From a dev interview: "The Shadowlands is specifically made for mortal beings."

[Aucald]

i've always seen it rationalized as

mortal - subject to death by age and disease, being killed

immortal - subject to death by outside force, immune to age and disease

invincible - immune to death entirely.

I usually hear the middle term referring to as "natural immortality," as opposed to enforced immortality which is more akin to outright invincibility. There are a couple things in our world that are naturally immortal in that they're alive, but they don't age and won't die of natural causes as it were. They can still be killed by trauma or violence, but left to their own devices they'll persist forever. These include a specific type of jellyfish, Turritopsis dohrnii, that does not age and will live theoretically forever barring violence, some species of flatworm that don't even die from trauma with their pieces able to regenerate into clones of their original form, tardigrades, and the cells of most forms of cancer.

[Tabrotar]

I mean, we've only had like 26236 different, "The souls of the dead (in this particular region, I guess?) go to this one place run by this one God of the Dead person!" places in WoW so far.

So now we've got some kind of super extra special place that they go after they went to the first place, and none of these death related entities from before were REALLY the true keepers of souls or anything. (Even though they all say that they are and that they get power from the souls they consume and all this shit?)

Few years from now we'll have the Dark Death Domain of Darkest Darkness where souls REALLY go after Bwonsamdi takes them and gets his share and then funnels them to the Shadowlands where the Jailer or whoever gets his cut and then they go on their way to Bob in Accounting over in the DDDDD.

Sadly this, they give a shit about the lore and it only gets worse with every expansion...

[bullseyed]

"The Shadowlands is specifically made for mortal beings. Demons souls do not go there."

Then why do the Wild Gods and other spirits of nature go there?

Because... they're mortal? You can tell because they died. That's what being mortal is.

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Well, we obviously need a new word for "souls of natural or titanic origin", cause 'mortals' doesn't include all of those.

False. Any being subject to death is mortal.

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Well, that all depends on your definition of immortal. Because there are two.

"Cannot die."
and
"Stops aging after reaching adulthood, and cannot die from old age."

Draenei are the latter, and Nelves used to be.

Formal logical fallacy.

"Souls of mortals go there" has nothing to do with Tolkin immortality versus general immortality. The word immortal does not appear in the statement and is utterly irrelevant to the topic.

Mortal is "anyone who can die". So if you die, you're mortal.

[Gambit5555]

Or...and I'm just tossing this out here, everyone could quit fucking jumping to conclusions after half a word comes out of someone's mouth before anyone has even established any of the lore for this expansion. Shit, the whining and bitching on this forum is exhausting. They revealed the name of the expansion and little else. Lore hasn't been established or explained. Things that have been established in the past could be further expounded upon. Hell, history itself could change. This shit happens all the time in real life, but for it to happen in a game is Retcon!!. Oh, the vikings discovered America, not Columbus, total retcon!!! Oh wait, native Americans were there first, geez world, get your fucking lore right, retcon again. If people would just shut up and let Blizzard at least get the story out first, it would be easier to take some of the crying a bit more seriously

[bullseyed]

immortal wild god

No such thing. We have dead wild gods and wild god who haven't been killed yet. There are no immortal ones.

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Hmm, I think Azeroth's "mortals" represent Life, not the titans. We stopped representing the Titans when the Curse of Flesh hit us. We are not Order/Arcane. And as you say forces such as Arcane/Fel/Light/Void can make us immortal because that is kinda their thing... Life and Death are meant to recycle things. And that is why we cannot be "immortals". And that is why Cenarius goes to the Shadowlands. He represents Life. Shadowlands is the place where Life representatives go when they die. I think that is what they wanted to say.

And yes I know Kael'thas was very much into Arcane/Fel and Uther is all about the Light, but in their essences, they are still mortal beings in a shell of flesh. They aren't made up of Fel the way Demons are. Their blood is Fel.

No, they wanted to say mortals go to the shadowlands when they die.

Blizzard can't help that many mmo-c posters are too stupid to know what the word mortal means.

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They go there to be reborn. To be reborn they need to die first, making them mortal.

Which is why they needed the clarifying statement that demon souls don't go there. Because if they said "all mortals go there" it would include demons.


The demon version of the shadowlands just sends them back to life instead of processing their souls into mush. It is probably "broken" too and we'll go there in a future expansion to fix it.

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Mortal = can be killed
Not dying of old age and diseases, doesn't make one immortal.

Or even better, mortal and immortal are not opposites, nor mutually exclusive (depending on your definition of immortal).

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According to that definition nothing in the Warcraft universe is immortal, which is clearly not the case. It is VERY specifically described in the game that the Night Elves gave up their immortality to defeat the Legion's 2nd invasion. In addition, we are constantly referred to as mortals by enemies in a condescending way as though they are immortal and think mortals are worthless, we then proceed to kill them.

Immortal in WoW clearly means you don't die from age related causes.

Please bold the word "immortal" in the developer quote you're so triggered by.

Otherwise, maybe refrain from off-topic posting?

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Don't they use the term 'mortal' in game for just any non-God-Titan-deity individual irrespective of their mortal/immortal status?

I mean the titans call us mortals, but they can be killed aswell

The titans were "dead" during the Argus fight, yet they still sat there talking to us and casting spells. So apparently, they were never dead because they aren't subject to death (which means they aren't mortal).

[Wyrt]

Mortal is "anyone who can die". So if you die, you're mortal.

Then why have the distinction at all since literally everyone can die in Warcraft.

