void encroaches and Death runs rampant thanks to Sylvanas's scheming and machinations, it's telling that one of the stronger candidates for Il'gynoth's prophecy regarding the boy king not only isn't the red herring we've been built up to expect/suspect, but also one who operates in ignorance of his role in the prophecy, since blind eyes being opened ("open your eyes" being a common phrase to insinuate the listener is being willfully ignorant of unpleasant truths) are another theme running with N'zoth.

But that's just my rum-influenced, quickly-cobbled together train of thought.

"The light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies. The Void seeks every possible path and sees them all as truth."

Just cause Il'gynoth has weird prophetic shit to say doesn't necessarily mean that anything he says is true.

Granted, a lot of what he said in legion ended up happening but just like with real life, don't take anything at face value.

Also possible. Il'gynoth, like any proper true Void entity, likely sees all concurrent timelines and, much like Bronze Dragons can, might get the timelines mixed up or offer you information superfluous to your current timeline (like when we're told we basically got the worst possible Garrosh and in another timeline he's the greatest Warchief in the Horde's history, a true dyed-in-the-wool hero who loved and was loved by many, not that that is particularly helpful for us to know that the prime timeline screwed the pooch so badly), in the event it was about Anduin.

[Nathasil]

All my hope for this "prophecy" died when they pretty much confirmed that the "first lie" was when Anduin said he had to fill his father's shoes and become King of Stormwind - because supposedly, no, he does not "have to", he is free to make his choices.

While this is true in the most litteral sense of words, nobody in their right mind would call it a "lie". It's like if somebody says "I have to go to the toilet". No, man, you're totally lying! Nobdy is forcing you to use the bathroom! You can really just shit your pants right here! You are - litterally - full of shit for saying "I have to go to the toilet".

Serving at the table is obviously a metaphor for Anduin in his role as King of Stormwind will do his part to feed N'Zoth - as we (the players) all have done. It was our Necklace that freed him. That does not make us N'Zoth's servants. It just means we are fucking stupid (or "written to be fucking stupid" if you prefer).

Really, i said it before and i will say it again: They originally only had dark whispers about what the Horde/Sylvanas would do (as that was all they cared about in BFA) - so they pushed in some totally meaningless bullshit about the Alliance/Anduin just to pretend parity (as they always do).

[FelPlague]

lol wait what? is Thrall the new Gul'dan? hahaha.. Thrall took the Horde from Sylvanas just to have them drink old god juice.. oh my sides... "HONOR" am I right??

do you even know whats going on? thrall doesent actually do that, that is just nzoths vision of how he wants things to go.

[reploid]

This. Wrathion is notorious for shady dealings and withholding valuable information from us, especially when he worked with both factions while fully intending for one to conquer the other, hedging his bets from one to the other as events unfolded. The lies in this case are more metaphorical/symbolic (as bullshit prophecies from Void characters tend to be): in Pandaria, he offered first the lie of hope that you had an ally in him, as he was fully prepared for and, at least at one point in the campaign, actively arranging for the enemy to conquer you. He also offered the second lie of hope that he would be here to aid us during the Legion invasion, where he was instead otherwise occupied. Finally, he offered the third lie of hope that the Void could be resisted with a simple potion, as his boss encounter puts paid to that lie--that he believed it true is immaterial in the grand picture. Il'gynoth never said that he sat at the table and offered lies knowingly and willingly.

In all three occasions, the lie he offers you is hope that is soon dashed against the rocks of reality. Hope being a big theme in the Battle for Azeroth expansion, namely how it is ultimately all the heroes have to cling to as the Void encroaches and Death runs rampant thanks to Sylvanas's scheming and machinations, it's telling that one of the stronger candidates for Il'gynoth's prophecy regarding the boy king not only isn't the red herring we've been built up to expect/suspect, but also one who operates in ignorance of his role in the prophecy, since blind eyes being opened ("open your eyes" being a common phrase to insinuate the listener is being willfully ignorant of unpleasant truths) are another theme running with N'zoth.

But that's just my rum-influenced, quickly-cobbled together train of thought.


Also possible. Il'gynoth, like any proper true Void entity, likely sees all concurrent timelines and, much like Bronze Dragons can, might get the timelines mixed up or offer you information superfluous to your current timeline (like when we're told we basically got the worst possible Garrosh and in another timeline he's the greatest Warchief in the Horde's history, a true dyed-in-the-wool hero who loved and was loved by many, not that that is particularly helpful for us to know that the prime timeline screwed the pooch so badly), in the event it was about Anduin.

Did you miss the part where the wrathion encounter was an illusion? he never served at the master's table..hes not the boy king, anduin is.

[Nathasil]

...

https://www.wowhead.com/item=156852/...-dream-journal

This is the source i referred to by saying "they pretty much confirmed that the "first lie" was when Anduin said he had to fill his father's shoes".

Back when it was added, some people believed it referred to Sargeras/Illidan/Argus or whatever else they saw fit connected to some throne..but none of these characters ever were in any way, shape or form mentioned in relation to "3 lies" and the page directly before it refers to Sylvanas, so it makes sense that out of sheer necessity they devoted the next page to Anduin.

[Soon-TM]

lol wait what? is Thrall the new Gul'dan? hahaha.. Thrall took the Horde from Sylvanas just to have them drink old god juice.. oh my sides... "HONOR" am I right??

So true lmao. At least let a couple of xpacs between one Warchief gargling on Old God cock and the next one

[Eapoe]

The fight with wrathion is an illusion.

We knew that Wrathion somehow survived the encounter, as he has dialogue pertaining to the latter half of the raid. Some lines imply the fight was an illusion created by N'Zoth:
Magni: Yer back! What happened?
Wrathion: I learned that it doesn't take much for my friends to believe I betrayed them.
Wrathion: Doubt me if you must, but know that I will not rest until his smoldering corpse lies at my feet.
Wrathion: Champions, that vision was as much for me as it was for you. N'Zoth wants us to believe that my corruption is inevitable.

I love the line “...my friends...”. Isn’t he the one who facilitated the alternate universe travel for Garrosh in hopes of finding an army to take on the Burning Legion. Someone explained he hoped our universe timeline would join that one, but it’s pretty obvious that they would have just fought anyone that got in their way. Just seems kind of hypocritical, for lack of a better word.