The Brexit aftermath thread

[Northern Goblin]

Though if it were up to, me I'd honestly offer the Premiership to Nicola Sturgeon since she seems to be the only competent executive official in the United Kingdom at present, and the SNP the only party taking anything remotely seriously.

Jesus.fucking.no.

She's a single issue politician with small person syndrome and rattles the independence sabre so fucking hard so people ignore what a poor job the SNP does in Scotland.

They don't want the Union in the first place, giving them the charge of it would be a disaster.

[Elegiac]

Jesus.fucking.no.

She's a single issue politician with small person syndrome and rattles the independence sabre so fucking hard so people ignore what a poor job the SNP does in Scotland.

They don't want the Union in the first place, giving them the charge of it would be a disaster.

Then it should be telling that she's apparently the most competent executive official the United Kingdom has to offer at present.

[Northern Goblin]

Then it should be telling that she's apparently the most competent executive official the United Kingdom has to offer at present.

Considering the only 3 executives are her Johnson and Drakeford, that's not really a glowing endorsement for her, being better than two imbeciles doesn't really stand up as a measuring stick of any form of competency.

She should have gone with sexpest Salmond after the 2014 referendum. The only reason she doesn't look as bad is because they play constant distraction tactics over Brexit and 2R to cover up a lack of effective policy.

If revoke happened tomorrow, the SNP would be fucked. Because they wouldn't have smoke and mirrors to hide behind, and would go back to being a single issue party that bled seats at the last GE.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Didn't you say this wouldn't be an "all about Brexit" General Election? I'm sure you were wittering on about zero hour contracts and food banks and NHS privatisation and so many other irrelevant things just a couple of days ago. And yet here you are coming around to my way of thinking that this election will be only about Brexit, making posts referencing it that mention nothing but Brexit as if that's the only point of it.

Let's agree to call it what you and I agree it is. An exclusively Brexit election, almost a second referendum wouldn't you say? And when you lose, again, with Boris elected in an outright majority it will be difficult to do a Swinson and not respect the result.

Ironic the result will be declared on, unlucky for some, Friday 13th. Tell me do you feel lucky? One of us will be.

This election will be about the real issues, not the fake one that the Tories created to avoid splitting their party. But the issue of Brexit is critical to the Tories election; can you see the difference? Labour can run this campaign primarily on what they will do to fix all the things the Tories have broken in the last 9 years. They can make this about hope for the future and a move to a society that's fairer. The Tories will be constantly fighting to avoid the opponents either side of them taking bites out of their voting base.

And I can't wait until Boris gets into debates. I just can't stress this enough. Put him on TV in a debate with all the rest and that will knock 5% off the Tory vote right there. In the meantime Labour just needs to point out that the Tories manifesto is being written by a lobbyist for fracking companies and other big business. That their form of Brexit will let them undermine workers rights. Point out the contacts that they've already made with the US about stitching the NHS up even more.

And if someone talks to a Labour prospective MP and asks what they will do about Brexit? They can say that they will negotiate (with different red lines) and get one that will protect working class people to keep the Brexit voters happy. And point out that it will still have to go to a confirmatory referendum, to keep the Remain voters happy. The only party that has a position on Brexit that will allow them to do that.

The lead was 20-25% at the start of the last one, and 1% on the night. Turning over this lead this time is not only possible, I believe it's probable. And ANY other outcome than a Boris majority means Brexit dies in a ditch like it deserves to. Even a small Boris majority may not make it certain, if he can't keep all of his party online (even if they are moving to purge disbelievers as we speak, against the wishes of their local groups).

Do I feel lucky? Given the state of play, I don't feel like I need to be. You on the other hand need a whole set of things to go your way to avoid being severely disappointed.

[Demolitia]

Good news everyone!
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50219036

[Gorsameth]

Damn, I genuinely feel sorry for you guys. I mean sure it's your fault, and it's not like I care much about Christmas or the weeks leading to it anyway, but another bloody British election campaign-war during the time of the year where people are supposed to calm down and end the year somewhat reconciled? You don't deserve this. It's super tasteless, even if you are not religious.

Could have waited till January, at least.

January leaves even less time for a new government to sort itself out before having to request a new extension.

And it means that parties will actually be campaigning during Christmas and the new year, instead of ending before that. Its an even worse solution to your problem then the actual date.

