Varian Wrynn VS Grom Hellscream

[Monster Hunter]

Grom has raw strength, but Varian has the agility and skill to evade Grom's attacks.

Speed > strength.

Till you get caught or tierd.

Resiliance and endurance > all. Grind the opponents down.

[tromage2]

Grom, Humans are weak compaired to Orcs.
Both are on top of their race but Orcs are far better in all aspacts then humans.

[funcik]

Cenarius was stronger than Goldrinn.

Not. Read the Chronicles.
It says who was considered the strongest Wild Gods. Cenarius was not among them. Perhaps because he was born later.
But the truth is that Cenarius will destroy "Varian Wrynn+blessed Goldrin's".

[matrix123mko]

Not. Read the Chronicles.
It says who was considered the strongest Wild Gods. Cenarius was not among them. Perhaps because he was born later.
But the truth is that Cenarius will destroy "Varian Wrynn+blessed Goldrin's".

I think it was because he was born later. After all, he is son of Elune herself, not just a talking animal.

[TheRagebear]

Varian.

tl;dr: Watch the fight between Oberyn and the Mountain. Basically that sans the gloating. Raw strength is a joke when daggers kill just as easily as axes.

[Reydan]

Varian.

tl;dr: Watch the fight between Oberyn and the Mountain. Basically that sans the gloating. Raw strength is a joke when daggers kill just as easily as axes.

But Gromm is fast AND strong. He isn't like the Mountain that only has brute strength...

[Syegfryed]

Varian.

tl;dr: Watch the fight between Oberyn and the Mountain. Basically that sans the gloating. Raw strength is a joke when daggers kill just as easily as axes.

Grom is not just raw strength, its something who put him above other orcs, he was agile and use technique, with is stenght

Sadly daggers don't pierce that much orc bodies, as you could see with Saurfang

Varian could not win against Garrosh, he is no match for grom.

[TheRagebear]

But Gromm is fast AND strong. He isn't like the Mountain that only has brute strength...

Grom is not just raw strength, its something who put him above other orcs, he was agile and use technique, with is stenght

Sadly daggers don't pierce that much orc bodies, as you could see with Saurfang

Varian could not win against Garrosh, he is no match for grom.

Is there evidence for Grom being anywhere near as quick or agile as Varian? Let alone Garrosh who himself was a bit of a stumbling mess in that Nagrand cinematic (great as it was to see Thrall get beat down) if we don't blame that on Blizzard's first forays into the HD cinematics they do now. If it's his Blademaster class in Warcraft 3 then I have some unfortunate news for you.

As for his tactical acumen... eh. Perhaps Blizzard was always shit at writing "smart" characters (Except they weren't. Look at Garrosh's planning in his war against the Alliance before he got villain-batted.) but it seems like Grom's leadership was more that he was the strongest and so he lead, doing so from the front inspired the orcs to be as orcs are; violent and numerous. And against humans and races that had never experienced war with orcs it naturally brought his winrate to a level he'd never see if he were alive now.

As for the dagger comment I merely meant that "One hit would kill Varian!" is a dumb statement. There's a reason that swords throughout history grew thinner and longer, and that even in their most optimized form the spear was always used more (beyond cost, anyway.) It doesn't take a very deep stab to kill anyone, and despite their size I doubt an orc's heart or organs are significantly deeper than a humans' are. One hit would realistically kill either of them, and if it comes down to who gets hit first my bet would be on the one who moves faster in armor than the shirtless hulk.*

*if armor in WoW not being worn by Sylvanas was any less consistent than it was in the latter half of Game of Thrones...

[Syegfryed]

Is there evidence for Grom being anywhere near as quick or agile as Varian?

old books, lord of the clans i presume is the one who most talk about him being quickly and slender compared toother orcs

Let alone Garrosh who himself was a bit of a stumbling mess in that Nagrand cinematic (great as it was to see Thrall get beat down) if we don't blame that on Blizzard's first forays into the HD cinematics they do now

what? Grom was more agile than Garrosh by far, and Garrosh keep up even with Varian

If it's his Blademaster class in Warcraft 3 then I have some unfortunate news for you.

he is not one but he look like one, kinda speak for itself

but it seems like Grom's leadership was more that he was the strongest and so he lead, doing so from the front inspired the orcs to be as orcs are; violent and numerous. And against humans and races that had never experienced war with orcs it naturally brought his winrate to a level he'd never see if he were alive now.

you are focusing on wod grom, who may similar are completely different beings, mostly because blizzard new team suck about writing the old orcs, i think only blackhand was better than the MU versions.

