Mist of Pandaria had the best gear system

[Bodakane]

I miss reforging, gems slots and enchants.

[Radaney]

Dare I say Mists of Pandaria had the best everything, except healers and vengeance were both a bit too strong.

I solo'd half of mythic Siege on my resto druid.

[rarhyx]

I liked wotlk gearing system the most
only didnt like the 10/25 nhc/hc man split

[kiramon]

Dare I say Mists of Pandaria had the best everything.

Definitely the best mw iteration

[msdos]

I feel like TF was added so tanks and healers and people in general would continue to run 5 mans and older raids, because let's be serious here, once you have your gear, you stop going into the dungeons and there's no reason to farm the raids other than legendaries. The only exception was Mechanaar runs for badges and other obvious, mandatory things like rep.

There's a fundamental problem with loot. It's very boring. The only fun loot that ever appears in the game are quest items and legendaries, the toys are gated off. The loot is just designed so poorly, anyone can see it, it even seeps into the professions.
M+ would've been a great solution to this, except they turned it into a competition gauntlet and the affixes aren't even random, they only change weekly and they still aren't random; in other words, they fell just short of actual prefix dungeons. Everything in BFA falls just short.

[Anastacy]

Now you are getting it!
But there is already solutions right now, that is alternate pieces with better secondaries for you.

That’s always been an option. The “solution” of reforging is for the problem of when those items don’t drop for you.

[Stabbyfists]

I been playing Final Fantasy XIV since February and cleared all the Savage mode content (basically Mythic mode for that game)

The way it handles gear and loot is way way healthier for the casual player.


If you kill the boss, it drops loot as per normal but it also automatically places a "Book" in your inventory. These are given to everyone who killed the boss regardless if they got loot or not. Gear does not gain random item levels, or random stats and the best part is if you don't get loot from those bosses, the books, after getting a few that week, can be purchased with those books to get the piece you want. This makes farm night not a chore, and repeat kills even desirable until you're fully geared.

Then again FFXIV lets you play ALL classes on 1 character so going in for repeat kills for off spec jobs is not as big a chore as it is for WoW

[exochaft]

It was implemented to give players more freedom in gearing due to the obstacle of hit/ex. Prior to the reforge system to where a piece was ether unwanted or sat in a player's bag until they had another piece or multiple pieces of gear to balance out their loadout.

So excuse me for preferring to not have a potential upgrade sit in my bag for months due to the limitations of the hit/exp system.

I completely understand that the initial reason for the reforging system not applying anymore, but the reason for its removal was a rather empty reason, especially if you look at gearing today. The reason for removing reforging was basically Blizz didn't want people to need an addon/simulation to put on a new piece of gear, or have to stop your content to alter a newly acquired piece... however, we still do all these things even in BfA. I've lost track of how many simulations I've had to do in BfA because the hope of "highest ilvl usually wins" almost never works unless you're replacing the same item with a higher ilvl. I still have WF/TF items in my bags that I cannot equip because their stat itemization is so bad that they don't even come close to lower ilvl items I'm wearing.

Here's the crux of the problem: stat balancing is so crazy that ilvl doesn't really matter, exacerbated by the WF/TF system and sockets, etc. Since stats balancing is so crazy, many classes need one or two stats to appear on gear else the item has zero chance of being useful, made worse by the presence of a socket. Reforging could alleviate this issue, allowing you to change the secondaries on an item so it does end up in the scrapper or on a vendor despite being "better" due to ilvl. Now, if Blizz could make ilvl matter much more with gear, there wouldn't be a need for reforging... but that currently is not the case at all. I also feel that he new corruption system is basically making this scenario worse, to where the ilvl and the secondary stats won't matter in comparison to the corruption on said items, but that's another diatribe.

More on topic with the OP, I think the MoP/WoD system of WF/TF was a much more reasonable system, as it accomplishes gear progression if you're stuck on a difficulty while also making increasing the difficulty always more rewarding (aka, heroic WF/TF gets you close to mythic gear but is still inferior to mythic baseline gear). The only content that needs a wide range of WF/TF scaling is the M+, so the loot system actually adjusts to the content. However, even the M+ cache sort of follows the MoP rules, as you can get pretty close to mythic raid weapons but mythic raiding will always give you higher ilvl weapons (stat scaling aside).