Demons die. Wild Gods die. Titans die. Old Gods die. Everything dies.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Anything that can die goes to the Shadowlands. Anything that has a backup/get out of dying card like the Twisted Nether for the Demons don't go there yet. But if a demon dies a true death like if they die while in the Nether than they'll still be forced to go to the Shadowlands and be judged. Nothing escapes the Arbiter's judgement, sooner or later everything dies a true death and becomes mortal.

[LiteTheWay]

What do Demon Hunters do in the Shadowlands?

Obviously not hunt Demons. Are they now Soul Hunters?

[Tolfor]

"The Shadowlands is specifically made for mortal beings. Demons souls do not go there."

Then why do the Wild Gods and other spirits of nature go there?

I feel like they are tripping over their own feet with new lore before they even get a chance to release it.

So you obviously only read the bullet points from that interview as they were written by the MMO-C staff. Here's what Steve Danuser actually said on the subject in the full interview (starting at this time - https://youtu.be/NlOwrv8YKEg?t=628):

Jesse: "Will there be non-Azeroth races in the Shadowlands - for example races from Draenor - or will it be mostly focused on the races from the world that we know?"
Steve: "So that's one of the interesting challenges of doing the Shadowlands as an expansion, is that it is the afterlife for all of... if you look at the cosmology chart it's called 'reality,' but I think of it as the 'mortal realm,' that has Azeroth and other worlds within it."

tl;dr (or dw) - the phrasing "mortal beings" was not actually used by Blizzard staff.

Y'all spent four pages arguing over an inaccurately-worded bullet point summary of a thirty-minute interview conducted by an unrelated third party. They even go on to directly address the Wild God question posed by OP immediately afterwards. This is embarrassing.

[Raetary]

No such thing.

You are implying that immortality has a dead-set definition.
Which it doesn't, especially not in fiction.

[valky94]

You still think they give a rat's ass about lore? They said Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination were forged in Shadowlands even though everyone knows they were made by the Legion!

and there is the posibility that both were created by nathrezim in the shadowlands, which we will probably find out questin in shadowlands

[derpkitteh]

I usually hear the middle term referring to as "natural immortality," as opposed to enforced immortality which is more akin to outright invincibility. There are a couple things in our world that are naturally immortal in that they're alive, but they don't age and won't die of natural causes as it were. They can still be killed by trauma or violence, but left to their own devices they'll persist forever. These include a specific type of jellyfish, Turritopsis dohrnii, that does not age and will live theoretically forever barring violence, some species of flatworm that don't even die from trauma with their pieces able to regenerate into clones of their original form, tardigrades, and the cells of most forms of cancer.

i've seen it referred to as biological immortality as well.

in fantasy, immortal usually amounts to this type of immortality. that's what basically every immortal in wow has been. even demons are this type of immortal, since they can be killed by force.

i don't think there is a single actual invincible, unkillable being in wow so far.

[Aucald]

i've seen it referred to as biological immortality as well.

in fantasy, immortal usually amounts to this type of immortality. that's what basically every immortal in wow has been. even demons are this type of immortal, since they can be killed by force.

i don't think there is a single actual invincible, unkillable being in wow so far.

Elune perhaps, or maybe the Void Lords, but that would be it. God-tier beings beyond the ability of mortals to even harm, who can only really exist in the physical universe through avatars or projections to begin with.

[Talrath]

But everyone can die. The distinction between mortal and immortal is rather pointless if literally no one is immortal.

True, blizzard should be thinking very well when they say stuff that mortals go to shadowlands but they don think before they talk and because of this they make big mistakes. Solution is just to get the questions beforehand and THEN answer during the interview with a cheat sheet, but they dont do that.

[derpkitteh]

Elune perhaps, or maybe the Void Lords, but that would be it. God-tier beings beyond the ability of mortals to even harm, who can only really exist in the physical universe through avatars or projections to begin with.

elune is the only mystery really, i think the void lords are killable. they are, after all, weaker than a full fledged titan.

the problem with a void lord is the fact that the void cannot ever be expunged completely. the absence of light in the metaphysical plane on which light and void exist is what creates the void. destroy light, void exists eternally. destroy void, it will always arise again because light can't be everywhere at once.

[Tolfor]

True, blizzard should be thinking very well when they say stuff that mortals go to shadowlands but they don think before they talk and because of this they make big mistakes.

Blizzard never actually said "mortals go to the Shadowlands" in the first place - this entire thread/discussion is predicated on bullet point that uses different phrasing from the actual interviewee. See my other post further up on this page.

[Revamp Man]

Ah yes, another 100D chess by Sylvanas, too bad all the other characters in the history of Warcraft werent able to develop their brains in a way Sylvanas did, that cheeky mastermind.

That's actually not really that smart like she isn't the super Mastermind that blizzard is trying to write her off as because each time they do that they also try to make it believable that she is relatable and not evil when in reality she's just evil and she has been ever since time

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Blizzard never actually said "mortals go to the Shadowlands" in the first place - this entire thread/discussion is predicated on bullet point that uses different phrasing from the actual interviewee. See my other post further up on this page.

Yeah the interviews on the front page take different meaning when you actually wash the interview and don't just read it luckily I already watched the preach interview so I could tell that half of what the page says is pretty off

[Dellis0991]

This is pure madness.

[Shinrael]

No, they wanted to say mortals go to the shadowlands when they die.

Blizzard can't help that many mmo-c posters are too stupid to know what the word mortal means.

Well my point is that Mortals represent Life. Either way, Blizzard's words make a lot of sense imo.

[How dare you]

What makes a demon a demon?