Just for the record, he and his clan alone were the only ones to not be caught by the alliance, they were minorty and they always get away, its not due to violence or numbers, and yes humans faced something similar to orcs, Trolls

As for the dagger comment I merely meant that "One hit would kill Varian!" is a dumb statement

it prob would, saurfang throwing axe almost killed the mighty Malfurion.

There's a reason that swords throughout history grew thinner and longer, and that even in their most optimized form the spear was always used more (beyond cost, anyway.) It doesn't take a very deep stab to kill anyone, and despite their size I doubt an orc's heart or organs are significantly deeper than a humans' are. One hit would realistically kill either of them, and if it comes down to who gets hit first my bet would be on the one who moves faster in armor than the shirtless hulk.*

not deeper, but there are way more muscle to protect, and there is difference in bone and muscle density too.

Grom with no armor would move faster than Varian with full armor, Garrosh with his giant shoulders keep up with speed with varian and only lose one time( when varian was rested and with the goldrin bless)

If Garrosh and VArian were even, Grom would completely destroy both, because he had all the package, Strength, speed and technique, him Cairne and Broxxigar are the Trinity of the strongest warriors in wow.

[Yoshingo]

I'd have to give it to Grom I think, I could see him willing to actually die in order to beat Varian and I don't think the opposite is true.

[Lumineus]

But Gromm is fast AND strong.

Not fast enough to dodge a slow AF exploding Pit Lord. In at least two timelines.

[Raven]

Grom is not just raw strength, its something who put him above other orcs, he was agile and use technique, with is stenght

Sadly daggers don't pierce that much orc bodies, as you could see with Saurfang

Varian could not win against Garrosh, he is no match for grom.

If you talk about the Sylvanas fight, you have to remember she wasnt trying to kill him fast, she wanted him to suffer first, he even said so himself.

[TheRagebear]

I'd have to give it to Grom I think, I could see him willing to actually die in order to beat Varian and I don't think the opposite is true.

Laughs in Legion intro

Nevermind that "not fearing death" is one of those warrior tropes that gets old really fast. If not fearing death translates to combat prowess then how is Sylvanas so strong?

[Yoshingo]

Laughs in Legion intro

Nevermind that "not fearing death" is one of those warrior tropes that gets old really fast. If not fearing death translates to combat prowess then how is Sylvanas so strong?

...assuming the op just means a 1v1, which is what it seems, then the Legion intro is irrelevant. Varian sacrificed himself so that all of his forces could flee on the airship.

Also I dont care about your personal feelings about specific tropes. Your last sentence is a complete and utter non-sequitur so I'm not even considering it.

[Reydan]

Not fast enough to dodge a slow AF exploding Pit Lord. In at least two timelines.

Oké that has nothing to do with his abilities in a fight where lorewise it's literally said that Grommash has fast and abrupt reflexes.

[Terongor]

Not fast enough to dodge a slow AF exploding Pit Lord. In at least two timelines.

Explosiom is harder to dodge than two average fel guards.

[tankbug]

Is Varian really more intelligent than Grom? I haven't read much about him, but he seems like just another noble warrior type, not a Dalaran-dude. Is it just based on the archetypes of humans and orcs?

[Syegfryed]

Not fast enough to dodge a slow AF exploding Pit Lord. In at least two timelines.

thats beyond being fast, he was exhausted and didn't expect the thing self explode.

If you talk about the Sylvanas fight, you have to remember she wasnt trying to kill him fast, she wanted him to suffer first, he even said so himself.

her and her assassins.

[Forgottenone]

I'm a firm believer that Varian has been given more time in the light than Grom which is why people are more inclined to vote for Varian. I believe it would be a close fight. Varian and Grom are basically the epitome of their respective races when it comes to physical combat.

Upon watching the Varian death cinematic I would give an edge to Grom, strictly because you see Varian get stabbed by two Felguard and yet when you read about orcs they get slashed, stabbed, and basically fight until they are broken. Watch Ga'nar fighting, an orc jumps from a decent hight and gets him right in the back but he continues fighting. Look up Broxigar, he he had broken ribs, legs crushed, part jaw broken, eye bruised beyond opening, struggled to breath, and he still managed to kill a Felbeast. He also managed in his state to strike an unguarded Sargeras before Sargeras killed him.

So while I know people say Varian I believe Grom has the strength, and endurance to defeat Varian. Especially because those orcs were not infused with the demon blood to the level that Grom was.

[Highelf]

The Fel Reaver was luck and a very powerful magic weapon not skill. He just fell and used his momentum to stab the thing in the head.

Mannaroth was luck. It wasn't a weapon skill, he just jumped in the air and used his momentum to stab the thing in the head.

Grom has proven in both timelines to be a spineless orc with zero good leadership qualities.