I suppose this all comes down to what one thinks the WF/TF system is supposed to do. If I'm to believe it allows people stuck in content to still get upgrades and potentially help them move to the next content, not only should the cap on WF/TF be finite and bound to the difficulty where you got the item (otherwise why bother doing higher content if you can still get the best stuff?) but also there should be a player-controlled way to alter your gear in a similar fashion to WF/TF so you can have a guaranteed method to accomplish the goal of WF/TF while not being completely bound by RNG. I think the best achievement of these goals was when you could upgrade your gear twice with Valor Points. Ideally, if TF is limited to +10 ilvls with 15 ilvls between raid difficulties, allowing a system for players to increase the ilvl of gear up to +10 ilvls under this WF/TF system would be the best of both worlds.

Regardless, many systems look awesome in a vacuum yet failed when layered into all the WoW systems. At the same time, many systems that appear to suck on their own perform well when layered into all the WoW systems. With this in mind, I think the former WF/TF would work much better than the current incarnation with the systems in WoW today.

[Lurker1]

Warforge and reforging where great. After that everything went downhill.

I dont even have the desire to subscribe for 8.3 to that stupid corruption system.

So sad...

Nah i like this corrupted system more even LFR corrupted gear will be as strong as heroic lvl gear soon thats how broken it will be feels great man people were crying about titanforges but man this is alot worse but good for me!

[Kavenoff]

Honestly, I just want the old MoP upgrade system. Did Warforging count as upgrades for an item (i.e. makes it 2/4 or 4/4), or did it increase the max ilvl? If it counted as proper upgrades that just save you currency, then I want it back in that style.

[Nerovar]

MoP was pretty good. WoD had the best iteration of PvP gear though.

[Lurker1]

Mop had the first every legendary quest, and in the first tier some very good gear was locked behind weeks and weeks of repetitive dailies. No thanks.

These were the first steps towards the shitshow we have now.

Feels good man!

[kaminaris]

I completely understand that the initial reason for the reforging system not applying anymore, but the reason for its removal was a rather empty reason, especially if you look at gearing today. The reason for removing reforging was basically Blizz didn't want people to need an addon/simulation to put on a new piece of gear, or have to stop your content to alter a newly acquired piece... however, we still do all these things even in BfA. I've lost track of how many simulations I've had to do in BfA because the hope of "highest ilvl usually wins" almost never works unless you're replacing the same item with a higher ilvl. I still have WF/TF items in my bags that I cannot equip because their stat itemization is so bad that they don't even come close to lower ilvl items I'm wearing.

Here's the crux of the problem: stat balancing is so crazy that ilvl doesn't really matter, exacerbated by the WF/TF system and sockets, etc. Since stats balancing is so crazy, many classes need one or two stats to appear on gear else the item has zero chance of being useful, made worse by the presence of a socket. Reforging could alleviate this issue, allowing you to change the secondaries on an item so it does end up in the scrapper or on a vendor despite being "better" due to ilvl. Now, if Blizz could make ilvl matter much more with gear, there wouldn't be a need for reforging... but that currently is not the case at all. I also feel that he new corruption system is basically making this scenario worse, to where the ilvl and the secondary stats won't matter in comparison to the corruption on said items, but that's another diatribe.

More on topic with the OP, I think the MoP/WoD system of WF/TF was a much more reasonable system, as it accomplishes gear progression if you're stuck on a difficulty while also making increasing the difficulty always more rewarding (aka, heroic WF/TF gets you close to mythic gear but is still inferior to mythic baseline gear). The only content that needs a wide range of WF/TF scaling is the M+, so the loot system actually adjusts to the content. However, even the M+ cache sort of follows the MoP rules, as you can get pretty close to mythic raid weapons but mythic raiding will always give you higher ilvl weapons (stat scaling aside).

I suppose this all comes down to what one thinks the WF/TF system is supposed to do. If I'm to believe it allows people stuck in content to still get upgrades and potentially help them move to the next content, not only should the cap on WF/TF be finite and bound to the difficulty where you got the item (otherwise why bother doing higher content if you can still get the best stuff?) but also there should be a player-controlled way to alter your gear in a similar fashion to WF/TF so you can have a guaranteed method to accomplish the goal of WF/TF while not being completely bound by RNG. I think the best achievement of these goals was when you could upgrade your gear twice with Valor Points. Ideally, if TF is limited to +10 ilvls with 15 ilvls between raid difficulties, allowing a system for players to increase the ilvl of gear up to +10 ilvls under this WF/TF system would be the best of both worlds.