[Demolitia]

Heck if they have a hang parliament on Dec 12th, what happens after? Boris gets two weeks then Corbyn gets two weeks etc? Would they even have a government in place in time to ask for YET ANOTHER EXTENSION???

Parliament could potentially ask the speaker to request it I think

[Demolitia]

It's all so very droll.

Would anything really surprise at this point ?

[Demolitia]

Competence.

That would be something!

[Skroe]

John Bercow is one of the best de-facto ambassadors at large the United Kingdom and British Parliamentary democracy could hope for. Parliament is the poorer for his retirement. His fierce advocacy for democracy should be echoed far and wide.

[JohnBrown1917]

Then it should be telling that she's apparently the most competent executive official the United Kingdom has to offer at present.

oo
Americans thinking they know what a proper left-wing leader looks like is rather funny, you guys still consider corperate-backed candidates or former GoP members to be "left-wing".

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John Bercow is one of the best de-facto ambassadors at large the United Kingdom and British Parliamentary democracy could hope for. Parliament is the poorer for his retirement. His fierce advocacy for democracy should be echoed far and wide.

A conservative supporting a conservative? How surprising.

[Skroe]

oo
Americans thinking they know what a proper left-wing leader looks like is rather funny, you guys still consider corperate-backed candidates or former GoP members to be "left-wing".

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A conservative supporting a conservative? How surprising.

As is a e-Commie on the internet cheerleading a return to the Great Dragon that liberal-democratic free-market capitalism slew in the 20th century.

Seriously, reading your posts make me feel young again. It's like its 1996 and I'm on a BBS and reading the same pro-Communist hogwash that was tired even then.

Have I fallen through a time warp or something?

"Communism", in fact, won't win, seeing as the second greatest power of the 20th century, the Soviet Union, couldn't spread it, couldn't sustain it, and in the end utterly collapsed in on itself in one of the most significant imperial break-ups of the past thousand years.

Now this is the part where you tell me that the USSR wasn't really communist or something. So let's just skip to the end where you don't care for my witty retorts and in turn you spare me reading the same nonsense your type have been littering the Information Superhighway with since before Monica got a facial from Bill Clinton.

[gtempest]

This election will be about the real issues, not the fake one that the Tories created to avoid splitting their party. But the issue of Brexit is critical to the Tories election; can you see the difference? Labour can run this campaign primarily on what they will do to fix all the things the Tories have broken in the last 9 years. They can make this about hope for the future and a move to a society that's fairer. The Tories will be constantly fighting to avoid the opponents either side of them taking bites out of their voting base.

And I can't wait until Boris gets into debates. I just can't stress this enough. Put him on TV in a debate with all the rest and that will knock 5% off the Tory vote right there. In the meantime Labour just needs to point out that the Tories manifesto is being written by a lobbyist for fracking companies and other big business. That their form of Brexit will let them undermine workers rights. Point out the contacts that they've already made with the US about stitching the NHS up even more.

And if someone talks to a Labour prospective MP and asks what they will do about Brexit? They can say that they will negotiate (with different red lines) and get one that will protect working class people to keep the Brexit voters happy. And point out that it will still have to go to a confirmatory referendum, to keep the Remain voters happy. The only party that has a position on Brexit that will allow them to do that.

The lead was 20-25% at the start of the last one, and 1% on the night. Turning over this lead this time is not only possible, I believe it's probable. And ANY other outcome than a Boris majority means Brexit dies in a ditch like it deserves to. Even a small Boris majority may not make it certain, if he can't keep all of his party online (even if they are moving to purge disbelievers as we speak, against the wishes of their local groups).

Do I feel lucky? Given the state of play, I don't feel like I need to be. You on the other hand need a whole set of things to go your way to avoid being severely disappointed.

I actually disagree, that is what the election should be about however the tory propoganda machine won't want to fight on the real issues, it's best chance of sucess is to paint the narrative of it being about making a strong government to deliver brexit and we already know from opinion polls that a large section of the electorate dont give a crap about anything other than brexit, add in the traditional voters and anti labour and they will likely end up as largest party due to opposition split amongst 3 parties.
Boris isnt a good orator, he cant be truthful and he certainly doesnt understand working class issues, if i were his advisor i would push the torys vs parliament narrative, continue the lies and dont engage people like corbyn and swinson on the real issues as his ineptitude will cost him votes.
Also a strong brexit position will help to alleviate the divided vote to brexit party which should be their biggest concern imo.

