Factions stay, no cross-faction mode

[Doffen]

Giving you the benefit of doubt, assuming that the 2 queues were done with the same roles for the same wing and forming a brand New group (so not being a replacement) this still is a very small sample size, well, literally one occasion.

If queues were regurarly an hour longer on average then sure.
But I highly doubt thats the case normally.

It is normally the case that the que time is far longer on the Alliance side. Both was damage. Different wings, but as a new group. And the queue for BGs are a lot lower than that, even when the there isn't enlistment bonus on Alliance, which hasn't happened for a while, it's 4-8mins depending on time of the day.

I do LFR fairly often, not a LFR hero, but love to raid, and the queue time for LFR on the Alliance side has skyrocketed since Legion. As horde it has stayed the same. It is an issue just as much as for Battlegrounds. I would say normally its 40 minutes vs 10 if we are generous, as damage. Healer and tank is quite lower, for both sides.

[Nebron]

Interview from Preach and Bay:


From 8.30.

So after Shadowlands it will be another silly faction war. Such a missed opportunity.

What do you feel?

Thankfully.

I can't think of a worse idea than cross-faction.

[Wyrt]

letting people PVE together doesnt upend the faction barrier, as long as they cant PVP together and the factions still exist as they always have, its still there.

But people already can PvP together. It's called Mercenary Mode.

It really is quite ridiculous that there's cross faction PvP, but not PvE.

[Tolfor]

$30 faction transfers. Activision will never let them cut that revenue stream off. There are some crazies out there who will spend that on all of their alts.

You: "Activision will never allow the WoW team to make it easier to level; that would cut the revenue stream from paid level boosts off."
Blizzard: [halves the level cap and reduces the amount of time taken to level a new character to the endgame by 70%]

Seriously, that's not the reason the factions aren't getting merged/phased out. "Some crazies out there" is not a profit model compelling enough to make that sort of decision around.

[Doffen]

You: "Activision will never allow the WoW team to make it easier to level; that would cut the revenue stream from paid level boosts off."
Blizzard: [halves the level cap and reduces the amount of time taken to level a new character to the endgame by 70%]

Seriously, that's not the reason the factions aren't getting merged/phased out. "Some crazies out there" is not a profit model compelling enough to make that sort of decision around.

I don't think that's one of the main reasons either, but it can help on a decision like that. And while we are on it, since leveling will go so much faster, then reduce the prices on the boost imo. Would make sense. Can you do that for us?(sounded like I asked you for it) :>

[Teekey]

Again for the last time:

It doesn't matter whether it's normal/hc/mythic level. On any given level, the Alliance has a more casual approach towards the content.
This is the point.

LOL. I don't care how many times you repeat it, you have literally ZERO evidence to actually back up the claim that Alliance players by default are 'more casual'. You just insisting it's true means nothing. So stop saying it.

We do however have evidence that top guilds and competitive players have been fleeing Alliance.

[Sluvs]

LOL. No, at this point, it's a gameplay limitation and not a lore change. Because we've been fighting in 'combined' armies for over a decade now.

I don't think they should get rid of factions at all. But they should be able to group for PvE content, which we've been effectively doing IN THE LORE for a long while now.

Let's also just conveniently ignore that Mercenary mode exists for PvP.

Mercenary mode is a band-aid fix to a problem, it's not recognized ANYWHERE but there.

The gameplay limitation exist for world building and lore reasons. That is the point, it has been said multiple times.

We are also constantly at each others throats, We've been fighting each other for over a decade too.

Good luck convincing a NE to partner up with an undead, or a Kul tiran with an orc. There is way too much bad blood between the factions, no matter how much you try to handwave it away.

[Teekey]

The gameplay limitation exist for world building and lore reasons. That is the point, it has been said multiple times.

It exists because Blizzard makes a lot of money off Faction transfers. That's literally it.

I have zero doubt they'd change it if they felt it would make them more money.

We are also constantly at each others throats, We've been fighting each other for over a decade too.

Good luck convincing a NE to partner up with an undead, or a Kul tiran with an orc. There is way too much bad blood between the factions, no matter how much you try to handwave it away.

Factions can still exist. War Mode and PvP can still exist. You can just roleplay being at each other's throats and refuse to group with Horde, I don't really give a shit. I just want a healthier game, and some whiny RPers isn't a compelling reason not to improve the game.

I don't need to handwave anything. Blizzard has literally had use fighting side by side with each other. AND WE'RE DOING IT YET AGAIN IN SHADOWLANDS. Everyone in the same Covenant is going to be holding hands and working together. So much for the bad blood, huh?

[Sluvs]

It exists because Blizzard makes a lot of money off Faction transfers. That's literally it.



Factions can still exist. War Mode and PvP can still exist.

You can just roleplay being at each other's throats and refuse to group with Horde, I don't really give a shit. I just want a healthier game.

The bolded part is speculation at best, conspiracy theory at worst.

And the latter part is just incredibly dismissive. The divide is the point of the game. Warcraft was built on that. Horde vs alliance theme would become incredibly toothless if they removed such a thing.

[Cæli]

I hope they do something for faction imbalance. should have been the right moment to remove combat related racials. or maybe make one faction more powerful again to balance it and THEN remove permanently this gameplay

[burek]

Good luck convincing a NE to partner up with an undead, or a Kul tiran with an orc. There is way too much bad blood between the factions, no matter how much you try to handwave it away.