Regardless, many systems look awesome in a vacuum yet failed when layered into all the WoW systems. At the same time, many systems that appear to suck on their own perform well when layered into all the WoW systems. With this in mind, I think the former WF/TF would work much better than the current incarnation with the systems in WoW today.

And that would be a problem because reforging essentially removed "bad" gear, right now you have good, mediocre and bad gear, with reforging you only had mediocre and good gear.

Plus you are taking perspective from one or two classes. Check stat weights for all classes and then see how distribution is done. For example demo lock has nearly the same stat weights for all secondary stats. While warriors value crit above everything. Even then saying that other stats are useless is dumb. Stamina is greatly underestimated these days. Had many wipes where having slightly higher health would allow 1-2 people to survive. But thats the problem with people - "unless it has the stats i need it's shit".

No you don't that 1% more dps if you are dying to some mechanic. You need stamina and skill to be alive for entire of fight.

This is a good itemization.

In mop if you had ilvl upgrade it was almost always upgrade because reforging made bad items into mediocre items and since their stat budget was higher and you needed that hit cap anyways you could almost be sure it was upgrade.

And no, MoP WF/TF system wasn't enough to help bad players overcome challenge.

[GreenJesus]

Would you rather have the option to turn a shitty item into a not so shitty item or not just because you "feel forced convulsion" to upgrade it RIGHT NOW and have to waste the raids time town don't want the system in? When without the system you would have just been using a shitty item or using the lower item level item instead. How is "I had to teleport out of the raid for a minute" a good excuse? Plus, we have reforge yacks anyway.

[Weatherwax]

Warforge and reforging where great. After that everything went downhill.

I dont even have the desire to subscribe for 8.3 to that stupid corruption system.

So sad...

Amen, brother. Best gearing system and best class development. Oh man, classes were so much fun to play in MoP. Somebody ditch the current team and bring those guys back ASAP.

[Shelly]

MoP Destro lock was #1 most fun spec I have ever played.

I miss it so bad.

I liked that AoE and Single Target were baseline. You just clicked a button to activate AoE.

The current system killed warlocks for me. Just dull as fuck. Having to talent for AoE is just fucking F tier level of stupid.

- - - Updated - - -



Respectfully... I disagree with your last paragraph.

All classes rotation have no life to it. It is easier by a billion miles. They made specs so simple that anyone can buy a boosted toon and master it within a 1/2 of a level.

There's no nuance. There's no charm. There's no feel.

And that's a reasonable feeling and honestly some classes do need some work, I'd say your warlock complaint regarding AoE is entirely justified.

Yet I think back to my Fury warrior and while there are a lot of people that absolutely loved it I can't help but think that it had so many buttons that the priority became obtuse.

[Varitok]

Reforging was stupid. All it did was give you an obstacle before you could wear a piece of gear, and it just turned out like anything else. Everyone just used a tool to do it for them.

I disagree, Reforging turned a piece of gear that I otherwise wouldn't want into one that could be decent. It added depth and just because people automated it doesn't make it bad. Depth is not bad.

Mists of Pandaria just so happened to be peak WoW for me. It was an absolutely amazing expansion. The Theme, music, gearing, class design. Everything lined up perfectly to make the best experience i've ever had with a game. Hands down.

[McNeil]

I didn't care about gearing in MoP. I'd say TBC and WotLK had it right without having all these same items that are either stronger and weaker, you could get good unique gear from every difficulty. The badge system is still very much missed to this day.

[Exkrementor]

Reforging was stupid. All it did was give you an obstacle before you could wear a piece of gear, and it just turned out like anything else. Everyone just used a tool to do it for them.

Reforging was a sollution to a problem created in WOTLK. With hit on trinkets and such it was no rarity to have 18% hit as ret pally and that was just a waste.
But reforging was pretty good. It allowed you to wear pretty much every item as long as it was a higher itemlevel. That is exactly what blizzard devs want to happen now but now you have to sim every item after you get it and sometimes 30 itemlevel more are not an upgrade.
Reforging in BFA would fix a lot of loot issues.

[Zakajz]

Reforging was great coupled with haste thresholds for dots and snapshotting.

I'm missing the different mage bombs and haste requirements for additional ticks. I MISS the original Nether Tempest a lot.

MoP best expansion ever, anybody that says otherwise cant see past pandas or didn't play it.