[kaid]

John Bercow is one of the best de-facto ambassadors at large the United Kingdom and British Parliamentary democracy could hope for. Parliament is the poorer for his retirement. His fierce advocacy for democracy should be echoed far and wide.

Can't blame the man for wanting off the crazy train though.

[Jessicka]

Yes, the glorious American empire has conquered all!

In Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan the US defeated the enemy hordes by spreading its soldier's limbs all over the battlefield and then running away.

USA! USA! USA!

In Soviet Russia free market capitalism ovethrew capitalism by collapsing two years after it was instituted then being replaced with authoritarian nationalism!

Don’t. There’s no point trying to explain social democracy to someone who equates it to communism, especially when they’re a fierce nationalist from a nation who just wants to consume the planet. And to whom it doesn’t even concern.

If he’s happy with America sailing so close to fascism it terrifies the rest of us, I guess that’s fine, he’s in the group they won’t be coming for.

[Noradin]

No, it could be that leave gets 60% in that scenario but fails to attain the threshold, so there's no result.

I think we miscommunicated.

I pointed out that if 2/3 are needed to leave, then reaching 1/3 for remain is all it takes to block leaving, no matter how many votes they get.

Obviously, if it does not attain the participation threshold, then it is undecided, no matter the relative result.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Rumors are now circulating that the Brexit Party will switch its focus from standing in every seat to concentrating on a handful of seats that they have a decent chance on winning.

On Wednesday morning, party campaigners were sent the following message, which has been seen by CNN. "Message from HQ... IMPORTANT. Please go DARK on social media. DO NOT respond to any questions about where we are standing, what the strategy or plan is from now. Things will be made clear to all PPCs very soon. #changepoliticsforgood."

Focusing on a small selection of seats might be a sensible strategy, but it could look to be a humiliating turnaround for a party that has talked a huge game since the spring.

Curious if the people who paid £££ for the privilege of applying to be a Brexit Party LTD MP will get their money refunded?

[Demolitia]

Can't blame the man for wanting off the crazy train though.

Maybe he thought Westminster would become the new Stormont and he feared he'd be stuck there for another 10 years, but this time alone because nobody ever shows up or elect another speaker.

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Curious if the people who paid £££ for the privilege of applying to be a Brexit Party LTD MP will get their money refunded?

They'll get a free Farage funkopop to put in their little Brexit shrine as a compensation

[Skroe]

Don’t. There’s no point trying to explain social democracy to someone who equates it to communism, especially when they’re a fierce nationalist from a nation who just wants to consume the planet. And to whom it doesn’t even concern.

If he’s happy with America sailing so close to fascism it terrifies the rest of us, I guess that’s fine, he’s in the group they won’t be coming for.

Who is doing that? Certainly not I. Social democracy is not remotely the same thing as communism. Social Democracy is one of the major political movements of the post-war era, and a key component in ideological side of the 20th century struggle against communism. Social Democracy was and remains a key ideological antidote to key arguments that Communism made to justify itself. It arose in no small part because people of good consciousness agreed with aspects Communism's diagnosis about what was wrong, but strongly differed as to the correct medicament.

Social democracy is not my cup of tea, but that doesn't make it anything other than one of many hugely legitimate, entirely sensible democratic approaches to self government. Conflating Social Democracy and Communism is something, in fact, the radical right does in order to delegitimize it. Social Democracy is not a gateway to Communism and the two are not cousins.

I was responding to someone whose name is "CommunismWillWin", for crying out loud. They are not espousing Social Democracy, and I was not assailing Social Democracy either.

[JohnBrown1917]

Don’t. There’s no point trying to explain social democracy to someone who equates it to communism, especially when they’re a fierce nationalist from a nation who just wants to consume the planet. And to whom it doesn’t even concern.

If he’s happy with America sailing so close to fascism it terrifies the rest of us, I guess that’s fine, he’s in the group they won’t be coming for.

To the US government. "fighting communism" is just an excuse to gain power or to commit ethnic cleansing. Vietnam being the best example of it.