There is no reason to try to convince such roleplayers anything. Cross faction pve wouldn't affect them at all. Not having anyone to play with on your realm/faction is a much bigger issue than some shitty 'faction pride' idiots masturbate to.

[Teekey]

The bolded part is speculation at best, conspiracy theory at worst.

No, it's just being realistic.

And the latter part is just incredibly dismissive. The divide is the point of the game. Warcraft was built on that. Horde vs alliance theme would become incredibly toothless if they removed such a thing.

It's been toothless for atleast a decade. They've bastardized the idea of a "faction war" beyond recognition.

I don't know why you refuse to recognize that. You want to claim Lore Lore Lore! while ignoring that the lore actually supports the argument for cross faction PvE more than it doesn't at this point.

I get that it's Warcraft, but Blizzard themselves are the ones that have trampled all over that. So there's no need to keep the charade going.

[Unlimited Power]

I get that they want to keep the "war" in warcraft, however redundant that is given we've always been at war with something regardless of the faction war. But they could quite easily allow players to use the mercenary system to play with their friends cross faction without it destroying their precious faction war.

[Sluvs]

No, it's just being realistic.



It's been toothless for atleast a decade. They've bastardized the idea of a "faction war" beyond recognition.

I don't know why you refuse to recognize that. You want to claim Lore Lore Lore! while ignoring that the lore actually supports the argument for cross faction PvE more than it doesn't at this point.

I get that it's Warcraft, but Blizzard themselves are the ones that have trampled all over that. So there's no need to keep the charade going.

Lol, no it's not. You are literally pulling that out of nowhere to justify your anger towards a system.

Oh, has it? Well I must have imagined all the posts in legion claiming that the alliance was betrayed. Oh, and also all the people that fiercely defended sylvannas during BfA. Face it, the divide matter to a lot of players and it's definitely not toothless.

The lore does not support that whatsoever. The lore support combined efforts, but a mixed raid? It does not. And even in those combined efforts they fuck with each other a lot, just take a look at the siege in suramar, each side hate each others guts.

There is no reason to try to convince such roleplayers anything. Cross faction pve wouldn't affect them at all. Not having anyone to play with on your realm/faction is a much bigger issue than some shitty 'faction pride' idiots masturbate to.

It's not about roleplayers, it's about lore reasons. Faction pride, not matter how much you guys try to dismiss it is VITAL to WoW. Period.

[Wyrt]

It's not about roleplayers, it's about lore reasons. Faction pride, not matter how much you guys try to dismiss it is VITAL to WoW. Period.

So, if they allowed cross faction grouping the "MUH FACTIONS" people could, you know, just choose not to group with people from the other factions.

[burek]

It's not about roleplayers, it's about lore reasons. Faction pride, not matter how much you guys try to dismiss it is VITAL to WoW. Period.

What's vital to WoW is having people to play with.

[Ealyssa]

I hope they do something for faction imbalance. should have been the right moment to remove combat related racials. or maybe make one faction more powerful again to balance it and THEN remove permanently this gameplay

They just can't. Faction imbalance doesn't come from racial or whatever scapegoat people are throwing.

It comes from people at high level of gameplays (mythic raiding, MM+, rated PVP) not wanting to be split. With the years and the population of world of warcraft coming down they are less players, and less players at higher level. If you want to still take a reasonable time to create a group or form a guild, why the fuck would you cut yourself from half of the playerbase ?

So at the very start, yes big guild jumped horde for racial. But them people followed them because players attract players. Simple as that.

You can't balance faction, because players simply don't want to be split in a vastly PVE dominated game.

[Teekey]

Oh, has it? Well I must have imagined all the posts in legion claiming that the alliance was betrayed. Oh, and also all the people that fiercely defended sylvannas during BfA. Face it, the divide matter to a lot of players and it's definitely not toothless.

It's toothless because every expansion we just end up working together anyways.

The fact that they had to shoehorn some nonsensical shit that everyone criticized (Burning of Teldrassil) to reignite the faction war for BFA just proves how dumb it's gotten.

And speaking of the Burning of Teldrassil, please explain how ANY Druid would remain loyal to the Horde?

The lore does not support that whatsoever. The lore support combined efforts, but a mixed raid? It does not. And even in those combined efforts they fuck with each other a lot, just take a look at the siege in suramar, each side hate each others guts.

LOL. In the lore we've essentially had mixed raids. We were all members of the Army of the Light, for example. It's hand-waved and prevented in game, but when we're fighting the big baddie, as far as the lore is concerned, we're doing it as a combined force 9 times out of 10.

But no one is saying there can't still be tension and in-fighting. In fact, that might be 100x more interesting than the schlock-filled forced 'faction war' they keep giving us.

[Sluvs]

So, if they allowed cross faction grouping the "MUH FACTIONS" people could, you know, just choose not to group with people from the other factions.

And in a few months/years it would completely obliterate the horde vs alliance fantasy because people would simply hit the LFD button and that would be it.

You guys like to pretend that it would hurt the lore and the game. But it would destroy what makes WoW special.

What's vital to WoW is having people to play with.

You have plenty of people to play with. Stop pretending that you are always alone.

[Wyrt]

And in a few months/years it would completely obliterate the horde vs alliance fantasy because people would simply hit the LFD button and that would be it.

You guys like to pretend that it would hurt the lore and the game. But it would destroy what makes WoW special.

No. Blizzard already destroyed the factions with their god awful writing.

And it doesn't need to be allowed in LFD. Just let people choose to group together if they want, but otherwise auto-queue things would be just with your faction.